KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

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Deepstrike
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#41 » Sep 18 2015 08:30

Emagdnim wrote:I was expecting more random fusion cascade style. So which do we think us better ? The variety of the ion which can put out 3x las cannons shots at 60 or the fusion which pumps out 5 mm shots ?.

It also sounds like you could have one of each arm ?


Personally I would rather keep this thing as far away from close combat as possible, so the ion weapon arms are my choice and you can get 6 X str 7 ap 3 shots too at a much greater range.

I'm wondering if the Fusion cascade will be taking on these rules for the XV-9 in IA 14? (Changing it to be more like a Multi-melta)

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Vay
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#42 » Sep 18 2015 08:33

1) We should have a KX-139 painting competition.
2) Ordered
3) Amazing amount of power for the points, very excited to field it. (AX10 sits in corner crying with the red head tigershark)
Last edited by Vay on Sep 18 2015 08:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Minigiant
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#43 » Sep 18 2015 08:38

Emagdnim wrote:I was expecting more random fusion cascade style. So which do we think us better ? The variety of the ion which can put out 3x las cannons shots at 60 or the fusion which pumps out 5 mm shots ?.

It also sounds like you could have one of each arm ?


Ion Cannons I think are the way to go, will be interesting to see what future arm weapons are released

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Gamgee
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#44 » Sep 18 2015 08:44

Yeah the fusion things are way too short ranged.
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Emagdnim
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#45 » Sep 18 2015 08:47

I'd love some rail arms if they were packing the D rail cannon lol.

I'm hoping the TS gets a boost as I love mine. Just needs a few more hull points and the weapons changing from TL to single and like the manta I'd love to see its burst be long barrelled.

Anyhoo back to thread. I'd be tempted to have one of each arm for flexibility. The ion could remove voids then the D and fusion to do the hurting
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shasocastris
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#46 » Sep 18 2015 08:52

Man this was a glorious thing to wake up to. I'm excited and the rules are excellent. The only thing I'm a bit curious about are the lack of an overcharge option for the ion weapons. Indicator of what's happening with the new TE codex? Or just similar to the Manta, where high-end ion weaponry doesn't get the overcharge rule.

Vector Strike wrote:Underwhelming. Expected at least 3 Strength D Large Blasts and blast options for the arm weapons. The melta one is too short-ranged to work with, while the ion weapon can be done as well by 4 riptides (with longer range and ap2, albeit at 740p minimum).

Maybe? I'm honestly not sure what I expected and I'm not convinced Tau need a plethora of Str D to win. I haven't had it yet and I still do fine against the likes of Eldar and IK. This things firepower is immense, and much more than a standard riptide. Keep in mind that unlike a riptide, this platform can do direct fire *and* blast in the same turn.

One thing I noticed was in the description, it does state explicitly that "It is intended to meet a threat that the Tau Empire has not yet prepared for; the defence of worlds within their growing domain from the counter-expansion forces of other races."

This seems to indicate that the fluff of the Tau is evolving. There was a discussion earlier about how this would be integrated into the Tau forces and this would seem to answer that, at least in a preliminary sense.

As to the lack of supporting fire, I can think of two things. 1) Tau Gargantuan Creatures aren't allowed to have it or 2) It is an indication of what is to come in the new TE book. (This has happened before. Remember targeting arrays on crisis suits? First appeared in IA 3.)

I'm glad people were able to buy this. I don't know when I'll get my hands on one but I want it bad.

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ShasODerpy
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#47 » Sep 18 2015 09:14

Not at all impressed by the ruleset.

Though efficient shooting power, it's just more Str7/8 spam on a faction that has way to many Str7/8 options.
Str 9 Ion option is interesting, and with it being 60' range completely overshadows the Melta-choice. No Get's Hot for a change either.

A single-shot D-Blast? What happened to the tri-barrels?
It'll be next to impossible to miss your target(s) atleast :roll:

I don't see how this is supposed to be able to "engage Titans". Can it even damage them with it's Str8 arm-mounts?
With it's "multi-driver" being a 1-shot D blast/Str8 barrage sounds like you'll be shooting for blobs, rather then single-target superheavies.


