Ambushes & Feints... Where?

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neonmole
Shas'La
Posts: 26

Ambushes & Feints... Where?

Post#1 » Jan 06 2017 03:59

Hi Guys,

I am really sorry for the stupidity of this question... I have heard a lot of people talk about the rules for the Hunter Cadre detachment, which include a rule called "ambushes & feints", which I believe allows a run & shoot within 12" of the commander.

I cannot find this rule anywhere under the detachment, or anywhere else in the book. Can anyone point me to where I can find the details for this rule in the book?

Thankyou!
Scissors is balanced, nerf Paper. - Rock

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Overheal
Shas'Saal
Posts: 56

Re: Ambushes & Feints... Where?

Post#2 » Jan 06 2017 04:05

it could be under the retaliation cadre. Its easy to confuse the 2 formations, both are fairly well mixed forms. The hunter contingent is the "core" formation you'd take, then the retaliation cadre formation would be attached to that.

Unicornsilovethem
Shas'Saal
Posts: 241

Re: Ambushes & Feints... Where?

Post#3 » Jan 06 2017 04:07

Page 104

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Crooked Bird
Shas'Ui
Posts: 74

Re: Ambushes & Feints... Where?

Post#4 » Jan 06 2017 05:09

Page 104-105 lower right hand corner of Hunter Cadre.
I regret what I have not done.

neonmole
Shas'La
Posts: 26

Re: Ambushes & Feints... Where?

Post#5 » Jan 08 2017 07:05

Thanks guys.. I was looking at the page where it details the rules for coordinated fire etc. found it now!

As a follow up, how valuable do people find these rules vs. having ObSec from a CAD? In the context of my army I am not sure as I am going for a mounted infantry aesthetic - probably 3-4 FW units if devil fish. ObSec on those guys & transports is sweet, but then again, flat out on a hammerhead and shooting is pretty badass too... (planning on running several hammerheads).

Thoughts?
Scissors is balanced, nerf Paper. - Rock

Unicornsilovethem
Shas'Saal
Posts: 241

Re: Ambushes & Feints... Where?

Post#6 » Jan 08 2017 08:42

Not very useful, to me. First of all the Hunter Cadre is expensive in itself and comes with some restrictions (no Ethereal, no Tetra). Secondly running is just a 3.5" movement on average, since we don't have any access to fleet or similar. You can be sneaky and use it to bypass the rules for Heavy and Volley Fire, but still it's only a 3.5" move.

You'd need a Fireblade to use it on your Hammerheads, since the effect range is not that long and your Commander shouldn't be camping at home. I've been experimenting with using it on Breachers in a Devilfish to increase their threat range further, but then I always remember that a Devilfish is really expensive and Breachers can't benefit from Volley Fire (GW please). Most importantly, since it's random between 1-6, it's hard to make plans with it. You can have this great idea of how you're going to move your Breachers 12" and massacre his poor Space Marines, only to roll a 1, move 7", shoot S5Ap5, and regret not buying a Strike squad instead.

The other special rule for Hunter Cadre, the one that buffs the range on Supporting Fire, is a lot more interesting to me.

Ricordis
Shas'La
Posts: 136

Re: Ambushes & Feints... Where?

Post#7 » Jan 08 2017 01:22

If it is useful or not depends on the enemy.

I play against my Blood Angels friend on a regular base and run a whole Hunter Contingent inclusive an Optimized Stealth Cadre.

The extended range on supporting fire lets me spread my gunlines to cover each other.
Ambushes And Feints I mostly use for kiting his Death Company. The option to walk 6" backwards, running 1-6" further and then still hammer a full salvo of pulsefire into an incoming force is pretty neat. Especially if my friend wants to catch up he can't assault after running. Against jumppack units this usually offers me at least one more shooting phase before getting assaulted.

I found myself most adapting the Sa'cean art of war before I even knew how they fight: Infantry, Broadsides, Ghosts, Ethereals.
Generally I play agressively and push hard forwards with my Strike Teams, followed up by a Cadre Fireblade and some Pathfinders. My Pathfinders can move at least 1-6" and still keep firing their markerlights. So I can decide if I want to "fake a retreat" or stand my ground with even more firepower.
This way I gain table control and leave few safe space to land his deep striking units.
Making your enemy land on difficult terrain is pretty funny :D

Meanwhile Breachers inside of a Devilfish are taking objectives. Some time my Buff'O+Crisis deep strike near my Breachers offering firepower and another bubble of "run and gun".

If I can't play my Breachers/Crisis agressively anymore my Commander falls back near my Broadsides and gives them some mobility.

Bolter&Rail
Shas
Posts: 51

Re: Ambushes & Feints... Where?

Post#8 » Jan 09 2017 03:37

I rarely find ObSec helpful for Tau. If our troops are 3" away from enemy units at the end of our turn our units are usually toast...

That being said a CAD gives you much more flexibility in list making to use the units you want (including ForgeWorld). If you like strikers/breachers and arent trying to run a Stormsurge or ForgeWorld then I personally would go with a hunter contingent which includes the hunter cadre. That list can dish a lot of firepower and can synergize extremely well.

While it has its weaknesses I have had a lot of success at 1850pts with a Hunter Continent (Hunter Cadre, Firebase Support, and Optimized Stealth) + barebones CAD (for Shadowsun and outflanking kroot). 90% of the army can coordinate fire and the BS benefits in this list as well as MC/Tank hunter can be amazing.

In my experience CADs are best for Tau when you are trying to bring the stuff that you cant fit in formations. Otherwise Tau do have access to some fun formations and I would rather shoot enemies off objectives than try to hold it with the enemy there next to you. Not to mention our ObSec is pretty slow to make a difference really. (If an opponent speeder/jetbike holds an obj it better be a nearby one for you to get your devilfish or troops close enough to pry it out of the enemy hands)

Entil'zha
Shas'Saal
Posts: 89

Re: Ambushes & Feints... Where?

Post#9 » Jan 11 2017 07:20

To expensive? I'm at a loss here... a hunter cadre can be less then 500 points if you feel so inclined. I don't do it often because I like my firewarriors too much but I wanted to take a full armored interdiction cadre in a few games and points were too low for both.

So if you want to take like say two expensive auxiliary units go really cheap on the hunter unit it is allowed

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