New Barracuda is HERE!

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Dal'yth Shas'len'ra
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#31 » Jul 22 2016 05:57

I wasn't planning on getting one of these despite how cool I thought the model looked, but with those rules, wow...

Cyclic ion blasters that ignore jink saves, say good-bye to your flyers and skimmers, if they let it get that close. For that amount of points it will probably knock hammerheads out of the CAD(for some people at least) since it can take a short range rail-gun, and it would end up costing about as much as a HH with Longstrike. Still not sure if I'm going to get one, ~$105 U.S. dollars is not a low price and I have a backlog on models to paint.

An Ion load-out could probably be very threatening to most flyers/FMC's no cover from the Ion Blasters, so 4+ save FMC's are in trouble, and almost all flyers, the Cannon would force better armored FMC's to jink. Then there's still the twin-linked missile pod, I can't see many flyers surviving that.

Edit: Does the Agile flyer rule allow a 2+ Jink with a disruption pod? So if the Agile flyer rule increases the jink to a 3+ does a disruption pod then increase it to a 2+, or a soon as the save goes to 2+ does the Agile flyer rule stop providing its benefit, thus making it a 3+ again?

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Quartz
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#32 » Jul 22 2016 07:42

I guess it depends on which order you apply the saves, if it has Dpod applied first, jink then +1 to maximum of 3+ then it wouldn't be allowed as it would be 3+ and agile so still 3+ but if you said it has jink with agile so 3+ then the effects of the Dpod Come in then yes it could be 2+...

definitely a conundrum, anyone else got any ideas?
We gave them a chance at the greater good, now they die

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shasocastris
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#33 » Jul 22 2016 10:55

Quartz wrote:I guess it depends on which order you apply the saves, if it has Dpod applied first, jink then +1 to maximum of 3+ then it wouldn't be allowed as it would be 3+ and agile so still 3+ but if you said it has jink with agile so 3+ then the effects of the Dpod Come in then yes it could be 2+...

definitely a conundrum, anyone else got any ideas?


Well, ordering questions are determined by whose turn it is, soo.... Since we tend to jink in the opponent's phase, they get to determine what is applied first.

Cheers!

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boomwolf
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#34 » Jul 23 2016 02:17

Quartz wrote:I guess it depends on which order you apply the saves, if it has Dpod applied first, jink then +1 to maximum of 3+ then it wouldn't be allowed as it would be 3+ and agile so still 3+ but if you said it has jink with agile so 3+ then the effects of the Dpod Come in then yes it could be 2+...

definitely a conundrum, anyone else got any ideas?



No conundrum. it won't get you to a 2+

Agile says it works up to a 3+, therefor if the total result is more than a 3+, agile ceases to function. there is no "order" to saves.

Same deal with Mark of Tzeentch. nothing new.

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Kael'yn
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#35 » Jul 23 2016 03:59

After running some math:

CIB vs LBBC:
- CIB are better against AV11 / T7 or better.
- Equality against AV10 / T6 (average 1HP / 0.44 wound)
- LBBC are better in other cases (against anything that allows saves for both).
The greater range of LBBC helps it to be better but CIB are the way to go if you plan using the Cuda against vehicles.

Main weapon:
Vehicles
-HBC is better against AV10-11 over Ion (2.00 HP vs 1.33 HP and 1.33 HP vs 1.00 HP). Railgun is behind (0.67 HP in both case).
-Equality on AV12 for HBC and Ion (average 0.67 HP). Railgun is a little behind (0.56 HP)
-Railgun is better on AV13 than Ion (avg 0.44 HP vs 0.33 HP), HBC useless.
-HBC does not deal a lot of penetrating hits and potential damages, unlike Railgun and Ion
Against FMC (T6/3+):
- The Ion is twice better than HBC (avg 1.33 W vs 0.67 W), Railgun is third (0.56 W).
- With cover or invulnerable saves on FMC, HBC and Ion are equal at a 4+ save, HBC is better with a 3+ or better save, but not by a great number (0.67 W vs 0.44 W).
So my choice would be the Ion on most cases, because even if it deals less HP on low AV, the secondary damages can weaken the target too. And against FMC, the shooting results are better. The longest range is only a bonus here.