-Derp

EDIT:
shasocastris wrote:Maybe? I'm honestly not sure what I expected and I'm not convinced Tau need a plethora of Str D to win. I haven't had it yet and I still do fine against the likes of Eldar and IK. This things firepower is immense, and much more than a standard riptide. Keep in mind that unlike a riptide, this platform can do direct fire *and* blast in the same turn.
I've had some pretty shoddy matches against Eldar and their easy D-acces. ImperialKnights atleast are confined to CloseCombat before it becomes a factor.
That said, I think Tau are heavily lacking on anti-heavy choices. Str8 simply doesn't work against Toughness 8+, and I'm starting to see more, and more ceramite plated vehicles in my meta.
The answer doesn't immedialty have to be D weapons. Let's just say, that HeavyRailRifles being brought down to Str8 feels like a bigger hit with every superheavy release.
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#48 » Sep 18 2015 09:18

I'd love it if ion changed to this style, instead of overcharged blasts.
Assuming we got something else that was a blast. Rail guns maybe getting submunitions ?
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#49 » Sep 18 2015 09:19

So first, it definitely looks like you can take different arms, but at 24", I'm not so sure I'd want to. Getting in melta range means you can only use the concentrated bombardment, and getting there would take so long that I could have done just as much with the coherent beams.

That being said, staying far away means you can't really use the burst cannons or SMS as effectively. A slow walk up, the vanguard of a spear, sounds like a promising tactic that the riptide just couldn't do well enough. It is kind of slow though... unless gargantuan creatures can move more than 6" (don't have my rulebook handy)?

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zenitslav
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#50 » Sep 18 2015 09:26

So I have been looking at the rules for this one and the model and I can't for the life of me figure out where the "Fusion Eradicator" sits on the model, All that I can see is the two Tri-Axis Cannon's and the Pulse ordnance multi-driver. There are also a bunch of sms and burst cannons that does not have any profiles on the rules sheet.

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Kakapo42
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#51 » Sep 18 2015 09:27

Now that it's released I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it.

On the one hand it's a perfectly serviceable model - well, not quite, I still have a few problems with it from an aesthetic standpoint, but I can see potential and I've already identified just how I'd convert it to fit my liking (which would be a fairly easy task in itself - some shifting and modifying of parts here, a little bit of reposing there and I'd be in business). The rules aren't too bad either from what I can see, it might not necessarily be a titan-killer, but it looks like a pretty-decent Knight-buster, able to stand toe-to-toe with the average Imperial Knight and stand a good chance of coming out on top, with less raw power in melee being offset by a better protective shield and more ranged firepower. I'll be interested to see what innovative tactics and combinations members on here come up with as they explore its capabilities further.

On the other hand, I'm not entirely sure I'm sold on its background. The first glimpses of it I saw suggested that it was primarily intended for fighting in extreme environments too harsh for conventional units to effectively operate in, and I could definitely get behind this idea, indeed I suggested something along those lines as a possible explanation some time ago (in essence under this idea it would sort of be a Tau equivalent of the Object 279 experimental tank prototype the Soviets developed in the 1950s). The description on the Forgeworld website suggests they have gone with the somewhat simpler concept of 'direct counter for bigger nastier enemies too much for all the units and weapons currently in use'. I personally find this a little bit boring, and as an Air Caste admiral at heart I found the online description a bit smarting (Our aerospace craft outclassed? Bah! Give my strike craft crews a superheavy target and they'll turn it into a smoking crater inside of 30 rai'kor, air defences or no!). I'm also a bit confused by the description of the pulse ordinance multi-driver, It was always my understanding that the 'pulse' part of pulse weapons came from the plasma pulse bursts they fired - surely using induction fields to propel solid munitions would make these some sort of mass-driver rather than a pulse weapon?

The more I think about it the less sure I am I'll get one. Don't get me wrong, I can definitely appreciate how others can like it, and I'm very happy for those who are pleased with it (and it's always good to see some xenos love from Forgeworld), but more and more I'm thinking it just isn't right for me. As much as I always daydreamed about Tau titan equivalents when I was younger, at the end of the day I've come to really like how the Tau solution to superheavy units in the past was always an asymmetrical one rather than a symmetrical one - defeating the carrier group with a barrage of anti-ship cruise missiles launched from bombers and submarines rather than dukeing it out with another carrier group, to use a Cold War analogy. The more I think about it, I just don't think it fits with the character of my army - my hunter cadre's commander is a very 'grass-roots' character, the sort of military leader who prioritises good communications gear and supplies over prototype superweapons, values small-scale support weapons and equipment and generally thinks there's always an important place for the common infantryman no matter what, and who tends to defeat giant scary things asymmetrically with smart tactics and good leadership rather than sheer brute force. The more I think about it, the more he probably wouldn't see much use for something like the KX-139, and as a storyteller first and a hobbyist second that in-universe thought process is an important one for me. The more I think about it, the more it just isn't my style.

Of course, all that said I can definitely see how it would fit well with other member's armies, and the great thing about the current situation is that both approaches are (on paper at least) viable. Really as long as my trusty bread-and-butter staple units aren't overshadowed too much, I think everything should be just fine. :)
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#52 » Sep 18 2015 09:30

zenitslav wrote:So I have been looking at the rules for this one and the model and I can't for the life of me figure out where the "Fusion Eradicator" sits on the model, All that I can see is the two Tri-Axis Cannon's and the Pulse ordnance multi-driver. There are also a bunch of sms and burst cannons that does not have any profiles on the rules sheet.


