KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

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SinisterSamurai
Kor'La
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#331 » Oct 15 2016 03:07

CoffeeGrunt wrote:Tbh I never really thought it would make sense to have Rail weapons be a beam. If they're cutting through multiple units they're imparting minimal kinetic force upon each one. You want it to pierce the armour and have the round explode in a storm of interior spalling if you really want to confirm a kill, as modern APFSDS rounds do.
Not to mention the nightmare of actually trying to line up multiple targets in battle.

Vector Strike wrote:Pulse > Rail > Nexus
Gonna buy them all, but Pulse still won my heart.

Ah, someone in the Tau Empire facebook community went to Open Day and discovered that IA 14 won't come out this year... :(
Also, Ta'unar will get a points increase

I might have read a different post, or perhaps the same one. I was under the impression that the next HH book would be coming out first, but IA14 is still on track before the end of the year.

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Vector Strike
Shas'La
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#332 » Oct 15 2016 10:37

It was the previous rumor, but this tidbit about IA14 came from someone who was at Open Day. Looks like they want to release the new Titanicus game as soon as possible

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Unusualsuspect
Kroot'Ui
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#333 » Oct 16 2016 12:13

In this discussion comparing the POMD and the HRCA, I've noticed that the better range of the D shot has been considered (important for larger Apocalypse-sized battles, less so for normal-sized battlefiends given the size of the Ta'unar base)... but While being able to fire the Cluster Shells at the same time is a useful ability, its comparatively poor range (36") suggests it won't have quite the same Reach-out-and-touch-someone quality that the POMD's alternative fire has available. It also lacks native Ignores Cover (which for anti-infantry purposes seems like a fairly important element).

For narrative purposes in a centerpiece versus centerpiece battle (which is probably the only place I'd use the thing, come to think of it), I could see the HRCA being slightly more useful in fishing for 6s on the D (so you kill their centerpiece before their centerpiece kills yours), but the larger size of the D blast on the POMD, and the consequent higher accuracy (read: less likelihood of missing) seems like it could make up for that somewhat, while still maintaining dominance against almost all other targets one could imagine.

Then again, maybe that's just me justifying my own purchase, which includes the POMD and dual Ions. :P

Jacket
Shas'Saal
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#334 » Oct 16 2016 02:44

I've got mine with the POMD currently and the Fusion Eradicators. Mine synergizes much better with the shorter range of the shells on the railgun array since I want to be getting up close and personal. So I very much intend to be getting up closer and shooting everything I can instead of sitting back which makes the HRCA a much better fit for the up close brawling I like to do. If I wanted a more generalist loadout I would take the POMD and either the FE or TAIC depending on opponent.

R.D.
Shas'La
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#335 » Oct 16 2016 08:42

Honestly, if I had cash to burn, I'd consider getting the huge rail cannon just as a battlefield scenery piece to be a Tau anti-orbital gun or something. :)

Grogalmighty
Shas'Saal
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#336 » Nov 20 2016 03:49

So I just ordered both a nexus and a heavy rail cannon array. I am a madman and I love it.

R.D.
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#337 » Nov 20 2016 08:45

Grogalmighty wrote:So I just ordered both a nexus and a heavy rail cannon array. I am a madman and I love it.


How long is the rail cannon (for when you get if need be?)

Grogalmighty
Shas'Saal
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#338 » Dec 02 2016 12:51

Hey guys! The rail cannon arrived and it looks amazing. The cannon itself, barrel and capacitor is about a good foot long. I am sending it off to the painter who painted my taunar. I will post images when it's done.

Also, it's FSE, so have fun finding out how they got their hands on one (spoiler:they stole it.)

Grogalmighty
Shas'Saal
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#339 » Feb 20 2017 12:17

Image

Image

Image

Image

IT IS DONE

Grogalmighty
Shas'Saal
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#340 » Mar 13 2017 12:27

Gather Around, commanders! I have updated tactical information about this sucker.


Firstly, according to rumors, the Ta'unar will be having a points hike when the new Imp. Armor comes out...And I agree with it 100% after my last battle with it.

I faced an Imp-guard player using the 3-baneblade formation, along with a 4th (stormblade in his HQ slot). All I had on my side for Superheavies was my Supremacy Armor.

In a 4000 point game, the supremacy armor killed a spectacular sum of units. It was equipped with Fusion Eradicators and the Heavy Rail Cannon Array.

Firstly, everyone's complaints about the heavy rail cannon array are unfounded. Out of several battles with it, I only missed once because... i was shooting it at something NOT a superheavy (I shot at a dreadnaught). Remember that your maximum scatter is 8 inches, and most superheavies are bigger than that number. If you miss, the dice gods really hate you, or you are being a cheeky ork and shooting it at odd targets... not that I wouldn't...but still.

