KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

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Panzer
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#321 » Oct 14 2016 06:36

CoffeeGrunt wrote:Tbh I never really thought it would make sense to have Rail weapons be a beam. If they're cutting through multiple units they're imparting minimal kinetic force upon each one. You want it to pierce the armour and have the round explode in a storm of interior spalling if you really want to confirm a kill, as modern APFSDS rounds do.

True but that's not how the 40k fluff goes.
40k != reality (obviously)

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CoffeeGrunt
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#322 » Oct 14 2016 06:38

Of course. :P

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shasocastris
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#323 » Oct 14 2016 09:08

I think some field testing of this new weapon, as compared to the pulse weapon, will be required. I see a few things that I like about the design of this weapon.

1) Range. Obviously, in normal 40k, this isn't going to matter, but in Apocalypse, even 72" sometimes feels a little short. 120" is definitely something that will cover most of a 6'x8' board.

2) Blast: This means that against the targets you're likely to aim at, you are probably not going to miss. I think that rule is less of "shoot once" and more of "you won't miss big targets". And of course, wrecking and squad that just arrived by deep strike and didn't have the smarts to run (if you've nothing better to do).

3) AP 1: For those moments when you don't get a six, a better chance of still doing more damage.

4) Mass Induction Targeting: I think this will be a devastating rule. As someone pointed out, this means only a 1/36 chance of failing to do something. And about a 1/3 chance of getting that sweet six.

5) Cluster shells: This may be the most useful aspect of this weapon over the pulse ordnance multi-driver. The weakness of the pulse weapon is that you have to choose which shot you want. WIth this you get both! Individually, they have weaknesses against their counterparts, but the fact that you get to shoot them together I think will show itself to be very powerful.

Last thought: It strikes me that the pulse and rail weapons serve a different purpose. The rail weapon is for one-shotting enemy superheavies (without the need for lots of markerlights like the stormsurge). The pulse weapon is for dealing with deathstars.

More importantly, one can use the rail weapon in the ITC. Bwahaha!

All in all, I'm exited and I'm getting one of these weapons. If only to finally have a mainstay rail weapon back in my army!

Cheers!

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CoffeeGrunt
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#324 » Oct 14 2016 09:14

Using a bit of quick pythagoras, on a 6x8 board you'd have a diagonal of 10 feet, which is the range of this weapon...so it'd be capable of corner-to-corner fire on that board size. :)

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Kael'yn
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#325 » Oct 14 2016 09:43

Too bad it was not a heavy railgun. The blast prevents the taunar to shoot at super heavy fliers and flying GC and with a 3'' blast, could have difficulties to shoot at small apoc units like ctan . I would have preferred a solid shot, maybe with a bs increase if necessary.
But the mass induction rule allow more potential against other super heavies.
The pulse remain more useful against anything and the nexus is not efficient enouh.

Jacket
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#326 » Oct 14 2016 09:45

Why a points increase for the Ta'unar? It's not like it doesn't get eviscerated by grav and other way more powerful stuff. I guess that means every other thing will be further nerfed as well. I actually like the Heavy Railcannnon a lot and it has its uses, but the Pulse Driver is still the go to weapon for the majority of encounters. Then again if my opponent brings a titan I could dedicate the railcannon to taking it down and it still offers good fire support capabilities. *scraps plans to buy more forgeworld*

The downside is the small blast meaning it will need a ton of markerlight support which brings further costs to the weapon. I'm not sure if I want it or not... I even went out of my way to buy a damn drill and magnets and everything just for the heavy railgun array.

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Vector Strike
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#327 » Oct 14 2016 09:54

Jacket wrote:Why a points increase for the Ta'unar? It's not like it doesn't get eviscerated by grav and other way more powerful stuff. I guess that means every other thing will be further nerfed as well. I actually like the Heavy Railcannnon a lot and it has its uses, but the Pulse Driver is still the go to weapon for the majority of encounters. Then again if my opponent brings a titan I could dedicate the railcannon to taking it down and it still offers good fire support capabilities. *scraps plans to buy more forgeworld*

The downside is the small blast meaning it will need a ton of markerlight support which brings further costs to the weapon. I'm not sure if I want it or not...


Because it's too cheap. It has more or less the durability and firepower of a barebones Warhound Titan, which costs 150p more than it.

Jacket
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#328 » Oct 14 2016 09:56

Vector Strike wrote:
Jacket wrote:Why a points increase for the Ta'unar? It's not like it doesn't get eviscerated by grav and other way more powerful stuff. I guess that means every other thing will be further nerfed as well. I actually like the Heavy Railcannnon a lot and it has its uses, but the Pulse Driver is still the go to weapon for the majority of encounters. Then again if my opponent brings a titan I could dedicate the railcannon to taking it down and it still offers good fire support capabilities. *scraps plans to buy more forgeworld*

The downside is the small blast meaning it will need a ton of markerlight support which brings further costs to the weapon. I'm not sure if I want it or not...


Because it's too cheap. It has more or less the durability and firepower of a barebones Warhound Titan, which costs 150p more than it.

Did they say how much they were going to increase it by? With anti-titan loadout Warhound wins most matches against the Ta'unar with its pulse Ordinance Driver. I am bad at mathhammer so I have no idea if the Railcannon will be better or worse for taking one down.

