XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

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Jacket
Shas'Saal
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Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#21 » Jul 26 2016 04:36

Panzer wrote:Well I guess I'm the only one who thinks Tau are in a good spot balance wise and other Codices should get nerfed or buffed to get on the same level as ours..

Oh if we were all brought down equally before 8th ed comes sure. Even bringing us down to the other armies levels (and buffing weaker armies) and finding a middle ground, but I got a feeling that won't happen till 8th and a completely new edition. So while we're still in this rat race we should get the buffs.

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Panzer
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Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#22 » Jul 26 2016 11:13

Jacket wrote:
Panzer wrote:Well I guess I'm the only one who thinks Tau are in a good spot balance wise and other Codices should get nerfed or buffed to get on the same level as ours..

Oh if we were all brought down equally before 8th ed comes sure. Even bringing us down to the other armies levels (and buffing weaker armies) and finding a middle ground, but I got a feeling that won't happen till 8th and a completely new edition. So while we're still in this rat race we should get the buffs.

It. will never happen. There was never and will never be 100% balance between all armies in Warhammer. ;)

Jacket
Shas'Saal
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Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#23 » Jul 27 2016 02:03

Panzer wrote:
Jacket wrote:
Panzer wrote:Well I guess I'm the only one who thinks Tau are in a good spot balance wise and other Codices should get nerfed or buffed to get on the same level as ours..

Oh if we were all brought down equally before 8th ed comes sure. Even bringing us down to the other armies levels (and buffing weaker armies) and finding a middle ground, but I got a feeling that won't happen till 8th and a completely new edition. So while we're still in this rat race we should get the buffs.

It. will never happen. There was never and will never be 100% balance between all armies in Warhammer. ;)

I should have specified. An attempt won't be made until 8th. Haha. :D

halogod786
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Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#24 » Jul 28 2016 01:29

The thing is that for casual gaming we are the top. But to a tournament player if tau make a mistake we are crushed the other person will have armor 60 armor 3 compared to riptide wing of 15 wounds a single wound is devastating to a riptide based list and in our currant meta not taking riptides or our most OP stuff is statistical suicide firewarriors can't cut through that many MEQs or Demons or Eldar.

Grogalmighty
Shas'Saal
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Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#25 » Jul 28 2016 11:23

Ok. I just wanted to clarify something and add an addendum.

There are two viable builds for the 109.

Red Baron: Stim injector and velocity tracker

Rope-a-Dope:Stim injector and early warning override.


The red baron is obvious but the Rope-a-Dope is a little more nuanced. If you deploy him round 1 against an enemy with deep strikers he becomes a juicy target for a drop attack and that's where the EWO comes into play. I have seen entire drop pods full of marines, grey knight terminators and dreadnought die the moment they appear next to him. If he survives and the enemy is still present into your next phase you can boost away or leave into reserves.

A note on drones: these are iffy because you can't leap with them and you cannot leave them until they die. I suggest combining them with the Rope-A-Dope version for a little extra survivability but the Red Baron load out doesn't work as well (you need to be quick to catch enemy fliers.)

halogod786
Shas'Saal
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Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#26 » Jul 28 2016 02:47

Grogalmighty wrote:Ok. I just wanted to clarify something and add an addendum.

There are two viable builds for the 109.

Red Baron: Stim injector and velocity tracker

Rope-a-Dope:Stim injector and early warning override.


The red baron is obvious but the Rope-a-Dope is a little more nuanced. If you deploy him round 1 against an enemy with deep strikers he becomes a juicy target for a drop attack and that's where the EWO comes into play. I have seen entire drop pods full of marines, grey knight terminators and dreadnought die the moment they appear next to him. If he survives and the enemy is still present into your next phase you can boost away or leave into reserves.

A note on drones: these are iffy because you can't leap with them and you cannot leave them until they die. I suggest combining them with the Rope-A-Dope version for a little extra survivability but the Red Baron load out doesn't work as well (you need to be quick to catch enemy fliers.)


