[Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces

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boomwolf
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Draft)

Post#19 » Nov 12 2013 06:38

Honestly, I don't see the orca doing much good, not at that price, not without a formation that benefits it.

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Vay
Shas'Ui
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Draft)

Post#20 » Nov 13 2013 09:30

There have been APOC battles where its ability to get my troop from one front to another would have been worth every point(currant cost is much lower then before: Ref IA APOC 2nd Ed). True a formation with it would be really good, I think the magic it brings is in moving my ground forces. We play APOC with a lot more ground forces, so those utility APOC items have more reason to be played. If everyone has just titans on the board, I would leave the Orca at home.

I will keep bringing it to APOC, and adding its data to the Theme Tactica. (I think the fact that I called it theme says more about why I field it so much now :P)
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boomwolf
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Draft)

Post#21 » Nov 13 2013 10:46

Thats nice and all, until you realize that you can deploy enclave units in tau Rapid Insertion Force formation (methinks? probably, after all any marine, even other codices can use SM ones.) and get your crisis suits as troops in formations to show up anywhere, anytime, with more versatility in deployment, and pack a seriously mean punch on the drop. (under the assumption the stealth team somehow lived long enough for the drop XD)

A 400 point of pure transport without any firepower (at least give it some decent AA guns to clear the sky people!) just does not ring my bell. not when we got deepstriking gods of destruction on our side-as troops.

((EDIT: it appears my 400 point claim is out-of-date, and as such does not violate anything. just note, the real number is below that. about 11 fire warriors below.))
Last edited by boomwolf on Nov 21 2013 11:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Vay
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Draft)

Post#22 » Nov 13 2013 10:55

Correction --- points. REF: Which is the most currant -
Image

The Tau can deploy very well across the battle field. The problem comes on a multi-front war, you will need to re-position troop in a timely manner. I think the lower price tag changed my mind. It might for you as well.

We play some complicated battles. Tops of mountain ranges with massive gorges, deep space battles with ship to asteroid combat, and 4 foot by 16 foot long boards. The bigger the play map, the more tactics and maneuver become.

Is it a must? no. But I can see some reason in it. AND ITS AN ORCA!!!
Last edited by Vay on Nov 15 2013 11:27, edited 1 time in total.
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boomwolf
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Draft)

Post#23 » Nov 13 2013 11:06

Wait, did this came out before or after IA3 2nd edition?!
EDIT: defiantly after, IA3 2ED uses SP still.

I've got to take a look, maybe some other relevant info I'm not aware of.
EDIT: well, just (11 firewarriors+1 point) cheaper, nothing else.
Big difference, but I still don't see what it gets done that you cannot achieve by deepstriking suits. (on formation if possible)

For crying out loud, forgeworld put up a ledger of where are the current rules for each model, you put the same thing in 7 books and nobody can follow :\
Last edited by boomwolf on Nov 21 2013 11:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Vay
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Draft)

Post#24 » Nov 13 2013 11:26

IMPERIAL ARMOUR VOLUME THREE SECOND EDITION - THE TAROS CAMPAIGN
Fully Shipped 22/05/2013 (from my account)

Imperial Armour: Apocalypse-This book is available to pre-order now for despatch on Friday 9th August. (I got this one from another player)

So yes, a bit after. Not much else changed for Tau...just the --- point reduction on Orca. probably cause --- points was still too much by a lot.
And I agree, really hurts when you drop FW book price and in 4 months you need to do it again. and again. and again.

(edits: The Orca is cheaper in the currant APOC rules by a quarter)
Last edited by Vay on Nov 15 2013 01:13, edited 3 times in total.
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Kezef
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Draft)

Post#25 » Nov 15 2013 10:56

boomwolf wrote:Thats nice and all, until you realize that you can deploy enclave units in tau Rapid Insertion Force formation (methinks? probably, after all any marine, even other codices can use SM ones.) and get your crisis suits as troops in formations to show up anywhere, anytime, with more versatility in deployment, and pack a seriously mean punch on the drop. (under the assumption the stealth team somehow lived long enough for the drop XD)

A 400 point of pure transport without any firepower (at least give it some decent AA guns to clear the sky people!) just does not ring my bell. not when we got deepstriking gods of destruction on our side-as troops.