Edit
I just bought one. Haha. I didn't go through all this prep-work with getting my drill and magnets for nothing.

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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#329 » Oct 14 2016 11:03

This weapon is interesting. At first glance, I looked at it and went "Oh, so it's still worse than the Pulse Driver...", but having thought about it more this morning I'm not sure that's true.

Some pros of the POMD:
Has built in ignore cover on the S8 AP3 version
Can D weapon lots of stuff on the 7" D weapon one

Those are two pretty strong arguments for it. On the other hand, the Heavy Rail Cannon, as shasocastris mentioned, is much more specialized. It is both anti-GMC\SHV and anti-infantry. The POMD does anti-infantry better, but if you want to hurt the infantry, you're sacrificing your D weapon. (Stating the obvious, but worth stating). HRC lets you keep damage up on GMC\SHVs that Tau normally have a hard time dealing with (anyone else find it hard to hurt a Wraithknight?) and still suppressing lots of other units.

The way the math works out, 11/36 chance of the "pick your model up", 24/36 standard D3, and 1/36 nothing happens. That is almost the same as "add +1 to the D table result." Just for some perspective on how good the weapon is.

I'm liking it comboed with the fusion arms. That thing is just a hard target monster, that doesn't die. Use the S6 AP4 to pepper things the same way you would with the SMS & burst cannons. It gives it an astounding 8 different guns to fire.

The biggest downside I see to it is the fact that it's a blast weapon, so it can't target invisible things, which means invis WKs are still a hard target to deal with.

Jacket
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#330 » Oct 14 2016 12:20

I think I actually like the Heavy RailCannon Array more than the Pulse Driver. It allows you to fire both the D and Cluster rockets at the same time at different targets. The pulse driver you can only pick one. Granted its barrage mode is stronger but then you don't also get the D shot. The D shot is also basically a 1/3 chance of getting the best result on the table which is insane.

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SinisterSamurai
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#331 » Oct 15 2016 03:07

CoffeeGrunt wrote:Tbh I never really thought it would make sense to have Rail weapons be a beam. If they're cutting through multiple units they're imparting minimal kinetic force upon each one. You want it to pierce the armour and have the round explode in a storm of interior spalling if you really want to confirm a kill, as modern APFSDS rounds do.
Not to mention the nightmare of actually trying to line up multiple targets in battle.

Vector Strike wrote:Pulse > Rail > Nexus
Gonna buy them all, but Pulse still won my heart.

Ah, someone in the Tau Empire facebook community went to Open Day and discovered that IA 14 won't come out this year... :(
Also, Ta'unar will get a points increase

I might have read a different post, or perhaps the same one. I was under the impression that the next HH book would be coming out first, but IA14 is still on track before the end of the year.

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Vector Strike
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#332 » Oct 15 2016 10:37

It was the previous rumor, but this tidbit about IA14 came from someone who was at Open Day. Looks like they want to release the new Titanicus game as soon as possible

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Unusualsuspect
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#333 » Oct 16 2016 12:13

In this discussion comparing the POMD and the HRCA, I've noticed that the better range of the D shot has been considered (important for larger Apocalypse-sized battles, less so for normal-sized battlefiends given the size of the Ta'unar base)... but While being able to fire the Cluster Shells at the same time is a useful ability, its comparatively poor range (36") suggests it won't have quite the same Reach-out-and-touch-someone quality that the POMD's alternative fire has available. It also lacks native Ignores Cover (which for anti-infantry purposes seems like a fairly important element).

For narrative purposes in a centerpiece versus centerpiece battle (which is probably the only place I'd use the thing, come to think of it), I could see the HRCA being slightly more useful in fishing for 6s on the D (so you kill their centerpiece before their centerpiece kills yours), but the larger size of the D blast on the POMD, and the consequent higher accuracy (read: less likelihood of missing) seems like it could make up for that somewhat, while still maintaining dominance against almost all other targets one could imagine.

Then again, maybe that's just me justifying my own purchase, which includes the POMD and dual Ions. :P

Jacket
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#334 » Oct 16 2016 02:44

I've got mine with the POMD currently and the Fusion Eradicators. Mine synergizes much better with the shorter range of the shells on the railgun array since I want to be getting up close and personal. So I very much intend to be getting up closer and shooting everything I can instead of sitting back which makes the HRCA a much better fit for the up close brawling I like to do. If I wanted a more generalist loadout I would take the POMD and either the FE or TAIC depending on opponent.

R.D.
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#335 » Oct 16 2016 08:42

Honestly, if I had cash to burn, I'd consider getting the huge rail cannon just as a battlefield scenery piece to be a Tau anti-orbital gun or something. :)

Grogalmighty
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#336 » Nov 20 2016 03:49

So I just ordered both a nexus and a heavy rail cannon array. I am a madman and I love it.

R.D.
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#337 » Nov 20 2016 08:45

Grogalmighty wrote:So I just ordered both a nexus and a heavy rail cannon array. I am a madman and I love it.


How long is the rail cannon (for when you get if need be?)

Grogalmighty
Shas'Saal
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#338 » Dec 02 2016 12:51

Hey guys! The rail cannon arrived and it looks amazing. The cannon itself, barrel and capacitor is about a good foot long. I am sending it off to the painter who painted my taunar. I will post images when it's done.

Also, it's FSE, so have fun finding out how they got their hands on one (spoiler:they stole it.)

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