A agree with you on the Rope a dope 109. It really works out for the most part and while it's nice having skyfire on the 109 you might as well get 2 barracudas and call it a day skyfire stuff should be used by skyrays and barracudas because they are just more effective.

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invasive wargaming
Shas'Saal
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Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#27 » Jul 29 2016 09:34

materpillar wrote:
halogod786 wrote:if running farsight use the ECR as much as you can it will save your life

I assume you're talking about the earth caste pilot array right? Due note that with the new (draft) FAQ rolling gets hot for blasts (and thus I assume templates) isn't a to hit roll, thus you can't use the earth caste array to reroll a 1 you'd roll on your gets hot check for your flamers.


Please note that the rules for the Y'Vahra specify that it can only be taken in a Codex: Tau Empire Detachment.
Find me on youtube: Invasive Wargaming

Grogalmighty
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Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#28 » Jul 29 2016 01:03

Well its good news that Farsight Enclaves count as Tau Empire according to their own book, otherwise you would have a point to make.

Grogalmighty
Shas'Saal
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Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#29 » Jul 29 2016 01:09

halogod786 wrote:
Grogalmighty wrote:Ok. I just wanted to clarify something and add an addendum.

There are two viable builds for the 109.

Red Baron: Stim injector and velocity tracker

Rope-a-Dope:Stim injector and early warning override.


The red baron is obvious but the Rope-a-Dope is a little more nuanced. If you deploy him round 1 against an enemy with deep strikers he becomes a juicy target for a drop attack and that's where the EWO comes into play. I have seen entire drop pods full of marines, grey knight terminators and dreadnought die the moment they appear next to him. If he survives and the enemy is still present into your next phase you can boost away or leave into reserves.

A note on drones: these are iffy because you can't leap with them and you cannot leave them until they die. I suggest combining them with the Rope-A-Dope version for a little extra survivability but the Red Baron load out doesn't work as well (you need to be quick to catch enemy fliers.)


A agree with you on the Rope a dope 109. It really works out for the most part and while it's nice having skyfire on the 109 you might as well get 2 barracudas and call it a day skyfire stuff should be used by skyrays and barracudas because they are just more effective.



I disagree. With the haywire burst rule and superior survivability the 109 is cheaper, more flexible and more effective. Also, the sky ray sucks at AA

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invasive wargaming
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Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#30 » Jul 29 2016 01:36

Grogalmighty wrote:Well its good news that Farsight Enclaves count as Tau Empire according to their own book, otherwise you would have a point to make.


Thank you for your courteous reply. Can you indicate where precisely this is stated? As far as I can tell, the closest is as follows:
Farsight Enclaves p.52 wrote:If you wish, you can say that any Tau detachment or Formation in your army is from the Farsight Enclaves


This indicates that Tau detachments can be Farsight Enclaves detachments, but does not say that they are the same thing. They are distinct, as indicated on page 54:

The Dawn Blade Contingent is a Farsight Enclaves Detachment as described on page 52.


Combined, these two statements indicate that Tau units can belong to either a Tau Empire detachment, or a Farsight Enclaves detachment. A detachment from the main codex is a "Codex: Tau Empire detachment," while one taken from the Farsight Enclaves is a "Farsight Enclaves detachment."

The specification in the Y'Vahra rules that specify that it cannot take Farsight Enclaves support systems is in-line with Y'Vahra not being available to Farsight Enclaves detachments.

There is still a way to get Y'Vahra in a Farsight army, however, since you can have multiple detachments within a single army.
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Grogalmighty
Shas'Saal
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Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#31 » Jul 29 2016 02:46

....in no way does it say that your tau detachment is not still a tau detachment just because you take it as farsight enclaves. You are just stacking one rule over another by taking it.

By your own wording there is nothing that states the FSE list is not a TE list, just a TE list with additional rules. It's just like Iyanden is still craft world eldar, just specifically iyanden with its own specific rules. Frankly it can be interpreted either way.

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ShasODerpy
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Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#32 » Jul 29 2016 03:27

invasive wargaming wrote:
Grogalmighty wrote:Well its good news that Farsight Enclaves count as Tau Empire according to their own book, otherwise you would have a point to make.