A Battlesuit drop is all well and good, something that I enjoy and get allot of mileage out of, but once they have hit the dirt they are no more mobile than any other battlesuit.

Orcas do have the advantage in that they can redeploy forces that have achieved their objectives on one part of the board and could be useful on another.

As for firepower I find that the Orca is one of those units that is often low on the enemy's target list, precisely BECAUSE it has such low firepower, it's just not considered a threat when listed alongside other toys like the Tigershark. If the orca had signifcant firepower, it would be targeted before being able to do it's job.
All warfare is based on deception.

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Vay
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Draft)

Post#26 » Nov 15 2013 11:03

Exactly, on the air raid over the hive city there was not even a single round shot at it. I imagine the cargo could up it as a target, but having another titan on the board makes it more or less invisible.

I owe some updates for troop layouts, know that they are in the works. Production levels for support Exo-Tides has paused the earth caste modifications of the Orca and its compents.

- one update: Minus O'Vesa, the Eight fit in one Orca. Was very interesting to me to find that out.
-- You can sling load O'vesa below the Orca.

- Ke'lshan modification would make sense for turning an Orca into a 107 transport like they did for the XV9's.
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ARC'Thunder
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Update 1)

Post#27 » Nov 15 2013 11:14

I would like to draw everyone's attention to the following:
General Rules regarding GW IP wrote:Never, ever list individual point values for anything.
Listing the sum total of points for a squad is OK, but no item-by-item points breakdowns are ever allowed. ATT has zero tolerance for listing individual point values. Repeat offenders will be subject to administrative procedures. Nothing will get us smacked down faster by GW than by listing individual points values for wargear, unit models and upgrades. They will not hesitate to drop the hammer on us, so we in turn cannot be lax in policing this issue.

Please edit all offending posts ASAP.

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Vay
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Update 1)

Post#28 » Nov 15 2013 11:27

Drone teams report complete, Chaos corruption eliminated.
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CariadocThorne
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Update 1)

Post#29 » Nov 21 2013 04:52

How would sniper drone teams fit into an orca? Being able to drop a whole bunch of them with an ethereal for a couple of turns then extract and redeploy them could be really useful in apoc games.

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Vay
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Update 1)

Post#30 » Nov 21 2013 09:36

Just fine, I think the spotter would have bulky but would have to check. Its a cool idea though on the Whale of Fury thought. Land and deploy 4 teams of Ethereal boosted snipers. 24 inch triple shot, ouch.
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AngryAlbatross
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Update 1)

Post#31 » Nov 21 2013 10:48

Another team the orca might deploy could be one that was more defensive themed.

6 missile sides (in two teams or 6 or 3 teams of 2) = 30 slots

24 Firewarriors (4 6 man squads or 2 teams of 12, one or two could even have emp grenades for taking out av14) = 24 slots

that leaves you 3 slots for hq's, so you could take an ethereal and fireblade, or darkstrider and an ethereal or even shadowsun!

Thats a huge amount of firepower (and points!) to drop down ontop of an objective thats really important.

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boomwolf
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Draft)

Post#32 » Nov 21 2013 11:40

Kezef wrote:
boomwolf wrote:Thats nice and all, until you realize that you can deploy enclave units in tau Rapid Insertion Force formation (methinks? probably, after all any marine, even other codices can use SM ones.) and get your crisis suits as troops in formations to show up anywhere, anytime, with more versatility in deployment, and pack a seriously mean punch on the drop. (under the assumption the stealth team somehow lived long enough for the drop XD)

A 400 point of pure transport without any firepower (at least give it some decent AA guns to clear the sky people!) just does not ring my bell. not when we got deepstriking gods of destruction on our side-as troops.


