The Academy Project

Use this area for all discussions of the "gaming" aspect of 40K/Tau.
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Ell'ran
Shas'Vre
Posts: 1117

Re: The Academy Project

Post#11 » Nov 10 2016 04:26

Good to see a decent turnout in interest. Unfortunately I'm going to be gone for the weekend, so when i don't reply it's not because of a lack of interest in the project, it's because I literally can't reply, lol.

To those of you who wanted to work on just the general articles, until I get back I would like those of you who have and have not expressed their interest, but are still looking to work on the project to review and update Babaganoosh's Fire Warrior article, and bring it up to the current standards. Feel free to remake it however you want, just don't expect everything to get used. This is more to see where your strong points are as part of the project. When you're done just PM it to me and I'll review them all. SniperTau, Panzer and nic, this is mostly aimed at you guys. If you guys are feeling motivated, you can do the same to his Kroot article as well.

Boomwolf, I have a special task for you if you're up for it. If it doesn't already exist, could you break down the Pulse Blaster's unsaved wounds by range? Ideally it would be a chart going from T3 to T6 (I was going to say T3, T4, and T6 but Darkstrider's significance cannot be ignored vs MCs). Additionally, could you make another chart for unsaved wounds with cover/invul saves from 3+ to 5+? Anything else you think would be useful feel free to add it in.

Tauman, I don't have any faith in rumors on the internet. It's far too early to even begin to think about where they might take it, and rumor-mongers will always try to do things to gain their 15 minutes. If you change your mind about wanting to help just let me know.

Shas'len'ra, Let me know when you've got the time and we'll find something for you to do. :) I've got about 60% of an old Vespid article finished, but I'm very unhappy with it in its current state, so maybe if you decide to help with the project I'll have you look over that.

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Tael
Fio'O
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Re: The Academy Project

Post#12 » Nov 10 2016 07:26

If you require graphics - please PM a sketch or rough digital art and I will render it up with my library of icons etc.

I'll be working on a new header graphic for articles meanwhile.

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boomwolf
Shas'La
Posts: 1752

Re: The Academy Project

Post#13 » Nov 11 2016 01:47

I can do that sometime next week. Maybe Sunday, maybe later.

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NoobPwner84
Shas'La
Posts: 192

Re: The Academy Project

Post#14 » Nov 11 2016 06:03

Hello.

I'd like to contribute if I could. Though I have moved on to Necrons whilst living in the Southern Hemisphere, I played nearly exclusively Tau at some of the UK's big tournies for 2 years. I wrote a piece on the Optimsed Stealth Cadre formation some time back.
The true warrior engages only the worthy opponent

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Shas'O Darklighter
Shas'Ui
Posts: 450

Re: The Academy Project

Post#15 » Nov 11 2016 07:47

I've unfortunately let my current rules knowledge slide... The bloat of this edition has gotten to much for me to bother with and with the eve of next edition on the horizon I've little motivation at the moment to learn all the intricacies... I'd however be more than up for it when the next edition hits. I wish you all the best of luck and look forward to seeing the results.

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Tael
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Re: The Academy Project

Post#16 » Nov 11 2016 06:15

At this stage, it would be best for all first time contributors to have a review of established articles to get a feel for the content layout and writing style (to seperate personal opinion from factual evidence)

There is a hidden think tank section which I will work to reopen for each contributor access.

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Czar Ziggy
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Re: The Academy Project

Post#17 » Nov 12 2016 08:07

I can be more useful for this on the hobby side of the articles. Simple kit bashes and little tricks is what I do best since I don't game much more beyond casual. I can talk about things like how well, for example, Fire Warrior kits can be added to by left over bits from Pathfinder, Ghost Keel, and Stromsurge kits. If you feel that is something we could add to these articles.

Czar Ziggy

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El'mo
Shas'El
Posts: 1507

Re: The Academy Project

Post#18 » Nov 12 2016 08:16

It is great to see the interest in adding to and improving these articles unfortunately I am not a rules wizard so can not really offer any assistance as I am more involved on the model side.... saying that, if anyone needs help with magnets then I am the Shas to see ;)

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nic
Kroot'La
Posts: 743

Re: The Academy Project

Post#19 » Nov 12 2016 10:09

Ell'ran wrote:Good to see a decent turnout in interest. Unfortunately I'm going to be gone for the weekend, so when i don't reply it's not because of a lack of interest in the project, it's because I literally can't reply, lol.

To those of you who wanted to work on just the general articles, until I get back I would like those of you who have and have not expressed their interest, but are still looking to work on the project to review and update Babaganoosh's Fire Warrior article, and bring it up to the current standards. Feel free to remake it however you want, just don't expect everything to get used. This is more to see where your strong points are as part of the project. When you're done just PM it to me and I'll review them all. SniperTau, Panzer and nic, this is mostly aimed at you guys. If you guys are feeling motivated, you can do the same to his Kroot article as well.



