News - new version of the Barracuda

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Issendror
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Re: News - new version of the Barracuda

Post#55 » May 14 2016 03:07

Kakapo42 wrote:My Barracuda... my beautiful Barracuda.... what have they done to you... :::(

I hate it. I'm sorry but I just can't stand the redesign. I can't quite put my finger on it, but a combination of the cockpit canopy, oversized fins, skeletal wings and Soulstorm-esque features makes this new version just look wrong to me, and all the options in the world cannot redeem it in my eyes. That it uses the boring old standard burst cannon design just adds insult to injury (although I do completely understand it, as I know for a fact that most if not all of the old Forgeworld burst cannon molds have become irreparably damaged, but I still dearly miss the old massive elongated Forgeworld burst cannons. I always loved how they looked on the Tau aircraft and heavy drones).

It's timing certainly doesn't help, since I'm currently going through something of a crisis with the tabletop hobby. I haven't genuinely enjoyed a single GW release for three years now ...

As far as I'm concerned, this will always be the real Barracuda.



Doesn´t seem to have much of a faction on this thread, but I´m totally with you on that. The new barracuda feels stretched out and fragile. Seems to be the new thing at GW and FW - bulk out the suits and produce horrid flyers. I prefer many of the old designes as well - so dare you lay a finger on the tigersharks and please don`t mutiliate the Orca, give it back to us in one piece and all its glory.

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Bitterman
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Re: News - new version of the Barracuda

Post#56 » May 14 2016 03:16

Ko'Vash wrote:I'm curious to see if that rail weapon will be a Heavy Rail Rifle or a Rail Gun. Honestly, I could see it going either way from a balance perspective. A HRR wouldn't be terrible, considering the benefits of AP 1 and the helpful addition of the CIBs, but obviously a full Rail Gun would be more ideal from a pro-Tau biased perspective. :P


Just like with the Broadsides, an HRR might not be "terrible" but it certainly wouldn't be worth taking when you could take absolutely any of the other options. If you're going to fire a single shot, you want it to hurt. A single anti-tank shot that's weaker than a lascannon has no use for man nor beast - and I'm not sure why we Tau players always talk ourselves down on this. "Oh, I guess S10 might be a bit much for balance" we say, accepting a meagre S8 instead; meanwhile every other army I can think of has at least S9 for their anti-tank weaponry, as well as other ways of taking out tanks (e.g. close combat) which we simply don't have.

Why yes, since you ask, I am still frustrated that my Railsides are completely worthless since 6th Ed...

Put it this way, I'll be magnetising my kit no matter what, but if the rail weapon is only an HRR I can't imagine I'd ever want to use it. Whether the burst weapon is an LBBC or HBC, lots of low-ish strength shots have their place, and synergise well with the BCs. The ion weapon (surely still an Ion Cannon) has flexibility, and synergises well with the CIBs (and TLMP). Why would you ever choose an HRR over either of those options? A proper Railgun, OTOH... it'd be worth taking just for the look on your opponent's face, though if it misses or they successfully jink its one shot is wasted. But at least if that one shot hits and they fail to jink, it will almost certainly do something.

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Panzer
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Re: News - new version of the Barracuda

Post#57 » May 14 2016 03:27

I agree. The thing is, you'd want rail weaponry against high AV targets (e.g. AV12 for flyer). With our average BS and jinking enemies you'd need an average of 6 shots without markerlight support to take even 1 hullpoint with the HRR and still about 4 shots with our S10 Railgun.
Sure if it does take a hullpoint it's likely devastating for the enemy aircraft and making them jink is good on it's own most of the times but you can make them jink with mass "low" strength shooting as well and glancing something to death is still better than having the small chance to take them out with one shot (even though the one time i shot with my railhead after jinking on a swooping stormwolve and wrecked it in one shot felt awesome as hell :D ).

Spacemarines can spam their lascannon fire (S9 AP2 so not much different than our S10 Railgun) with Devastator squads and Razorbacks and we have a hard time fielding a lot of S8 HRR. I'm not even talking about the Railgun we can barely field at all. Imo we as Tau player shouldn't try so hard to make enemy vehicle explode and rather just focus on glancing them to death since that's what we can do best.

Edit: was calculating with BS3 instead of 4. My point still remains though. :P
Last edited by Panzer on May 14 2016 04:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Kakapo42
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Re: News - new version of the Barracuda

Post#58 » May 14 2016 03:39

Issendror wrote:Doesn´t seem to have much of a faction on this thread, but I´m totally with you on that. The new barracuda feels stretched out and fragile. Seems to be the new thing at GW and FW - bulk out the suits and produce horrid flyers. I prefer many of the old designes as well - so dare you lay a finger on the tigersharks and please don`t mutiliate the Orca, give it back to us in one piece and all its glory.