The mass induced targetting does horrible things to baneblades...or titans for that matter.. or anything superheavy. you have a 1/3 chance of the Destroyer! result, and that result is what erased the Shadowsword from the table, and the fusion eradicators? out of ten shots I hit five times, but penetrated all five times, three of them were 5's and 6's. ONE fusion eradicator destroyed the Stormblade ALONE

Now, this is not to say the Supremacy armor isn't invincible. It took two rounds of shooting with more lascannons then was reasonable, but it did finally die. The amount of time and effort that went into killing it resulted in the destruction of the other super heavy tanks shortly after simply due to the Riptides and Ghostkeels he had to ignore to kill the Supremacy Armor. What did this tell me?

Firstly, the Supremacy armor is NOT a defensive weapon system with this loadout. You need to move close to get your eradicators in range, and the rail cannon is a *BAD WORD DELETED* beast. The mortars ARE effective even without ignores cover (I have killed plenty with them).

If you are looking to be defensive, you can always swap out the arms for the tri-axis and take the driver, however, depending on your enemy, the missiles WILL be a better bet, especially against swarm armies like orks and bugs. (Trust me, the Nexus is GREAT against orks and bugs. Blind screws them over in ways you cannot imagine.) Consider the Nexus to be our Vulcan Mega-Bolter. It's a swarm killer that has the advantage of being really good against normal vehicles. If you are worried about gargantuan creatures, take the tri-axis, if you are worried about knight titans, take the eradicators.

The munitions driver IS good against elite armies like termies, necrons and marines. Especially armies with the big 'decurion' formations that are all but unkillable without the D. With a massive 7 inch blast D, you can surgically remove them from the table while still having something for super-heavy units.


Comparing this to the Stormsurge is a far more complex game then I thought. The Stormsurge is effectively gun. it's nothing BUT gun. It's a giant gun with more guns attached to more gun. Did I mention gun?

Unlike the Ta'unar, there is only really one effective choice when it comes to weapons, the Driver is far superior to the Blaster. Yeah you can get the D and more shots out of it, but the range is pathetic and nothing should -ever- get that close. If you want the D, you have the missiles for it and those should be more than enough to remove any unwanted target from the board (just be sure to have the marker lights to back it up, you will need them.) You CAN take 3, but at that point you are looking at investing a huge amount of points (and money!) into a unit that WILL NOT MOVE and is a HUGE target. Don't fool yourselves, you will be spending the game defending them, NOT taking the fight to the enemy.

Between the two, I would take the Supremacy armor, simply due to durability and flexibility.

Jacket
Shas'Saal
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#341 » Mar 13 2017 05:59

Excellent battle report. Your making me want to get the nexus and tri axis too for a complete collection. I'm struggling to find the time to get mine done despite starting it months ago I'm just about to be done the pulse ordinance drivers. Still need to do all the other parts and my heavy rail cannon array.

I knew the HRCA was a great weapon in practice. I paired mine with the fusions as well. I knew it would be a close up brawler. Great minds think alike :)

Grogalmighty
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#342 » Mar 16 2017 09:10

People love to complain about the Nexus. They really do, forgetting that the damn thing has blind, and is a st 10 ordnance weapon. Yeah it won't erase titans but it WILL flash-fry mobs, especially nids, orcs and guard.

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Kakapo42
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#343 » Mar 16 2017 09:33

Grogalmighty wrote:People love to complain about the Nexus. They really do, forgetting that the damn thing has blind, and is a st 10 ordnance weapon. Yeah it won't erase titans but it WILL flash-fry mobs, especially nids, orcs and guard.


I think the reason why people tend to gloss over those attributes is that with all the many, many, many S5 shots they can bring to the table, flash frying mobs is something that the Tau don't have any difficulty with - even a simple Firewarrior team can put a serious dent in most swarms of light targets. On the other hand, something the Tau do struggle with is superheavy units, with very few units (and virtually none bellow superheavy class) able to quickly erase a superheavy unit before it can do serious damage, and with the increasing number of such superheavy units being fielded in most areas the priority for armament will generally go towards countering those.

In other words, the Nexus suffers from the same problem that Skyrays did in 5th edition - it's not a bad choice, just somewhat redundant and coming at the opportunity cost of equipment that many people really need from the Ta'unar. You can always shoot a large mob of Gaunts or Boyz or Guardsmen to death with massed pulse and SMS fire, but if you need to delete a Titan then your options are more limited.