A Battlesuit drop is all well and good, something that I enjoy and get allot of mileage out of, but once they have hit the dirt they are no more mobile than any other battlesuit.

Orcas do have the advantage in that they can redeploy forces that have achieved their objectives on one part of the board and could be useful on another.

As for firepower I find that the Orca is one of those units that is often low on the enemy's target list, precisely BECAUSE it has such low firepower, it's just not considered a threat when listed alongside other toys like the Tigershark. If the orca had signifcant firepower, it would be targeted before being able to do it's job.



My main problem with the "redeploy" thinking is this:
How often have your apoc game went over turn 3?
That's hardly enough time to deploy the team once, never mind get things done, repack, deploy elsewhere and do another thing.
For that off-chance the game will be long enough for it to matter, I don't think providing another superheavy, and not a very powerful one, for the opponent to kill and gain points is a good plan.

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TheAmbit
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Update 1)

Post#33 » Nov 21 2013 11:45

Our Apocalypse games always finish and have never been halted at turn 3. It really depends on your group and size of your 'apocalypse'. We typically have 3-4 players and 12,000 points total per side (6-8 total players and 24,000 points). And this is with mostly infantry/tanks and limited super heavies and the game runs about 6 hours. So I think it's worth considering that you could redeploy if your group's games a similar.

CariadocThorne
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Posts: 425

Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Draft)

Post#34 » Nov 21 2013 11:50

boomwolf wrote:
Kezef wrote:
boomwolf wrote:Thats nice and all, until you realize that you can deploy enclave units in tau Rapid Insertion Force formation (methinks? probably, after all any marine, even other codices can use SM ones.) and get your crisis suits as troops in formations to show up anywhere, anytime, with more versatility in deployment, and pack a seriously mean punch on the drop. (under the assumption the stealth team somehow lived long enough for the drop XD)

A 400 point of pure transport without any firepower (at least give it some decent AA guns to clear the sky people!) just does not ring my bell. not when we got deepstriking gods of destruction on our side-as troops.


A Battlesuit drop is all well and good, something that I enjoy and get allot of mileage out of, but once they have hit the dirt they are no more mobile than any other battlesuit.

Orcas do have the advantage in that they can redeploy forces that have achieved their objectives on one part of the board and could be useful on another.

As for firepower I find that the Orca is one of those units that is often low on the enemy's target list, precisely BECAUSE it has such low firepower, it's just not considered a threat when listed alongside other toys like the Tigershark. If the orca had signifcant firepower, it would be targeted before being able to do it's job.



My main problem with the "redeploy" thinking is this:
How often have your apoc game went over turn 3?
That's hardly enough time to deploy the team once, never mind get things done, repack, deploy elsewhere and do another thing.
For that off-chance the game will be long enough for it to matter, I don't think providing another superheavy, and not a very powerful one, for the opponent to kill and gain points is a good plan.

Don't know what kind of Apoc games you play but my last one was on a 15' x 15' board (aka: floor) and lasted well over a dozen turns, and took a whole weekend to play. I would have loved to have Orcas available to redeploy my infantry, much faster than 'fishes.

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boomwolf
Shas'La
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Update 1)

Post#35 » Nov 21 2013 06:41

Apperantly we play sizes we cannot manage in times too short then XD
(TBH the random clueless guys keep bogging it down, we really need to try to have a closed game once, see how it goes)

Oh yeah that would do it. I've never played in an 'open' game - that would drive me nuts. - TheAmbit

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Vay
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Update 1)

Post#36 » Dec 13 2013 11:57

We GET Orca as a Lord of War.
(Still taking that in)

Alright, <1000 point game is now all about me flying in with an Orca. I will post latest builds update later.
This has always been the sweet spot for the Orca.
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