How to maximize my and my opponents enjoyment in each game

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Calmsword
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1467

Re: How to maximize my and my opponents enjoyment in each game

Post#11 » Jul 31 2015 05:59

I love playing games with tonnes of terrain- it makes for a better turn out and no one ever walks away thinking that they wasted their time and makes better players who have to make their own opportunities.

I will say I'd like to have more complex cover rules in the future and I think that making the cover save in addition to the armor save is a great way to do that.

Shoot=Cover Save=Save=Wound
~Good Hunting

DominicJ
Shas
Posts: 24

Re: How to maximize my and my opponents enjoyment in each game

Post#12 » Aug 01 2015 12:30

ArttesThePerishable wrote:I'm going to agree fully with Myrdin. Typically if you can help advise your opponent it makes it more fun for them.

Also in line with DominicJ's philosophy you may find interest in looking up "Tau Commando" lists on this site. I have found that style of Tau to be both challenging, and effective, plus fun for both players if done well. It also seems to suit your preference of close up fighting. (so it's possible you've already heard of those tactics, but I thought it was worth a mention in case you haven't)


My Guard didnt do a great deal of "close up fighting", it was nasty.
Tended to deploy a platoon on the board and three demolishers.
Marine type dudes would charge across the board and butcher my deployment zone guys.

I would then deepstrike a platoon of guard in his DZ, another platoon in places to seize objectives (or get in the way, or kill stuff) and a few Sentinals.

People could cross the board and kill me, they just could recross the board and do it again.
There was also a psychological issue, not many people could get their heads around needing to kill 165 men, plus heavy tanks and light walkers.

Or I could drop 110 men right in the face of "gun lines" and run up 3 tanks
I'll MSU everything!!!!

DominicJ
Shas
Posts: 24

Re: How to maximize my and my opponents enjoyment in each game

Post#13 » Aug 05 2015 08:07

My Tau got their first blooding last night, just an 800pt game, I had three people (guy on the other side and the pair next to us) comment on how good my list was.
4 squads of fire warriors, three battle suits, two piranas and a Commander.
I moved every unit every turn pretty much, seized the centre line, CHARGED in to close combat (my commander was fighting a termie, figured I could hit first and kill him)
I'll MSU everything!!!!

Syndathim
Shas
Posts: 48
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Re: How to maximize my and my opponents enjoyment in each game

Post#14 » Aug 06 2015 08:38

Going back to the Opening Post and the key issue of making the game fun for both of you; if you're playing friendly games, point out counters to your opponent afterwards. I find that after each battle my friends and I will sit down and chat about what the other person did wrong and provide constructive criticism. For instance someone took a whole load of Lascannons on devastators so I pointed out that Missile Launchers would be more effective (or possibly Heavy Bolters to chew through exposed firewarriors). I would also point out that deep striking Terminators into a key area is suicide thanks to EWO. Same for flyers that were getting annihilated by entrenched broadsides.

Since the earlier days where my opponent would get a hammering I now face very competitive Marine Armies. We have good games where things are tense and if I start to lose then I field an experimental list to throw my friends off guard (Mech Tau). This means they have interesting tactical choices to consider and makes list building fun.

So my TL/DR:
1) If your opponent is struggling to beat you, provided constructive criticism. Look through their army book with them and point out troop choices that may work effectively against you.
2) Field different armies to keep things fresh.
3) Lots of terrain is always a win for everyone involved.
Never Surrender Dreams.

A.Smiths Blog

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shasocastris
Shas'Vre
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Re: How to maximize my and my opponents enjoyment in each game

Post#15 » Aug 07 2015 10:04

Syndathim wrote:So my TL/DR:
1) If your opponent is struggling to beat you, provided constructive criticism. Look through their army book with them and point out troop choices that may work effectively against you.
2) Field different armies to keep things fresh.
3) Lots of terrain is always a win for everyone involved.

This I can get behind. For me, an enjoyable game is one that was challenging, and I'm all for constructive criticism both after and during a game (both given and received). It makes for an even better game the next time. I've even done this during tournaments, when my opponent was about to do something not as smart.

Cheers!

