XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

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halogod786
Shas'Saal
Posts: 41

XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#1 » Jul 24 2016 04:11

Hello Commanders

Today I'm going to share my knowledge and my experiences with the experimental XV-109 (flametide)
I'm talking with experience by going to many tournaments in the ITC format and as of now I'm the 12th best tau player in the ITC and 86th best player overall.

Let's start talking about what is this suit. The Flametide is a formidable and feared warmachine amongst the the other races. It's very fast and by fast I mean, The look on your enemy's face when you just move this monstrosity across the board into his deployment zone and destroy his precious imperial knight Turn 1. Or telling him that your going to charge that farseer after moving the swoop jump of 24 inches. In a competitive meta where spacemarines spam Grav or when Eldar spam D-artillery. We must adapt we must survive. These guys are key to that survival.

Offensive capabilities.
The flametide is meant for danger close engagements. The range of the weapons are really short but effective the ability to hurt a vehicle on a 2 or higher for every hit it causes and and the flamer with a wounding MEQ or TEQ on anything but a one and because it's a flame bikes are pretty much toast as well. As for its CQC ability a against battle Compony this is your go to guy. Flame the squad try so that you don't kill the whole squad entirely because believe me he can wipe multiple squads of MEQ like they were not there. But keeping him in combat with a marine squad on his turn where he can't shoot at you with grav and out of a 5 man squad they will lose combat and be wiped on his turn. Rinse wash repeat.

Defensive capabilitys being the same stats of a riptide is tough already. With all the same loadouts as you should be doing he can be a nightmare. If running farsight use the ECR as much as you can it will save your life. And CSI he also comes with a better invul save. But with one less wound compared to a riptide. And if a MEQ ever charges you let him and watch his tears roll down his face with your
2D3 flame wall.

My usual list fills the fast attack slots with 2 or 3 of them. But ALWAYS take 2. one is just to weak and will be a primary target.

Doctorines: kyune and Mont'ka
This is both a alpha strike or beta strike unit he is too fast to be out of range of anything. Making him the best killing blow unit out there. You can also bait a unsuspecting enemy with some troops or commander watch him fall into the trap.

I'll leave a link below to forgeworlds site for his rules. Sorry about talking so indirect this is my first post on ATT and trying to respect the rules the best I can

GOOD LUCK COMMANDERS :fear:

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/ ... YVahra.pdf

Discalimer: any rules I state are specific to the XV-109 and not to any other unit in the game the rules are provided by forge world and is available to the public for free. I'm simply doing a review and commenting on what the applications are.

Jacket
Shas'Saal
Posts: 373

Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#2 » Jul 24 2016 09:46

My IG friend is terrified of my 109. To the point its a one hit kill to any unit he has. How do they fare against casual swarm lists? My other friend plays a casual Tyranids list with only a single flying tyrant. I never brought it to fight him. Would it be any good against that type of army?

halogod786
Shas'Saal
Posts: 41

Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#3 » Jul 24 2016 10:41

Jacket wrote:My IG friend is terrified of my 109. To the point its a one hit kill to any unit he has. How do they fare against casual swarm lists? My other friend plays a casual Tyranids list with only a single flying tyrant. I never brought it to fight him. Would it be any good against that type of army?


Against swarms they are excellent because anything that is under that template gets hit twice hence its profile. But you risk 2 gets hot rolls for example. Let's say a in your case IG blob squad is hiding in a ruin. You jump your flametide within flamer distance. And let's say you hit 6 IG troops you take the gets hot roll and if you pass you roll 12 dice this flamer is good enough to toast TEQ's so you follow any normal rules of the flamer they just die. In the event you have a survivor charge him make him fail a fear or leadership test and squish.

So for tyranids you can fit 12 bugs under that template so to awnser your question yes it's very VERY good against tyranids.