Thank you for your courteous reply. Can you indicate where precisely this is stated? As far as I can tell, the closest is as follows:
Farsight Enclaves p.52 wrote:If you wish, you can say that any Tau detachment or Formation in your army is from the Farsight Enclaves


This indicates that Tau detachments can be Farsight Enclaves detachments, but does not say that they are the same thing. They are distinct, as indicated on page 54:

The Dawn Blade Contingent is a Farsight Enclaves Detachment as described on page 52.


Combined, these two statements indicate that Tau units can belong to either a Tau Empire detachment, or a Farsight Enclaves detachment. A detachment from the main codex is a "Codex: Tau Empire detachment," while one taken from the Farsight Enclaves is a "Farsight Enclaves detachment."

The specification in the Y'Vahra rules that specify that it cannot take Farsight Enclaves support systems is in-line with Y'Vahra not being available to Farsight Enclaves detachments.

There is still a way to get Y'Vahra in a Farsight army, however, since you can have multiple detachments within a single army.



Hey there!,

Please note that a "Codex" and "Detachment" are not the same thing.
One refers to all the army-rules and unit choices avaible to that army (Codex) While the other is a method of assembling a list of models to play with. (Detachment)


Farsight Enclaves Detachments are still part of Codex: Tau Empire, They're just being supplemented with a few additions/exceptions as listed under the Farsight Enclaves books.
There is no such thing as a "Codex: Farsight Enclaves".


-Derp
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Technomagier
Shas'Saal
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Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#33 » Jul 30 2016 07:36

I prefer my 109 with SI und EWO Systems. I never use drones on him. He is a beast, and thanks to the fakt, that my local meta has a lot of Astartes and Eldar, I'm not asamed of using it. Only when Nids or Orcs are fielded, I'm using it in a suboptimal way or ask, if I can change my list afterwards, to tone it somewhat down. In casual games, I didn't use two XV 10[n]. I use hin in addition with remoras and sentry turrets. And hopefully with a barracuda in the near future. My AA are a skyray, my remoras and sometimes Deathrain Crisis or Broadsides.

He normally plays the role of a distraction unit and bullet magnet. And if my opponent fields something very enerving, like a [smth]knight, I use him head on in my turn and evacuate in the opponents turn, to bring it down in max. 2 turns*. My regular Armybuild right now is a CAD and Remora Wing. A thing I will try in one of my next games, is a 109 with the support of a Coldstar Commander. I think, they will make a nice "couple" together. :dead: They are both fast and have both this asymetrical feeling in their weapons.



*support from other units are o/c suggested.

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invasive wargaming
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Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#34 » Aug 01 2016 03:26

ShasODerpy wrote:
Please note that a "Codex" and "Detachment" are not the same thing.
One refers to all the army-rules and unit choices avaible to that army (Codex) While the other is a method of assembling a list of models to play with. (Detachment)


Yep, I was not contesting that.

ShasODerpy wrote:There is no such thing as a "Codex: Farsight Enclaves".


Also true.

ShasODerpy wrote:Farsight Enclaves Detachments are still part of Codex: Tau Empire, They're just being supplemented with a few additions/exceptions as listed under the Farsight Enclaves books.


So, I think this is where I run into an issue. Farsight Enclaves are not part of Codex: Tau Empire, they're part of Codex Supplement: Farsight Enclaves. They are separate books. However, all tau units (regardless of source material) are part of the Tau Empire faction. This is why the wording on the Y'Vahra rules ("...in a Codex: Tau Empire detachment") suggest to me that the Y'Vahra can only be taken in non-FSE detachments. If I'm wrong, it would be less ambiguous to have it worded as "...in a detachment with the Tau Empire faction."

All this said, it seems like I'm in the minority and that most people play it as Y'Vahra can be taken in FSE. While I haven't been able to find a definitive consensus in ATT forums or in ITC rulings, it seems like ITC is cool with Y'Vahra in FSE lists. So, I would be fine accepting this ruling.
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Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#35 » Aug 03 2016 05:14

I usually only put ewo on mine. Stims if I have the points, but I really don't expect him to last longer then 3 turns max anyway. By that time he's already killed a ton of points and protected my Ripwing by taking shots. I never take velocity trackers on anything. With tetras on the board and a general dearth of flyers in the region I play in (Nova), vt is just a waste of points. Plus I run my Ripwing with hbc.