Thanks, I'm glad to see there's at least one other person out there who feels the same way, I was beginning to worry that I might be the only person in the universe who wasn't thrilled by it (which would have been ET: Nagash all over again...), and feeling alone in a crowd is always horrible. Fortunately I think it would be hard to mess up the Orca, since the entire model is basically built around the cargo bay which limits what they can do with the design (although I wouldn't put ruining that magnificent model past the current design team). The Tigersharks are a different story though, and I'll definitely be loosing sleep in the future fearing what they'll do to them...

As far as rules go, I don't think you'll need to worry about the rail-weapon. It looks like it'll be a fully fledged railgun, since it has the exact same muzzle as the Hammerhead railgun (notice the panel lines and parallel sets of holes along the flat areas). I'm not one to condone wishlisting on here (it's against the primers after all), but if I were to hazard a guess at it's rules I reckon it'll probably be the same strength and AP of the railgun, but with a shorter range (notice the shorter barrel length past the 'tubular gubbins') and possibly limited to solid-shot only (although interestingly submunition rounds would probably be more useful for air combat from an out-of-rules perspective).
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Myrdin
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Re: News - new version of the Barracuda

Post#59 » May 14 2016 04:12

Well hopefully its not HRR. If it was a custom Heavy 2 HRR (which I think should have happened when they decided to cut the S by -2 from the original) then it might be useful.
Still hope though, its a proper Rail Gun, and if it could take Sub-munition ammo like our Hammerhead can, that would be really really neat.
Also - this is my big hope - I really hold my fingers crossed for it to maintain its current BS4. For a flyer that one extra BS makes all the difference in the world. Seeing as Y´Vahra has BS4, there is a possibility for them to maintain the current BS of Barracuda MK1 for the MK2 version as well.

I cant wait for the Tau themed IA. Any detailed info on when it could possibly be coming out ?
(Hope for a rewamp of XV9, and the other stuff like Remora Drones and Hammerhead turret options)

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Vector Strike
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Re: News - new version of the Barracuda

Post#60 » May 14 2016 05:56

One new pic, from dakka dakka:

Image

Thomas Ell
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Re: News - new version of the Barracuda

Post#61 » May 14 2016 06:10

Price will be £80, currently looking at the forgeworld brochure st warhammer fest

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Jefffar
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Re: News - new version of the Barracuda

Post#62 » May 14 2016 06:21

There's a bit of a cant to the fins in that picture that wasn't as evident in the earlier pictures.

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El'mo
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Re: News - new version of the Barracuda

Post#63 » May 14 2016 06:27

I like it but not as much as the classic 'cuda although this will not stop me getting 1 or 2 as they are far better looking than the Sun/Razorshark and at £80 it is not much more than the original (if I remember rightly :smile: ).

Thomas Ell
Shas
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Re: News - new version of the Barracuda

Post#64 » May 14 2016 06:32

Also, the new barracuda is very thin, looking at the model at warhammer fest

EDIT: While talking to the designer he described the bit at the back as being a chaff drone, rather than some kind of thruster. Also, this model is extremely magnetizable, like the supremacy suit, the weapon mounts have small holes already in them

Grogalmighty
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Re: News - new version of the Barracuda

Post#65 » May 16 2016 07:17

It looks like the barracuda is going to continue to be our "flying hammerhead" I am willingly to bet dollars to doughnuts that the rail weapon will be a full fledged rail gun (simply looking at the weapon scale between ion cannon and HBC...and yes that is a hbc.

I love how it looks, and how they have updated it. I can't wait to field it.

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Das'Kyman
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Re: News - new version of the Barracuda

Post#66 » May 16 2016 10:09

I am still learning the new Death From the Skies dogfight phase, so perhaps someone who has tried it can enlighten me:

As I am reading it right now, most of the time if you win the paper/scissors/rock game for "Engage" you can move up 12" but that only puts you 24" from the enemy Flyer. For most flyers this isn't a big deal since they have good range on their guns, but the Barracuda carries 18" guns (assuming those are CIB).

So, most of the time, even if you win the "Engage" phase you'll only have your primary weapon, TL missile pod, and seekers (if any). Is this correct? It seems a shame that what looks like our premier fighter can't even use a significant amount of its firepower (which you are most certainly paying for) in a Dogfight.

It might make the CIB upgrade into a point trap where I had assumed it would be a no-brainer upgrade

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Tearphoenix
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Re: News - new version of the Barracuda

Post#67 » May 16 2016 10:33

Thomas Ell wrote:Also, the new barracuda is very thin, looking at the model at warhammer fest

EDIT: While talking to the designer he described the bit at the back as being a chaff drone, rather than some kind of thruster. Also, this model is extremely magnetizable, like the supremacy suit, the weapon mounts have small holes already in them



Does the thickness (or lack thereof) of the model detract from the appearance at all or make it look flimsy? It doesn't seem that way from the pictures, but can never tell.