The hive tyrant falls down to rate of fire. If you run a riptide wing I would not be worried about it. Just make sure you bring a tearcup and if your fighting that army's warriors the. Shoot them with the ion gun. It will double them out being the same toughness as MEQ

Jacket
Shas'Saal
Posts: 373

Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#4 » Jul 25 2016 12:39

halogod786 wrote:
Jacket wrote:My IG friend is terrified of my 109. To the point its a one hit kill to any unit he has. How do they fare against casual swarm lists? My other friend plays a casual Tyranids list with only a single flying tyrant. I never brought it to fight him. Would it be any good against that type of army?


Against swarms they are excellent because anything that is under that template gets hit twice hence its profile. But you risk 2 gets hot rolls for example. Let's say a in your case IG blob squad is hiding in a ruin. You jump your flametide within flamer distance. And let's say you hit 6 IG troops you take the gets hot roll and if you pass you roll 12 dice this flamer is good enough to toast TEQ's so you follow any normal rules of the flamer they just die. In the event you have a survivor charge him make him fail a fear or leadership test and squish.

So for tyranids you can fit 12 bugs under that template so to awnser your question yes it's very VERY good against tyranids.

The hive tyrant falls down to rate of fire. If you run a riptide wing I would not be worried about it. Just make sure you bring a tearcup and if your fighting that army's warriors the. Shoot them with the ion gun. It will double them out being the same toughness as MEQ

I limit myself to one Riptide and Y'vaharah on occasion. I can't even bring my Stormsurge anymore. Haven't lost in 20 games now and amongst my friends have a 90% win rate. I beat them even with Kroot and a single Riptide and just sub par armies. I even won a game where I took a team of three rail broadsides and won on points.

My competition is pretty paltry and they've tried anything from tons of cover to line of site blocking and it never matters to me. Due to how isolated I am getting to regular events int own is out of the question. So I'm stuck with the painting and modeling side of the hobby. I still like to theory craft armies and lists though since its as close as I can get to a game.

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Raverrn
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 156

Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#5 » Jul 25 2016 03:33

Since when are Kroot and Riptides 'sub-par'?

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materpillar
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 156

Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#6 » Jul 25 2016 06:19

Raverrn wrote:Since when are Kroot and Riptides 'sub-par'?

Just depends on your perspective. An army with one riptide and some kroot is very subpar when compared to a riptide wing and duel stormsurges.

Jacket wrote:My competition is pretty paltry and they've tried anything from tons of cover to line of site blocking and it never matters to me. Due to how isolated I am getting to regular events int own is out of the question. So I'm stuck with the painting and modeling side of the hobby. I still like to theory craft armies and lists though since its as close as I can get to a game.

Have you tried just using a burst-tide (at least against marines and armies with a 3+)? I've found its offensive output to be more manigable for much more casual opponents.

I've ran a pair of the XV-109s against more casual opponents and the results are not pretty. It excels at mulching terminators and land raiders. If your opponents rely on those two units as the backbone of their army they won't enjoy playing against this riptide at all.

halogod786 wrote:if running farsight use the ECR as much as you can it will save your life

I assume you're talking about the earth caste pilot array right? Due note that with the new (draft) FAQ rolling gets hot for blasts (and thus I assume templates) isn't a to hit roll, thus you can't use the earth caste array to reroll a 1 you'd roll on your gets hot check for your flamers.
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Unicornsilovethem
Shas'Saal
Posts: 278

Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#7 » Jul 25 2016 08:08

halogod786 wrote:And if a MEQ ever charges you let him and watch his tears roll down his face with your
2D3 flame wall.

I don't think that's correct. BRB states that template weapons inflict D3 hits in Overwatch, not D3 per number of shots it usually has.

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Raverrn
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 156

Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#8 » Jul 25 2016 08:50

Unicornsilovethem wrote:
halogod786 wrote:And if a MEQ ever charges you let him and watch his tears roll down his face with your
2D3 flame wall.

I don't think that's correct. BRB states that template weapons inflict D3 hits in Overwatch, not D3 per number of shots it usually has.

This is correct.

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materpillar
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 156

Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#9 » Jul 25 2016 09:16

Unicornsilovethem wrote:
halogod786 wrote:And if a MEQ ever charges you let him and watch his tears roll down his face with your
2D3 flame wall.

