[Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces

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CariadocThorne
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Update 1)

Post#37 » Dec 13 2013 01:59

Lol. Deepstrike, deploy 40 odd firewarriors+ethereal, storm of fire everything within 15" to death, re-embark, fly across the board and repeat.

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boomwolf
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Update 1)

Post#38 » Dec 13 2013 02:36

40?
Why so little?

You can have 4 full teams, with 2 drones each and topping it off with an ethreal in that thing!


Though I'm not sure giving the Lord of War buffs to the enemy for a mere Orca is worth it.
I mean, its pretty awesome as a transport, but that IT.
And giving away potential 2 VP, in addition to ethreal one is risky.

I'm not thinking on this as optional before I see a batrep with it.
And a new pack that does not cost an arm and a leg. I bet a cast without all the inner things would be MUCH cheaper. (we should totally petition this)

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Vay
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Update 1)

Post#39 » Dec 13 2013 02:49

I tried that for the Manta, got shot down. You get all parts, or no deal.

I like the excitement on the Orca. Though figuring out what makes the risk worth the reward is going to be key.

ok...

What is our best options?

Option 1: Whale of fury - 57 capactity of ground troop shoot-em up with Ethereal.

Option 2: Taxi Whale - at a low points cost you can put a Titan candy shell on some of your forces and fly them around the battle field. Nids closing in, every one on board!

Option 3: Whale of fury++ - 6 Target Locked XV88 and FWs hope out.

Option 4: Sky shield landing pad + Parked packed Orca

Option 5: Park it - It takes a bit of movement to get around an Orca

Option 6: Fly it at the enemy, let them blow it up point blank range and see what is left standing.
Last edited by Vay on Dec 13 2013 02:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Update 1)

Post#40 » Dec 13 2013 02:57

Can I just point out that you can also bring an SDT instead of the fourth FW team... BS5 marker-lights and a Stealth squad to boost the ethereal's survivability to boot.

With this Orca you can effectively move with impunity around the table removing key units as you please. The spare points can either be barracudas to ensure air superiority, or even deep-striking fusion to deal with heavy armor. One thing is for sure, assault heavy armies are going to be in tears if you show up with this.

The main danger lies in AAA weapons like Quad Guns and the like, so bringing a means of removing enemy AAA is of primary importance to ensure the Orca remains unscathed.

I also want to note that you pretty much want to go second with this. Castle some starting forces around a Aegis with Comms Relay, weather the initial turns, then fly on and destroy. Unless the enemy has no AAA in which case deploy strait away!

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Vay
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces (Update 1)

Post#41 » Dec 13 2013 03:03

Next Battle is now

AX1-0 or Orca, + what we come up with here.

Try a Void shield with 3 stacks. That should keep your forces around for turn 2.
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces

Post#42 » Dec 16 2013 11:50

After a few hours of list crunching I find I have a few issues.

- What should fly in the Orca?

+ the cost of an Orca is only slightly more then 2 kitted out DFish with a lot more transport options.

- Looking at a Escalation type battle field and having troubles not using the AX1-0.

- The Orca turns into a Great troop/sniper transport and get away taxi. But in a 5 turn game on a 6X4 board is that still needed?

I have fielded the Orca a few times, its best moments were flying forces to a new side of the board. A 16X4 board. It never had the threat of being shot down as it was not worth it, in escalation it is very worth it.

- Super heavies do not get Jink. This makes ground and air fire more of a threat.

- I am building for a 2K game. For a 1000, I think the Orca could be a shoe in. The Deathstar meta and Super heavy options are a lot different at that level.

There is also the different roles VS Codex with or with out FE-S. I think each of our Lords of war fit each army differently and at different points levels.

Looking for a sound board I guess from fellow Orca pilots.


Currently going to run in a 2K game Tau Codex:
R'varna
Raven Commander
Riptide (IA)
Tetra

Orca (in Orca below)
Ethereal
2 X FW 6 man teams
1 Drone sniper team

Remora escort

Firebase Cadre (with TL's)

Void Shield Generator (3 Shields)

Concept is an orbital launched Void shield pod impacts the LZ. Heavy fire support deploys near it to provide overwatch. The Orca deploys the objective teams onto the enemy position as the firebase continues to provide fire support.

- I should have enough fire power to kill enemy Escalation forces.

(TAC is my mental goal in all list generation, mixed with Fluff/concept design)
Last edited by Vay on Dec 16 2013 01:47, edited 1 time in total.
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ARC'Thunder
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces

Post#43 » Dec 16 2013 01:05

Vay wrote:- Some of the fire base might also ride in the Orca depending on enemy deployment. The Orca is like a giant reserve bundle.
Elements from the Firebase Support Cadre are not capable or riding inside of transports. Battle-brother allies may not share transports and detachments are considered a type of allied detachment. Truly a shame, I know, but that's the way GW wrote it.

In your current list I feel that it's being under utilized as a transport making it really not worth the investment. I think the Orca is a double-edged sword; it would truly shine when transporting a lot of fire power to the enemy (as per the "Whale of Fury"), however that also means putting a lot of eggs into one 6HP basket in a 2000pt game. Decoy Launchers may help its survivability somewhat, but only by so much.

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Vay
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces

Post#44 » Dec 16 2013 01:46

Your right, was thinking of them as Tau Codex + Tau Codex. Not a cornerstone of the build, was just a thought. The purpose of the list is to update some Battle testing for none APOC use. I also think there is huge limitations to taking an Orca. I also think the only Lord of war worth our time for competitive meta is the AX1-0. But I am going to field test the Orca and Tigershark any ways.