I had a brief discussion with Babaganoosh a while back about that article so I already knew some minor changes I wanted to make. The same goes for the Kroot article.

Is there any interest in looking at some fundamentals of list building and play styles? We have an article on Detachments/Formations but what I was thinking was more along the lines of an article explaining each of the fundamental approaches such as MSU and how/if that is supported by the Tau codex and how that pulls through into play on the table. If we did tackle this then my experience is very much at the MSU end, I do not run death-star Crisis units or massed MC/GMC so I would not want to take the lead on articles explaining how to do so. We can include some Tau-specific ones such as Ninja-Tau (although arguably the new GSC achieve some similar effects by very different means).

I think the final thing I would like to be clear on is the level we are pitching this at. I am confident in my ability to explain aspects of the game for store/club/local tournament play - I have far less interest in articles pitched at "I want to win Adeptacon/LVO" for a few reasons
  • It is for a very narrow audience
  • I really do not think the players in a position to win these events need to read advice on ATT
  • The advice would need to be different for each format (ITC/ETC etc) anyway

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Tael
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Re: The Academy Project

Post#20 » Nov 12 2016 02:09

It is for a very narrow audience
I really do not think the players in a position to win these events need to read advice on ATT
The advice would need to be different for each format (ITC/ETC etc) anyway


Tend to agree somewhat - sites like WarhammerTau which are dedicated to exploring competitive Tau forces are the sort of site they visit.

My hope would be a good resource for folks to see what units are capable of and where they suffer to make informed gameplay and buying decisions as they expand their collection.

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Jefffar
Shas'Vre
Posts: 1009

Re: The Academy Project

Post#21 » Nov 12 2016 05:58

I can't contribute a lot to the practical side of the articles as the last time I actually fielded an army my Broadsides had A.S.S.es.

I can certainly help proofread and review.

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Ell'ran
Shas'Vre
Posts: 1117

Re: The Academy Project

Post#22 » Nov 14 2016 01:25

Tael wrote:At this stage, it would be best for all first time contributors to have a review of established articles to get a feel for the content layout and writing style (to seperate personal opinion from factual evidence)

There is a hidden think tank section which I will work to reopen for each contributor access.

I agree wholeheartedly, it can be a bit tricky to remove opinion when writing an article, but it is absolutely necessary to do so.

Czar Ziggy wrote:I can be more useful for this on the hobby side of the articles. Simple kit bashes and little tricks is what I do best since I don't game much more beyond casual. I can talk about things like how well, for example, Fire Warrior kits can be added to by left over bits from Pathfinder, Ghost Keel, and Stromsurge kits. If you feel that is something we could add to these articles.

Czar Ziggy

While the goal of these articles doesn't coincide with your proposed skillset, I would be very interested to see your work. Do you have a project log? I wouldn't know, I seldom perused the Lower Concourse.

nic wrote:I had a brief discussion with Babaganoosh a while back about that article so I already knew some minor changes I wanted to make. The same goes for the Kroot article.

Is there any interest in looking at some fundamentals of list building and play styles? We have an article on Detachments/Formations but what I was thinking was more along the lines of an article explaining each of the fundamental approaches such as MSU and how/if that is supported by the Tau codex and how that pulls through into play on the table. If we did tackle this then my experience is very much at the MSU end, I do not run death-star Crisis units or massed MC/GMC so I would not want to take the lead on articles explaining how to do so. We can include some Tau-specific ones such as Ninja-Tau (although arguably the new GSC achieve some similar effects by very different means).

I think the final thing I would like to be clear on is the level we are pitching this at. I am confident in my ability to explain aspects of the game for store/club/local tournament play - I have far less interest in articles pitched at "I want to win Adeptacon/LVO" for a few reasons
  • It is for a very narrow audience
  • I really do not think the players in a position to win these events need to read advice on ATT
  • The advice would need to be different for each format (ITC/ETC etc) anyway


I feel that we can touch on the subject of MSU, but these guides are aimed at a more basic overview of each units, while MSU is a concept deserving of a full article in it's own right. There exist supporters and opponents of both the MSU and large unit strategies, and both sides have valid points, and I just feel that it is a can of worms that we don't need to open up within an overview article. There are of course a few exceptions to this, like the Soul Cleanse XV8 Monat loadout.

As for the level, I don't want to hold people's hands and tell them how to build their army. What I hope to do is to explain the units in detail, what they are capable of, and where they shine and lack. XV8s will of course be the most complicated article so I'd like to tackle that once we have gotten a handle on some of the more fundamental aspects of creating the Articles.

Tael wrote:Tend to agree somewhat - sites like WarhammerTau which are dedicated to exploring competitive Tau forces are the sort of site they visit.

My hope would be a good resource for folks to see what units are capable of and where they suffer to make informed gameplay and buying decisions as they expand their collection.

I'm pretty sure Tael and I see eye to eye on this subject, it's all a matter of making it happen. Unfortunately, I haven't played since early 6th edition, which is why I am relying so heavily on the community to make this happen. Also I have zero experience with models bigger than a Crisis or Broadside.