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nic
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#36 » Jul 23 2016 04:39

So we have a really good flyer on our hands. (OK, actually we have 3 as the original Barracuda is still good as is the Remora)

It can take Vehicle Battle Systems and I think some of them are worth a look. Some are useless on the new Barracuda so lets get those out of the way:
Sensor Spines
Flechette Discharger
Disruption Pod. This last one gets left on the shelf because of the combined effects of the Dispersion Shield and Agile Flyer rule - it will almost never provide any bonus (OK, when jinking against shooting with an Auspex or equivalent it does).

The ones that might be some use:
Advanced Targeting System - none of the weapon loads make it an ideal sniper platform but the sheer volume of fire means that Precision Hits will happen. A bit pricey for what you get in my opinion.

Blacksun Filter - night fighting is most common on the turn when your flyer is sitting in reserve. Even so at that cost its a steal if you have a point spare

Decoy Launchers - Cheap enough yet will rarely be useful except when facing other Tau. If I have the points sitting around unused then maybe.

Point Defence Targeting Relay - if you are taking LBBC then this might be worth the points. It only takes one failed armour save for this to make its points back.

Automated Repair System - no single weapon on this airframe is really that critical. I would skip it.

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boomwolf
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#37 » Jul 23 2016 05:43

PDTR won't really trigger.

Being a flyer you can't be charged at anyway, and being high up and having to move too much means your odds of actually being in supporting fire range is extremely low.

So far I found no reason to invest in any upgrades for the barracuda. Except maybe the CiBs

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AEIOUMadden
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#38 » Jul 23 2016 06:36

Anyone considering or think it's possible to use this without DFTS supplement rules?

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Vector Strike
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#39 » Jul 23 2016 06:46

Space Marines have good AA with Interceptor (Stalkers)

R.D.
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#40 » Jul 23 2016 06:56

AEIOUMadden wrote:Anyone considering or think it's possible to use this without DFTS supplement rules?


Well, yeah. Just ignore the supplement stuff and use it like any other flyer. Basic stats are still there.

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boomwolf
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#41 » Jul 23 2016 07:28

AEIOUMadden wrote:Anyone considering or think it's possible to use this without DFTS supplement rules?



Considering it's designation's rules are pretty much "just like before DFTS planes", its actually one and the same to consider it in each.

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SinisterSamurai
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#42 » Jul 23 2016 03:30

Huh. I thought the rear disc was labeled as a Chaff Drone. I don't see any reference to that in the flavor or rules. Must be a dispersion shield?

Jacket
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#43 » Jul 23 2016 03:45

SinisterSamurai wrote:Huh. I thought the rear disc was labeled as a Chaff Drone. I don't see any reference to that in the flavor or rules. Must be a dispersion shield?

Ask FW about it. Maybe it will be in the rulebook?

Thomas Ell
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#44 » Jul 23 2016 04:53

SinisterSamurai wrote:Huh. I thought the rear disc was labeled as a Chaff Drone. I don't see any reference to that in the flavor or rules. Must be a dispersion shield?


That's definitely what it was called by the designer

Jacket
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#45 » Jul 23 2016 08:10

There is also text that says long barreled CIB's as well. Should definitely ask them.

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boomwolf
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#46 » Jul 24 2016 02:53

Jacket wrote:There is also text that says long barreled CIB's as well. Should definitely ask them.


You are like the tenth person I saw saying this, despite the text does not in any point says "Long barreled cyclic ion blaster", at all.

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Panzer
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#47 » Jul 24 2016 04:27

boomwolf wrote:
Jacket wrote:There is also text that says long barreled CIB's as well. Should definitely ask them.


You are like the tenth person I saw saying this, despite the text does not in any point says "Long barreled cyclic ion blaster", at all.

It does though.

Image

Jacket
Shas'Saal
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Re: New Barracuda is HERE!

Post#48 » Jul 24 2016 04:37

Oh definitely knew it said LB CIB's. I just wasn't sure where I seen it. Maybe if ten people tell you something it might be worth investigating in the future. Thanks panzer.

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