The big thing on the Orca is the price. You can take 3 Dfish with Dpods and about have its price. But you get a lot more abilities and capacity. If you were going to protect your FWs anyways and you like using a cool looking model, why not?
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ARC'Thunder
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces

Post#45 » Dec 16 2013 02:08

If the intention was for someone to take 3 FW teams each with a Devilfish than the Orca could be used as a substitute. But I might still take the Devilfish for the HP, and the ability to use each independently. Like you said, on a 6'x4' table the benefits of the Orca really don't come into play.

Vay wrote:I also think the only Lord of war worth our time for competitive meta is the AX1-0.
Sadly, the only reason for this is the single D weapon it carries. The price and durability of our super-heavies really doesn't make them attractive choices for us. Comparing Tigersharks to Hammerheads in regards to shot output, durability against non-D weapons, and points value really highlights this. However, comparing a Baneblade to the equivalent in Leman Russes is a much closer comparison, and actually makes the Baneblade look like an attractive choice. The one advantage of our supers is general immunity to D blasts and templates.

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Vay
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces

Post#46 » Dec 16 2013 02:14

If the intention was for someone to take 3 FW teams each with a Devilfish than the Orca could be used as a substitute. But I might still take the Devilfish for the HP, and the ability to use each independently. Like you said, on a 6'x4' table the benefits of the Orca really don't come into play.

I very much agree

Sadly, the only reason for this is the single D weapon it carries. The price and durability of our super-heavies really doesn't make them attractive choices for us. Comparing Tigersharks to Hammerheads in regards to shot output, durability against non-D weapons, and points value really highlights this. However, comparing a Baneblade to the equivalent in Leman Russes is a much closer comparison, and actually makes the Baneblade look like an attractive choice. The one advantage of our supers is general immunity to D blasts and templates.

Again right on, that D round is priceless on key targets. Our D weapon being on an air frame is also very helpful. We have less damage output of other Titans, but we have tactical flexibility, shot immunity, and we can hit other super heavy flyers (Space marine / Nids).
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facmanpob
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces

Post#47 » Dec 18 2013 05:13

Vay wrote:The big thing on the Orca is the price. You can take 3 Dfish with Dpods and about have its price. But you get a lot more abilities and capacity. If you were going to protect your FWs anyways and you like using a cool looking model, why not?


A quick question if I may.... as I don't have IA:Apocalypse (yet!)

Is the cost of the Orca in IA3 2nd Edition the same as in IA:Apocalypse, because it sounds like it is cheaper in IA:A?

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Bitterman
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces

Post#48 » Dec 18 2013 05:39

facmanpob wrote:A quick question if I may.... as I don't have IA:Apocalypse (yet!)

Is the cost of the Orca in IA3 2nd Edition the same as in IA:Apocalypse, because it sounds like it is cheaper in IA:A?


It's cheaper in IA:A. I queried this with FW, and they said the price difference would be mentioned in a forthcoming IA3 errata/FAQ, so I don't suppose it's any secret: it's 100 points cheaper.

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facmanpob
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces

Post#49 » Dec 18 2013 06:06

Bitterman wrote:
facmanpob wrote:A quick question if I may.... as I don't have IA:Apocalypse (yet!)

Is the cost of the Orca in IA3 2nd Edition the same as in IA:Apocalypse, because it sounds like it is cheaper in IA:A?


It's cheaper in IA:A. I queried this with FW, and they said the price difference would be mentioned in a forthcoming IA3 errata/FAQ, so I don't suppose it's any secret: it's 100 points cheaper.

Thanks! That is a ridiculous points drop (Edit - in a good way)! I understand now why the Orca is being discussed so seriously as an option.

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boomwolf
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces

Post#50 » Dec 18 2013 07:37

Too bad it costs like a small army all by itself though :P

(money-wise that is)

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facmanpob
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces

Post#51 » Dec 18 2013 07:56

boomwolf wrote:Too bad it costs like a small army all by itself though :P

(money-wise that is)

True... I think my entire planned 2000 point army (including masses of FW stuff) comes to less than the cost of the Orca! :eek:

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CoffeeGrunt
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces

Post#52 » Dec 18 2013 08:23

I just bought IA3 and didn't really wanna buy another £50 book to get the reduced points cost. At the new price I think it'd be a fun list to run some time, I'm already considering ways to scratch build/kitbash such a vehicle. (Thinking Devilfish engines on a box, then details and tweaks from there.)

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Vay
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces

Post#53 » Dec 18 2013 10:20

It is one of the few Super Heavies that we have that I think are cost-effect pretty reasonable.
Formations can not get on it, but every thing else baring allied can.

+ The model is amazing.
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Re: [Theme - Tactica] Orca Deployed Forces

Post#54 » Dec 19 2013 11:59

Ok, well game is tonight-2K. I think I have thought and written down about 12 different lists. I have walked back and forth on going traitor and taking the AX1-0. I have made a few forms of the whale of Fury out of humor. I have switched back and forth from Farsight too Tau over and over. I also feel like for all that effort I have found nothing that makes me feel "safe". I did post some thoughts here that did occur to me (http://advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21587&p=275553#p275553)

Nut and Bolt of what I am thinking of running:

Tau Codex(I just keep coming back with the fact that the Tigershark fits the Farsight team and the Orca fits the Tau better. There is just more synergy.)

The army will have elements:

The anchor - The goal of this force is Titan kill and soften the enemy
Void shield generator (3 shields)
R'varna and Riptides/XV88s form a firebase
Raven Commander

The push - Capture objectives and kill the defense
Orca with FWs and Snipers attack the back field.

The map - I place objectives as far from my fire base as I can. Force my opponent to attack away from the objectives.

Yes I give up +1 initiative and risk the Titan. Eh, that is how this cookie crumbles.
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