Jefffar wrote:I can't contribute a lot to the practical side of the articles as the last time I actually fielded an army my Broadsides had A.S.S.es.

I can certainly help proofread and review.

I may take you up on that offer. I've got a lot on my plate so sometimes my brain gets fuzzy when trying to proof read partial submissions.

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Mirth
Shas'La
Posts: 83

Re: The Academy Project

Post#23 » Nov 14 2016 01:44

I would be happy to assist with proofing (particularly on the grammar/phrasing/spellcheck side of proofing articles).

Also, I am quite happy to assist with articles, army evaluation/building, unit critique, and general tactical advice, but I do admit that my general knowledge is sometimes lacking as I tend to specialize heavily in units I enjoy using and tend to ignore other units until I see an article about them here. :)

Just let me know if you'd like my assistance with anything! :D
When we forget we are soldiers, we stop fighting.

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nic
Kroot'La
Posts: 743

Re: The Academy Project

Post#24 » Nov 14 2016 01:46

Ell'ran wrote:
I feel that we can touch on the subject of MSU, but these guides are aimed at a more basic overview of each units, while MSU is a concept deserving of a full article in it's own right. There exist supporters and opponents of both the MSU and large unit strategies, and both sides have valid points, and I just feel that it is a can of worms that we don't need to open up within an overview article. There are of course a few exceptions to this, like the Soul Cleanse XV8 Monat loadout.



To be clear what I was hoping to get towards was a short series of articles in addition to the unit overviews which looked at some broader issues of list building and the play styles that go with them. The point is that each of these styles is valid and has its own advantages and disadvantages. I do not think we even have an agreed terminology for all of these but I would suggest that the 3 are:
  • MSU - e.g. FSE massed Monat Crisis
  • Super-Unit - e.g. Crisis Bomb
  • Monster list - e.g. Monster Mash/Pacific rim

I personally tend towards MSU and would be comfortable explaining how these work along with their strengths and weaknesses in a Tau context. It is not about readers suddenly having to go and build pure Super-Unit lists - in reality hardly anyone builds a purist list style and nor do I - it is perhaps more about understanding how the mechanics of the game shape some fundamental approaches.

At some point we could refer unit articles to these - just as I hope the Piranha article refers to the Positional Play article - but only if useful and relevant to the unit.

It is not first on the to-do list but personally even though I regularly play Vespid I think some more general overviews of this sort would be more useful to more players than an article on Vespid.

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Ell'ran
Shas'Vre
Posts: 1117

Re: The Academy Project

Post#25 » Nov 14 2016 03:17

Mirth wrote:I would be happy to assist with proofing (particularly on the grammar/phrasing/spellcheck side of proofing articles).

Also, I am quite happy to assist with articles, army evaluation/building, unit critique, and general tactical advice, but I do admit that my general knowledge is sometimes lacking as I tend to specialize heavily in units I enjoy using and tend to ignore other units until I see an article about them here. :)

Just let me know if you'd like my assistance with anything! :D

Will do. Out of curiosity, what units do you specialize in?
nic wrote:...it is perhaps more about understanding how the mechanics of the game shape some fundamental approaches.

I'm not entirely sure that I follow your line of thinking, but if this one line is where we can agree then I'm sure we can work the rest out as we go along. I probably won't be spearheading the additional guides that you are hoping for, but I will lend what support I can to anyone who wishes to take that task on.

I'm currently in the middle of reviewing the edits that you sent me of Babaganoosh's articles. That guy had a good head on his shoulders but he wasn't the best at keeping opinion out of his writing, so it's taking longer than I anticipated. That being said, bringing his articles up to 7th edition will give us a good starting point. I also intend to make full use of the more finesse oriented articles that currently exist, and the catalog that Boomwolf posted earlier is another good starting point in that regards.

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Mirth
Shas'La
Posts: 83

Re: The Academy Project

Post#26 » Nov 14 2016 03:31

Broadside (missilesides specifically), Riptide (normal and R'varna), Ghostkeel, XV8 (particularly with Farsight), stealth suits, and battlesuit commanders. I tend to run lower-model count lists and try to maximize the potential of a given unit for what I plan to use it for.
When we forget we are soldiers, we stop fighting.

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nic
Kroot'La
Posts: 743

Re: The Academy Project

Post#27 » Nov 14 2016 03:49

In defense of Babaganoosh's articles the opinions expressed are generally good advice to a new/intermediate player and giving a full explanation of all of them would be a rather different style of article. It would result in a longer more mathematical thing to read. Alternatively we could pull out all the opinions which lack the full math-hammer support but then I think we would lose some of the benefit to new players.

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boomwolf
Shas'La
Posts: 1752

Re: The Academy Project

Post#28 » Nov 14 2016 04:23

Well, to put things on the table.

I found myself suddenly swamped in work in the uni, and as such the pulse blaster analysis can't be done soon.

Maybe over the weekend, MAYBE.

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