Thanks for all this info you are providing!

abraxus
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Re: News - new version of the Barracuda

Post#68 » May 16 2016 11:46

Das'Kyman wrote:I am still learning the new Death From the Skies dogfight phase, so perhaps someone who has tried it can enlighten me:

As I am reading it right now, most of the time if you win the paper/scissors/rock game for "Engage" you can move up 12" but that only puts you 24" from the enemy Flyer. For most flyers this isn't a big deal since they have good range on their guns, but the Barracuda carries 18" guns (assuming those are CIB).

So, most of the time, even if you win the "Engage" phase you'll only have your primary weapon, TL missile pod, and seekers (if any). Is this correct? It seems a shame that what looks like our premier fighter can't even use a significant amount of its firepower (which you are most certainly paying for) in a Dogfight.

It might make the CIB upgrade into a point trap where I had assumed it would be a no-brainer upgrade


Those look more like ion rakers (Ghostkeel) to me, but I wasn't at the event to see them first hand.

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Macknight
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Re: News - new version of the Barracuda

Post#69 » May 16 2016 01:28

Das'Kyman wrote:I am still learning the new Death From the Skies dogfight phase, so perhaps someone who has tried it can enlighten me:

As I am reading it right now, most of the time if you win the paper/scissors/rock game for "Engage" you can move up 12" but that only puts you 24" from the enemy Flyer. For most flyers this isn't a big deal since they have good range on their guns, but the Barracuda carries 18" guns (assuming those are CIB).

So, most of the time, even if you win the "Engage" phase you'll only have your primary weapon, TL missile pod, and seekers (if any). Is this correct? It seems a shame that what looks like our premier fighter can't even use a significant amount of its firepower (which you are most certainly paying for) in a Dogfight.

It might make the CIB upgrade into a point trap where I had assumed it would be a no-brainer upgrade


The 18" guns may only be just the drone controlled ones on the wings, the MP is long range, seeker missiles too, main gun as well. Notice the main burst cannon size comparison to the wing ones, its probably the long barrel variant.
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Panzer
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Re: News - new version of the Barracuda

Post#70 » May 16 2016 01:59

Das'Kyman wrote:I am still learning the new Death From the Skies dogfight phase, so perhaps someone who has tried it can enlighten me:

As I am reading it right now, most of the time if you win the paper/scissors/rock game for "Engage" you can move up 12" but that only puts you 24" from the enemy Flyer. For most flyers this isn't a big deal since they have good range on their guns, but the Barracuda carries 18" guns (assuming those are CIB).

So, most of the time, even if you win the "Engage" phase you'll only have your primary weapon, TL missile pod, and seekers (if any). Is this correct? It seems a shame that what looks like our premier fighter can't even use a significant amount of its firepower (which you are most certainly paying for) in a Dogfight.

It might make the CIB upgrade into a point trap where I had assumed it would be a no-brainer upgrade

The main point of the dogfighting phase is to delay your opponents reserve and push your own anyway. If you can destroy one or two enemy flyer in that phase it's awesome (for you at least since the enemy would have payed for models that never come into play) but that's not a given. On the table however 18" on a flyer shouldn't be a problem at all so you wouldn't really waste any points. :)

Jacket
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Re: News - new version of the Barracuda

Post#71 » May 16 2016 04:01

I love how thin it is. This is now the most aerodynamic of all the airplanes and flyers in 40k surpassing the Valkyries/Vendetta vtol in my mind. Even if the rules aren't great I'll grab one and make it my ace Solo Wing Mal'kor.

pilky
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Re: News - new version of the Barracuda

Post#72 » May 16 2016 05:25

I was lucky enough to have a friend head to Warhammer Fest on the Saturday so am now the proud owner of a new Barracuda. So first off, this thing is wonderful to look at in person, it has so much more detail than the original, and looks a lot sleeker. It's also definitely a replacement for the original Barracuda fluff wise.

Image

It's not that much different in size to the previous Barracuda, mostly just the addition of the fins either side

Image

Image

However the thickness of the wings is the biggest difference, they're comparatively tiny (though they do have the missile pods which bulk them up again when attached)

Image

This thing is also one of the most magnetisable kits I've seen Forge World do. To magnetise everything you'll need four 8x2mm (for the main guns), 37 6x2mm (seekers, landing feet, associated covers, missile pods, turrets), six 4x1mm (decoy drone), and possibly twelve 3x1mm (for the turret weapons. They don't look like they need them but the holes are there to fit the magnets).

Image

And finally the weapons. There are no rules but I do have names. The main gun can either be a Heavy Burst Cannon, a Barracuda Ion Cannon, or a Swiftstrike Railgun (and as the pic shows, it is closer in size to the HRR, but not quite the same so maybe S9? Or S8 with some bonus). You have the expected Missile Pods. The turret on the back is a Decoy Drone. And finally, the wing turrets are now a choice of either a Long-barrelled Burst Cannon or a Long-barrelled CIB (I'm guessing it will probably be 36" range, Heavy 4).

Image

Image

If anyone wants any more info or pictures just ask. Tomorrow I'm dropping all my other hobby projects and getting this beauty built.

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