New Barracuda is HERE!

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Redback
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New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#1 » Jul 22 2016 03:38

The New Forgeworld Tau Barracuda AX 5-2 is now available

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Tau- ... rike-Cadre

Rules:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/ ... 0Rules.pdf

Thoughts:
It is a Heavy Support :sad: , just hoping for a decent formation to take it. As Heavy Support is already flooded with good choices

Cyclic Ion blasters and Heavy Burst cannon seems like a good combination

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Panzer
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#2 » Jul 22 2016 03:59

Now that's nice.
So everything with AV10 and without any invulnerable save would die just from the secondary weapons already with average rolls and with the CIBs you still have a very good chance to take some hullpoints from AV11. Add the primary weapons on top of that and there should barely be a flyer exept for the super tanky ones that can survive a Barracuda. :D

Also it doesn't seem the Ion weapons lost their overcharge blast. It also says under Unit Composition "1 Barracuda Multi-role Fighter"...does that mean you can play him as interceptor, fighter and bomber all the same?

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Redback
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#3 » Jul 22 2016 04:05

Panzer wrote:
Also it doesn't seem the Ion weapons lost their overcharge blast. It also says under Unit Composition "1 Barracuda Multi-role Fighter"...does that mean you can play him as interceptor, fighter and bomber all the same?


It has lost the overcharged, as it is not an Ion cannon, it is a Barracuda Ion cannon; that has no blast option

I believe it is a Strike flyer. I don't have the flyer handbook so no idea what that means

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Panzer
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#4 » Jul 22 2016 04:06

Redback wrote:
Panzer wrote:
Also it doesn't seem the Ion weapons lost their overcharge blast. It also says under Unit Composition "1 Barracuda Multi-role Fighter"...does that mean you can play him as interceptor, fighter and bomber all the same?


It has lost the overcharged, as it is not an Ion cannon, it is a Barracuda Ion cannon; that has no blast option

I believe it is a Strike flyer. I don't have the flyer handbook so no idea what that means


Ah you're right. Well but the CIBs seem to still have their overcharge profile since they aren't listed as new weapons in the "Barracuda Special Issue Weapons" section. :P

Jacket
Shas'Saal
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#5 » Jul 22 2016 04:20

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/ ... -Skies.pdf

There you go ladies and gents. We basically get a flyer who can shoot at any target with no down side. :) If there was an emote of Ron Perlman chomping on a cigar I would use it right now. BS 5 when attacking at ground targets. Muahah!

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Redback
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#6 » Jul 22 2016 04:29

Jacket wrote:https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Death-from-the-Skies.pdf

There you go ladies and gents. We basically get a flyer who can shoot at any target with no down side. :) If there was an emote of Ron Perlman chomping on a cigar I would use it right now. BS 5 when attacking at ground targets. Muahah!


For someone who doesnt have Death from the Skies, it doesnt explain it entirely. What is this pursuit, agility thing?

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Panzer
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#7 » Jul 22 2016 04:32

Pursuit is a number of inch you can add to your movement distance and agility is a number you have to be equal or lower when rolling a D6 to be able to make an additional turn with that unit.

Jacket
Shas'Saal
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#8 » Jul 22 2016 04:51

Panzer wrote:Pursuit is a number of inch you can add to your movement distance and agility is a number you have to be equal or lower when rolling a D6 to be able to make an additional turn with that unit.

There is only one thing our fighter can't do. Make an additional turn since it isn't an interceptor. However to make that additional turn you need to pass an agility check. So that is literally the only downside to the Attack-Flyer FW has introduced. If they had given us the default multirole rules we would be firing at sky targets at BS 1 and all sorts of terrible stuff.

We are also fairly fast and maneuverable. So all this combines to possibly put the Barricuda in the top 5 flyers in the game. Possibly even top 3. I would need to see some math hammering done which I'm not good at. It's certainly more cost effective than three broadsides.

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Kakapo42
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#9 » Jul 22 2016 04:54

It's good to see they included the normal Barracuda in the update as well. I still have no desire at all whatsoever for this newer replacement, but if by some miracle I ever get a hold of a pristine untouched original Barracuda then I might get some use out of it yet.
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Kael'yn
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#10 » Jul 22 2016 05:09

Finally it lands on our planet.
Points are a steal IMHO compared to our other codex flyers. But made it appealing in our current choices (Hammerhead is the one that will suffer from the new 'cuda in the HS choices). Too bad it is not a FA choice, but with its weapon load, it hardly fit in FA.

Stats are good. Same than our codex flyers, but with +1 BS (I don't know much about DFTS stats).

Defense: with a Invulnerable 6+ and 5+ against hits... a little bit too much on this model, but helps mitigating the AV11/11/10, making it closer to an AV12/12/11 flyer below 200 pts. Add to this a +1 cover save with jink (saves a Dpod, but Dpod works even without jinking)

Offense: No penalties firing sky and ground ? Whoa ! (remember that firing from above make shot hits the side armor, so most ground targets are at best AV12, because few have AV13/14 on side)
Against flyers or anti-grav, the auto targetting all-around weapons are nice too (you can shot frontal, and the turn after shot the unprotected rear side).
The main weapon are a little short ranged, save from the ion, but with the flyer movement, nobody cares about shot distance outside of Apoc games. I would go for the Ion most of time, but the HBC seems shooty enough to take down hardened targets. Railgun is situationnal, but deadly against flyers (none I remember are AV13 or more, except for super heavy) and ground vehicle (firing from above).

Secondary weapons: LLBC ? how nice instead of BC ! Replacing them by CIB may the way to go against armored ground target to add to the MP fire, but for skyfire and mass infantry, they seems more efficient (FMC and low AV flyers with 12 S5 shots on them ? danger!)