That's not to say that the Nexus doesn't have a place - I can see it being a very useful support weapon for battlesuit-heavy lists that feature a large number of plasma rifles and fusion blasters for countering armoured targets, for example, as such a force is likely to lack the weight of fire that other Tau lists can throw around and thus face some difficulty with swarms otherwise, but I can't imagine most Tau players looking at different armaments for their Ta'unar and saying "I don't need something that can eliminate superheavy targets, I need more anti-swarm firepower."
A Shas and a Kor walk into a bar...
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Grogalmighty
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#344 » Mar 17 2017 10:44

As much as I see this argument a lot... I need to disagree. Superheavies are not invincible and we have good solutions for them.

Specifically, the Ghostkeel and Riptide. Fusion collider/Fusion blaster Ghostkeels are amazing, and riptides with fusion blasters, along a ripple fire nova option make them ASTONISHINGLY good at killing superheavies. Six melta shots can destroy a baneblade, ruin a knight titan and cause a LOT of pain to anything bigger. the reason being the beautiful AP1, and a 5+ to cause an additional d3 damage.

Even if I loathe the option, Hammerheads in squadron do just as well, three ST10 ap 1 shots, along with tank hunters makes them a dead-killy option. I would contest that we have more problems with Gargantuan creatures then superheavy vehicles.

In retrospect I think what we have a lacking of are more "Contemporary" anti-tank weapons. We are so used to seeing dedicated anti-armor squads when most of our units are designed to take on multiple target types. We don't have devastator squads or heavy weapons teams. the closest thing we have is the Broadside team, which now has been consigned to squad-mulching or anti-aircraft duty. We are expected to fill in the gaps by ourselves without someone holding our hands. If you want to kill a super-heavy, you need to take the fusionkeels, drop-fusion squads, etc. If something is resistant to melta, you need to find other options like fire warriors with EMP grenades or take some Hammerheads.

Superheavies are, for the most part, overrated. Knight Titans are out-firepowered by a leman-russ team on a regular basis, and even armies of them are high-skill, high risk, high reward armies. The bigger stuff, like Warhounds and up, are rarely encountered but still suffer the same consequences of being chain-reactioned to death.

Personally, I like this limitation to our army. It forces us to think smarter about our choices, and if we want a solid solution, we have to put out 600 points for it. Make no mistake, the Supremacy Armor is a match for the Warhound Titan, and only costs 150 points less for a much harder to kill platform. We can't take turbo-laser destroyers on each arm, but the heavy rail cannon is a FANTASTIC weapon. I would seriously like to see a battle between the two just to see who would win. (I would take the Rail Cannon, one Tri-axis and one eradicator for that fight... those void shields!)

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Panzer
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#345 » Mar 18 2017 04:38

Grogalmighty wrote:Specifically, the Ghostkeel and Riptide. Fusion collider/Fusion blaster Ghostkeels are amazing

Yeaaaaaaaah...no. Fusion Collider are not better than Fusion Blaster and we can get plenty of those for less points elsewhere. They are okay-ish at best but not amazing. I'd bring a bunch of dual FB Crisis for anti-AV14 duty anytime over a Ghostkeel (unless it has weak rear armor of course). :D

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Vector Strike
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#346 » Mar 18 2017 08:29

Good super-heavies/gargantuans will kill Ghostkeels and Riptides like they were nothing. Also, Stomp.
Fusion weaponry is too short-ranged to use on such expensive platforms.

As Panzer said, Crisis is the best melta-totting platform we have. Or, even better, Stormsurge/Taunar to deal with the big ones.

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Unicornsilovethem
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#347 » Mar 18 2017 09:10

The Y'vahra ion gun is brutal against knights and similar. Perhaps not as useful against the very heaviest vehicles, since S8 isn't that good against AV13+, but against AV12 it's amazing.

Jacket
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#348 » Mar 18 2017 11:40

I agree Fusion Colliders are worse than regular ones. The small blast is definitely worse than just having an accurate shot. The Ghostkeel is an excellent upper mid tier unit, but ultimately it is not useful for it's collider. My preferred fusion is still suicide fusion suits and the Ta'unar of course with its secondaries (depending on targets).

Y'vahrah is indeed brutal. It's very nearly a super heavy killer, but falls short of being able to kill the absolute strongest of the units.

I think at this point we have units to take care of super heavies. I would like to see one more option. A hovering aircraft sort of like a Tau version of a helicopter gunship. Tau also need to have some way of dealing with deathstars, which is now our worst threat out their on the field. I think we need a sort of... electronic warfare unit to support us. It would be stealthy, frail, and weakly armed. However it would buff other units around it and another version debuff enemy units. Anyways this last part is pure speculation on my part and off topic just a random musing.

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