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Gamgee
Shas
Posts: 88

Re: How to maximize my and my opponents enjoyment in each game

Post#16 » Aug 07 2015 05:59

I once thought as you did. I had a decent list. Then people complained and complained. So I took out more and more things. Now I'm beating them with Firewarrior and Kroot Sniper spam. At some point it doesn't matter how much you try and help the little guys out there just not cut out for this. They will either get better and have fun or will accept they will likely never win or win once once in awhile due to sheer luck than any sort of skill. Nerfing yourself will only go so far. Making them better players will make them happy their whole lives. I don't show mercy, but I do try and improve their game. If they don't want to take advise from me then their fate is their own.

I've had to deal with a few people and even a friend like this once.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7hBZNsPnyg

The reason I don't use my best lists is for if they manage to get better and think they're actually better I haven't showed my full hand. I'm fun like that.

Edit
In the 40k RPG the GM ran (Rogue Trader) no one liked me since I was the new guy. They just didn't like me, but I proved myself quite quickly by showering great rewards and boons on all of them. Even managed to derail the GM's campaign by usurping control of the planet I was protecting and being hailed as a hero for doing it. Well I protect it now and forever. Sometimes a person like me can seem really mean and you have to wonder why you keep us around. Then I start chucking turbo mansions at all of my loyal followers. :) I was the Rogue Trader if that wasn't clear. You don't know what your missing out on in life until you start upping your game. Is my point. They all quite like me now.
Great Strength, Great Strike ~ Shas'o Or'es'ka

DominicJ
Shas
Posts: 24

Re: How to maximize my and my opponents enjoyment in each game

Post#17 » Aug 08 2015 03:36

1) If your opponent is struggling to beat you, provided constructive criticism. Look through their army book with them and point out troop choices that may work effectively against you.
2) Field different armies to keep things fresh.
3) Lots of terrain is always a win for everyone involved.


Two and Three, yes.
I'd be careful with One though.

Even well meant, it can really come off badly, and theres nothing worse than being pounded by a netlister on a terrainless table, and then have said netlister give you a lecture on why you switch to grey knights and run a draigo wing, and a helldrake spam, or a ......
I'll MSU everything!!!!

Syndathim
Shas
Posts: 48
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Re: How to maximize my and my opponents enjoyment in each game

Post#18 » Aug 10 2015 08:44

Thanks for the comment DominicJ - I should have added that I play primarily with three friends. As such any constructive criticism is given a hefty dash of banter but I can totally understand that a total stranger might take offence if you criticise them.
Never Surrender Dreams.

A.Smiths Blog

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materpillar
Shas'La
Posts: 128

Re: How to maximize my and my opponents enjoyment in each game

Post#19 » Aug 10 2015 03:14

I recently played a 2500 point game against two newer players who each brought a very unoptimized 1250 points each. Going into the game all I knew was that they were newer and were playing grey Knights/space marines, each were bringing about 1250 points, and one had a land raider.

Against this I intentionally handicapped myself 300 points, so I brought rather unoptimized 2200ish. I brought a handful of fusion blasters and a single broadside with plasma/HRR as my only ap 1/2/3. Even so I had mostly wrecked their army by turn 3.

This brings me to the following question. If my opponent has only played a handful of games (3-5), how much of a point handicap would even up the game for different point levels (1000/1500/2000)?
----- Akul Contingent -----
Engagement Results 52-16-8

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ShasODerpy
Shas'Ui
Posts: 742

Re: How to maximize my and my opponents enjoyment in each game

Post#20 » Aug 10 2015 03:34

Points are not a good indicator of army effectiveness. Some units are badly overpriced, or undercosted for their purpose.
Experienced player will be familiar with the strenghts/weaknesses of their codex, and prevent taking those units that are overpriced, or do not contribute to the army's strenght (whatever the reason).

Furthermore, playing a 2v1 will often see the advantage shift towards the solo player, as he is building a single force in sync with itself.
The 2 players are forced dual detachments, and will most likely be taking unit's that do not share army buffs etc.

It is difficult to find a proper balance when playing vs new players, fighting a 2v1 makes this even harder.


-Derp
Shas'O 50mm, the Foresighted
WIP Tau

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