I don't think that's correct. BRB states that template weapons inflict D3 hits in Overwatch, not D3 per number of shots it usually has.


Assuming you're using the new FAQs, it is correct

First Draft FAQ wrote:Blast Markers and Templates
...

Q: In the case of a template weapon that fires two or more times (such as the Blood Angels’ frag cannon), do they still only inflict D3 hits when firing Overwatch, or D3 hits per number of shots in the weapon profile?
A: D3 hits per number of shots in the weapon’s profile.

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Unicornsilovethem
Shas'Saal
Posts: 278

Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#10 » Jul 25 2016 09:17

materpillar wrote:
Unicornsilovethem wrote:
halogod786 wrote:And if a MEQ ever charges you let him and watch his tears roll down his face with your
2D3 flame wall.

I don't think that's correct. BRB states that template weapons inflict D3 hits in Overwatch, not D3 per number of shots it usually has.


Assuming you're using the new FAQs, it is correct

First Draft FAQ wrote:Templates and Blasts
...

Q: In the case of a template weapon that fires two or more times (such as the Blood Angels’ frag cannon), do they still only inflict D3 hits when firing Overwatch, or D3 hits per number of shots in the weapon profile?
A: D3 hits per number of shots in the weapon’s profile.

Alright, hadn't seen that.

Jacket
Shas'Saal
Posts: 373

Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#11 » Jul 25 2016 01:43

Raverrn wrote:Since when are Kroot and Riptides 'sub-par'?

I should clarify. I would run a single Riptide or less and then Kroot and Krootox ect. I would do a lot to tone down my list and they still couldn't beat it. I doubt if I fielded an entire army of vespid they could beat me. I even took pathfinders with upgrades. Brought shadowsun instead of a commander or buffmander and had her join a team of fusion suits. Even maxed out my Tau troop squads.

There was a few close games where I had a single unit left, but ultimately nothing I did could lose. I would probably have to go out of my way to skip shooting a turn to give them a chance to win. My only opponents are orks, IG, and Tyranids. Also my IG opponent thinks wyverns are one of the *BAD WORD DELETED!* units in the IG codex and nothing can convince him otherwise. I even told them to go for my markerlights and they never went for them except like once. I've even tried proxying my skyrays as devilfish and ended up tank shocking them off the board and disrupting them enough with getting in the way to shoot them.

Edit
I have tried using the burst tide. They said it was less powerful, but still over powered.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#12 » Jul 25 2016 03:07

Jacket wrote:
Raverrn wrote:Since when are Kroot and Riptides 'sub-par'?

I should clarify. I would run a single Riptide or less and then Kroot and Krootox ect. I would do a lot to tone down my list and they still couldn't beat it. I doubt if I fielded an entire army of vespid they could beat me. I even took pathfinders with upgrades. Brought shadowsun instead of a commander or buffmander and had her join a team of fusion suits. Even maxed out my Tau troop squads.

There was a few close games where I had a single unit left, but ultimately nothing I did could lose. I would probably have to go out of my way to skip shooting a turn to give them a chance to win. My only opponents are orks, IG, and Tyranids. Also my IG opponent thinks wyverns are one of the *BAD WORD DELETED!* units in the IG codex and nothing can convince him otherwise. I even told them to go for my markerlights and they never went for them except like once. I've even tried proxying my skyrays as devilfish and ended up tank shocking them off the board and disrupting them enough with getting in the way to shoot them.

Edit
I have tried using the burst tide. They said it was less powerful, but still over powered.


Well the way you describe it it seems your opponents are partly terrible player and partly use low tier armys and you are an above average player in the first place.
If they don't want to learn there is nothing you can do. Just stay friendly and let them play their game. Wait for them to come to you to get some help instead of trying to take the initiative on that and if they don't come to you then that's fine as well.
Also i wouldn't do such a thing as skipping an entire turn of shooting. That won't be fun for them at all.