Both clearly explained in the rules:

The Tau KX139 Ta’unar Supremacy Armour may exchange either of its tri-axis ion cannon for a fusion eradicator for Free.


Vigilance Defence System
The vigilance defence system comprises two smart missile systems and two twin-linked burst cannon which may be fired normally.

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Das'Kyman
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#53 » Sep 18 2015 09:45

Before everyone writes off the Fusion arms, consider a few things:

Just because it is a Fusion weapon doesn't mean it has to be within 12" to be useful. 24" plus the 12" GC movement is 36" (acceptable for most players, seeing as how everyone uses HYMP broadsides)
It has significantly more shots (66% more) than the focused Ion and only one less than the regular Ion. S8 double taps the majority of infantry units in the game. AP1 makes it better than the regular Ion shots against 2+ armour targets. S8 is also better against anything with a toughness of 6+. Against Imperial Knights (AV13) the fusion strips more HP at 24" and the if the IK is outside of 24" then it cannot assault you next turn anyways.
So it has more shots than the focused Ion, and better S/AP than the regular Ion. Melta, for when Imperial Knights close in. Aside from AB14 targets, the only disadvantage is the max range, which will only be a factor against a target which can threaten the KX-139 at long range. The wraithknight seems like the obvious issue here, especially since you can take two WK for the price of one Ta'unar. However, this suit is so incredibly resilient, even against ranged D attacks, I can't help but wonder if it wouldn't be better to just ignore the WK and kill everything else (that barrage seems custom-built for wiping out Jetbikes and Seerstars.

There is also the psychological effect. An opponent may see the 24" range and decide to put his units out of harms way, when he otherwise would be claiming an objective. Creating a bubble of death makes your opponent at least consider the option of staying outside of it, which in most cases will be a bad idea.

Just my opinion. I am not sure which one I would take, but I don't like to see the Fusion arm dismissed before it has even been sold

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Emagdnim
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#54 » Sep 18 2015 09:51

Also, I'm kinda hoping all Ion goes this way.. over xharge was stupid and too risky and doesnt fit Tau imo. Where as a multishot or solid beamy type would really help vs armour, something tau lack.

It woyld also mean that maybe rail rifles will get the submunition type on the larger cannons ? Sure they wont be s8 ap3 (guessing s4/5 for rifles etc) but no overcharged to worry about and that type is already in the game / fluff.

ATM no one uses it (baring R'varna that has to) because you need every rail weapon to kill armour..however, if ion now goes from say 3x s7 ap3 to say 1x s9 ap2 variable profile, you might not need to always go solid rail shot.

Ion is on everything , from flyers,to suits to tanks and even pathfinders.I really hope this next codex will follow suit but it sounds too good / strong / fluffy to be true
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ShasODerpy
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#55 » Sep 18 2015 12:48

By the way... Toughness 9, 10 wounds. with Barrier shielding and FNP

Just imagine encountering this in a Tau vs Tau match.
As it stands, I cant think of a single way on how to down one of these. (outside of some ridiculous allied choices.)

Melta's wound these on 5's, just think about that for awhile.
Even our strongest weapon, the Hammerhead Railgun wounds on a 3 (not that the single shot would be any better then spamming melta's at it)


Trying not to come across as the "whiny guy", but would you seriously blame anyone for saying "no game" when you bring one of these?

I really, Really hope our new Codex doesn't stray this far into the "go big or go home" idea, or I might see myself just shelving my Tau.


-Derp
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Vay
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#56 » Sep 18 2015 01:16

Bulk fire, out flank, and or evade and capture obj. WK, IK, and what not already stalk my local meta. He is very kill able.

Lead way in my meta, no EWO. So 2-3 DS drop pods land and drop mech grav troops. 36 grav shots later...

Some meta, yes hard to kill. Full out no limit currant meta, not worse then a Wraith Knight.
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Vector Strike
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#57 » Sep 18 2015 01:45

Sent some questions to FW; this was their answer:

Image

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tekkblade
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#58 » Sep 18 2015 01:58

Vay wrote:Bulk fire, out flank, and or evade and capture obj. WK, IK, and what not already stalk my local meta. He is very kill able.

Lead way in my meta, no EWO. So 2-3 DS drop pods land and drop mech grav troops. 36 grav shots later...

Some meta, yes hard to kill. Full out no limit currant meta, not worse then a Wraith Knight.


36 grav shots later is just 6.666667 wounds, and that's assuming the Tau player doesn't bring two full missileside units with EWO. No one puts a big shinny diamond out without some security.

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