I've found that starting him on the board is usually the best option. A first turn swoop and then he's in the enemy's ranks flaming death on all and sundry. Sure he dies a glorious death, but the rest of the army is free to position and shoot from afar.

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Illuria
Shas'Saal
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Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#36 » Aug 03 2016 05:53

invasive wargaming wrote:
ShasODerpy wrote:
Please note that a "Codex" and "Detachment" are not the same thing.
One refers to all the army-rules and unit choices avaible to that army (Codex) While the other is a method of assembling a list of models to play with. (Detachment)


Yep, I was not contesting that.

ShasODerpy wrote:There is no such thing as a "Codex: Farsight Enclaves".


Also true.

ShasODerpy wrote:Farsight Enclaves Detachments are still part of Codex: Tau Empire, They're just being supplemented with a few additions/exceptions as listed under the Farsight Enclaves formations, which was clarified by the recent draft FAQ.


So, I think this is where I run into an issue. Farsight Enclaves are not part of Codex: Tau Empire, they're part of Codex Supplement: Farsight Enclaves. They are separate books. However, all tau units (regardless of source material) are part of the Tau Empire faction. This is why the wording on the Y'Vahra rules ("...in a Codex: Tau Empire detachment") suggest to me that the Y'Vahra can only be taken in non-FSE detachments. If I'm wrong, it would be less ambiguous to have it worded as "...in a detachment with the Tau Empire faction."

All this said, it seems like I'm in the minority and that most people play it as Y'Vahra can be taken in FSE. While I haven't been able to find a definitive consensus in ATT forums or in ITC rulings, it seems like ITC is cool with Y'Vahra in FSE lists. So, I would be fine accepting this ruling.

The thing I think you're missing here is that the FSE book is a Codex Supplement. The key word is 'supplement'. In English, at least, this means that is intended to add on to the original, not replace it. This can easily be seen by the fact that certain formations on the Dawn Blade Contingent listing say 'See Codex: Tau Empire' (at least, they do in Mont'ka, they might be included in FSE but it doesn't diminish my argument much). You can also take any formations that are in the Codex: Tau Empire book as Farsight Enclaves formations, as clarified by the recent draft FAQ.
Thus, my interpretation is that FSE is to Codex: Tau Empire as square is to rectangle. A FSE army is a Codex: Tau Empire army with extra requirements to be valid, just as a square is a rectangle with extra requirements.
All FSE armies are Codex: Tau Empire armies, but not all Codex: Tau Empire armies are FSE armies, just as all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares.
Last edited by Illuria on Aug 03 2016 07:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Vector Strike
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#37 » Aug 03 2016 06:22

Yeah, the new FSE book (and Mont'ka as well) tells us their rules are just a template you put over your Tau models. And even the fluff says Tau stuff is smuggled to FSE space from time to time - so not reason to not have the newest advancements only for Tau Empire.

Grogalmighty wrote: Also, the sky ray sucks at AA

What? A thread ins this own site showed us the Sky Ray is our best AA option...

halogod786
Shas'Saal
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Re: XV-109 Y'vharra battlesuit strategys

Post#38 » Aug 03 2016 02:38

Guys we should not argue about detachments and codexes. You create a division in the greater good divided we are weak together we are strong so that being said you can bring and allied detachment of farsight enclaves to get access to all the wargear and OBSEC suits. For the tau empire detachment you can just put a fireblade to supplement your firewarriors. And it will give you access to the XV-109s. Invasive Ramnus is right you can't stick the ECR on the flametides.

But either way no opponent is going to look at that rule either because In the eyes of the gui'la and other enemy's of the greater good. Farsight enclaves and Tau empire are the same thing. So you can get away with it.

By the way whoever said that the skyray is bad against flyers 3 words:
Skyfire networked markerlights.

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