The four Seekers are to be bought. A little downer here, but the new 'cuda rocks even without them (and we have other way to put Seekers at the same cost everywhere, like devilfishes, piranha, ...).

Jacket
Shas'Saal
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#11 » Jul 22 2016 05:17

Don't forget the twin linked missile pod. This model looks so sick. I have to get two after I'm done my Ta'unar. As well as a R'varna. Maybe a trio of XV9.

I would go with all Ion. Which would basically make it better than a 3 HYMP crisis team by a mile. This model might even be good enough to see ITC play if players can find a way to fit it into a list.

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Myrdin
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#12 » Jul 22 2016 06:58

The model is nice and the rules not bad actually, pricing is good etc, etc. There is one thing that is mind boggling though .

Heavy Support

..... Is all I am gonna say about this.

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boomwolf
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#13 » Jul 22 2016 07:21

Well, lets see here, when you compare the cuddas you net the following changes from the "light cudda" to the 'heavy cudda"



Negatives:
45 point investment
Transition from "empty" FA slot (as markers are gotten from formations these days) to contested HS slot.


Positives: gotta split it to catagories because these are many small things.
Defensive:
+1 HP (much needed breathing room)
The shield (6+ invul against pens, 5+ invul against glances, doesn't sound like much on a jet that is likely to jink anyway due to Agile USR)

Offensive:
Strafing run
Burst cannons upgraded to Long-Barrel Burst Cannons (50% additional output from them, and better range. cool.)

Utility:
LBBC can be upgraded to CIBs for 5 points each (I highly question the value here, the CIBS are worth more than 5 over BC on suits, but over a LBBC? not sure its even an upgrade any more. CIB is indeed identical or superior against all but T5 or lower targets that do not have a 4+ save, but the range difference exists, and the CIB's advantage is never big)
May take free HBC instead of IC. (again, not sure I'd want to. the HBC is indeed better against everything except 3+ save or AV13, but 3+ saves is exactly where FMCs are. and I've got issues with that point-blank range.)
May take the swiftstrike railgun for 20. (flying railgun, now that's something!. unfortunatly, its only really better than the "free" main guns against 2+ saves, AV13 and T9. non are your desired targets. I deem this "never worth")

Everything else is identical.


So, overall, 45 points "upgrade" over the "light" cudda, is it worth it?

I'd probably stick burst-ion configuration anyway. so I paid 45 points and a "better" slot in order to gain BC->LBBC, strafing run, 1 HP and the shield. how do they value?
I value the shield at 25 points. 50% increased "wounds" is worth about 20% of the model's value.
Strafing run is +1BS against ground targets. its not as if we are lacking in ways to boost anti-ground BS. 5 points is pushing it.
x2 BC->LBBC, we are netting 4 more S5AP5 shots, and longer operation ranges. would I agree to pay 10 points for each gun upgraded this way.
The shield is so minor and insignificant it only ever triggers against things that ignore cover due to Agile encouraging jink, and even than rarely. 5 points, and that's pushing it.

So, I pay 45 points for upgrades I deem worthy to pay 55 for as a "package deal". not bad overall if I can afford the HS slots.
Actually, well done FW, making an alternative without either one being clearly superior to the other.

And it also unlocks an alternate setup-CIBs and HBC to have a "flying ram" of sorts. mere 18" full power range, but god save you if you are on the receiving end of this. (AV 10 is statistically dead even with jink, AV11 close call even with jink, AV12 takes almost half its HP down even with jink and close call without, if AV13 jets were a thing it would be bad, but there are none I am aware of. As for T targets, won't be great against FMCs, but if you got 4+ or worse, you are getting hammered)



As for the HS transition.
Actually, I'm not even mad. that's potentially an UPSIDE.
After all, I mostly bring a CAD along my formation in order to have room for my tetras, so my FA is taken.
But if the jets are HS, I can bring along a CAD to bring both the tetras, and some jets. win for everyone!

And the "strike cadre" deal suggest an incoming formation as well.




With costs DOUBLE that of a shark however, I'm not buying one. may be converting one, but not buying. despite how amazing it looks.



On relevant news-remoras were too designated as strike-fighters. with DFTS rules active (and they might become standard-issue come 8th), so they might be worth hanging on to.

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Agentarrow
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#14 » Jul 22 2016 07:25

Well... Sorry wallet, I know I said we'd take a break, but I have to go back on my word. Now whether to buy one, or two.

Kakapo42 wrote:It's good to see they included the normal Barracuda in the update as well. I still have no desire at all whatsoever for this newer replacement, but if by some miracle I ever get a hold of a pristine untouched original Barracuda then I might get some use out of it yet.

Keep an eye on eBay. I have seen NIB 'Cudas pop up there before.

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Redback
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#15 » Jul 22 2016 07:31

Where are people seeing updated rules for the old version?

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boomwolf
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#16 » Jul 22 2016 07:49

Imperial Armour Death from the Skies Update in the forgeworld downloads section.

No new profile or anything, just added information to accord to the DFTS rules.

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Agentarrow
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#17 » Jul 22 2016 07:58

Redback wrote:Where are people seeing updated rules for the old version?


The rules for the old version are not changed, these new rules just call out the AX-5-2 as a separate aircraft, rather than an update to the original rules.

Edit: They did get a slight pursuit/agility update in the Death from the Skies update. See below:

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Vector Strike
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#18 » Jul 22 2016 08:26

The DftS FW update doc (https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/ ... -Skies.pdf) has the update Agility/Pursuit and Role for old Barracuda and Remora Drone Fighters. As tradition commands, the FW flyers are light-years ahead of codex ones.

I just want some formations/squadrons with both Barracuda types. Also, being HS is pretty good.

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