Back then we had a player in our FLGS which was a lot better than most of us. He almost always beat us without a problem with his CQC dwarf army list (WHFB). Given we were still learning but he was a great guy who only gave us advice when we asked for it other than explaining rules so it was always a great atmosphere to play against him and it actually encouraged us to play smarter than we used to just because we wanted to not because he told us to.
He also never really toned his army down. It was not the kind of army he would field in bigger tournaments, just the kind of army he liked to play (which was still not bad at all with his skill).

halogod786
Shas'Saal
Posts: 41

Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#13 » Jul 25 2016 03:56

Assuming you're using the new FAQs, it is correct

First Draft FAQ wrote:Templates and Blasts
...

Q: In the case of a template weapon that fires two or more times (such as the Blood Angels’ frag cannon), do they still only inflict D3 hits when firing Overwatch, or D3 hits per number of shots in the weapon profile?
A: D3 hits per number of shots in the weapon’s profile.
[/quote]
Alright, hadn't seen that.[/quote]

I play ITC and as of now we don't use the FAQ we will be using it when it's official however it is not. And RAW if you have a weapon that fires twice it may shoot twice and also there is no other assault 2 flamer they don't exist outside of tau. So then it begs the question if you charge a Waithgaurd with D-scythes does that mean it can only fire a single D3 right. Not at all by shooting a assault 2 weapon fires twice following the same rules. As a multi shot weapon. All this is legal until the FAQ is released officially

Grogalmighty
Shas'Saal
Posts: 46

Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#14 » Jul 26 2016 09:24

I call mine the Red Baron.

The 109 is a gorgeous mini with rules you should expect to be changed by the next imperial armor. As it stands now it is a glass cannon, but evasive. The best upgrades you can give it are velocity tracker and stimulant injector.

Against any army with high AV or large numbers of vehicles and fliers it is pure death with its haywire burst and flamer, and it's ability to run from combat makes it slippery.

The problem is it is a bullet magnet and your enemies will divert attention to it like moths to a flame. You have to use it wisely. Your dtones weigh you down.

I strongly suggest you have homing beacons in your army for it to deep strike safely and plenty of support to make sure it doesn't die too soon.

Jacket
Shas'Saal
Posts: 373

Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#15 » Jul 26 2016 09:27

I sure hope they don't nerf it. If anything this and the new Barracuda need buffs. Tau is in dire need of potent toys. Particularly in the ITC. I would actually like it's stats to stay the same and it get some cool formations. If it's kept potent your average Tau haters will never have to fight it an engage their brain since its so rare outside the ITC, but it's still there for the ITC and advanced players to actually give our lists a chance at the top.

If this was a GW model it would almost certainly be nerfed into oblivion and called bloody murder unless it was a Necron, Eldar, or Space Marine release. Xenos can't have nice things. Look at the rage our Riptide gets and it's not even all that great compared to some of the super OP stuff out there these days. People just hate Tau.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#16 » Jul 26 2016 10:58

I actually wouldn't mind a slight nerf. It's an awesome model with awesome weapons but a little bit too strong for many casual games unfortunately.
A nerf of the actual unit and strong formations for the tournament player would be great imo.

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Myrdin
Shas
Posts: 403

Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#17 » Jul 26 2016 11:04

I am with Jacket on this one. Considering all the cheese that's being poured into other codices individual units (yes I am excluding formations, I don't like them. I prefered the old CAD style more).
So hopefully no nerf will follow up. From what I´ve seen there has not been so much hate for 109, like it was for 107 R´varna. Which in all honesty is not as OP. It just came out to early when more of the GW cheese was not yet out and thus earned a bucket of tears, hate and a nerf to go with it. Had it been released now, when the meta is full of Grav/D weapons and nonsense that allows you to assault from DS, it would suffer much less flame.
Last edited by Myrdin on Jul 26 2016 01:06, edited 1 time in total.

Jacket
Shas'Saal
Posts: 373

Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#18 » Jul 26 2016 12:00

Everything FW needs buffs. It needs to set the new Tau standard and make GW up its game with our codex units and updates in the future. Only FW have the ability to put pressure on GW by taking sales from them to their own Tau stuff.

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