8th edition

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Panzer
Shas'La
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Re: 8th edition

Post#11 » Mar 24 2017 12:09

Damn Pulse weapons really have none? Didn't expect that. o_O
Here is hope that they finally turn Burst Cannons into a proper weapon though.

Edit: I guess that means the balance might change a lot. Let us hope to see scatter laser without any armor modifier as well and Grav getting good rules for once as well. ;)

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Calmsword
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Re: 8th edition

Post#12 » Mar 24 2017 02:30

Remember it's still speculation at this point. They've dropped a few bombs and I bet are waiting to see how the community handles it.

I would imagine that strength modifiers would allow for variety amongst different weapon layouts that 'just' AP denies any kind of variety. With entire rules on cards/slates it also allows for individual units to have special rules within the confines of the codex. This, again, is me speculating but it might allow for a Hammerhead's burst cannons to have additional AP while a stealth squad doesn't.
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Vash
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Re: 8th edition

Post#13 » Mar 24 2017 05:06

I played 2nd edition.
It was a far more fun game, but it had a huge drawback. It took forever to complete a game. There were tables for everything. It basically was a role-playing game with miniatures on a larger scale.
Terminator saves were 3+... on 2D6. That means you rolled to save for each terminator separately every single time.

Each weapon, as discussed, had their own modifiers and set strength values. This I loved. Opened up for more variety and terminators actually were good.
But, there was an additional stat. And that was "wounds". Each weapon caused different amount of wounds on the target (not unit).
An assault cannon did 1D8 wounds, if I remember correctly, for each unsaved wound.
This, I hope doesn't get back though. There were way to many dice rolls, and way to much to remember/looking up in tables.

As mentioned, cover saves where modifiers on the to hit roll. This I like more than the current version. On top of that you had short, and long range stats.
Usually short range gave a boost to your to hit modifier, and long range a negative modifier.
These were individual for each weapon, adding more complexity to the weapon profiles.

But as everything, those weapons and items you use the most, you learn by heart after a while. So while it seems overwhelming with many new profiles and stats. We will get a huge load of from "Universal special rules".

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Panzer
Shas'La
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Re: 8th edition

Post#14 » Mar 24 2017 06:58

Vash wrote:I played 2nd edition.
It was a far more fun game, but it had a huge drawback. It took forever to complete a game.

So...like 7e? :D

To the other stuff you mentioned...well I wouldn't expect to get a straight 2e reboot. They are probably going with a mix of 7e, 2e and AoS and maybe something new as well.

Calmsword wrote:Remember it's still speculation at this point. They've dropped a few bombs and I bet are waiting to see how the community handles it.

I would imagine that strength modifiers would allow for variety amongst different weapon layouts that 'just' AP denies any kind of variety. With entire rules on cards/slates it also allows for individual units to have special rules within the confines of the codex. This, again, is me speculating but it might allow for a Hammerhead's burst cannons to have additional AP while a stealth squad doesn't.

Wait a sec. Speculation on your part or speculation on their part? o_O
The part about the modifier sounded like you were sure it'll be like that. :D

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Vash
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Re: 8th edition

Post#15 » Mar 24 2017 07:42

Well I hope they don't do a reboot of 2nd ed. With kids of my own, I don't have time for a 6 hour battle :D
Simplified rules of 2nd ed mixed in with AoS/7th ed WH40k would be nice.

Armour saves on terminators is something I am interested in how they solve, if they are looking at modification system.
I would like to avoid 2D6 save for them. That would be horrible for the simplicity and speed of the game.

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Panzer
Shas'La
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Re: 8th edition

Post#16 » Mar 24 2017 07:44

Vash wrote:Well I hope they don't do a reboot of 2nd ed. With kids of my own, I don't have time for a 6 hour battle :D
Simplified rules of 2nd ed mixed in with AoS/7th ed WH40k would be nice.

Armour saves on terminators is something I am interested in how they solve, if they are looking at modification system.
I would like to avoid 2D6 save for them. That would be horrible for the simplicity and speed of the game.

Yeah 2d6 would be HORRIBLE. Imagine having to take all those saves one by one after getting hit by a Firewarrior gunline etc.

They could give Terminator a 1+ safe or better and just say 1s always fail so they'd keep their 2+ armor even against weapons with small modifier.

Fokke
Shas'La
Posts: 130

Re: 8th edition

Post#17 » Mar 24 2017 09:14

Meh 2nd didn't take forever to play if you knew the rules. 1500 points was a good sized game, I don't think I ever played more than 2k. My 1500 point list was like 17 models. My group had it down on average to an hour per 1k points. so two people playing 1k each the game might last 2 hours. But we knew our armies and the stats for our armies in our heads so it was pretty quick. I preferred to make my terminator Khorne terminators with twin lightning claws for the 2+ save on 2d6 and some other bonus I cant remember. Was totally hero-hammer, something I have gone polar opposite in the last decade. My commander then was a Nurgle level 4 psychker with terminator armor, a daemon sword for the +2 WS and parry, and a power fist for the wounds and neg armor modifiers, plus combat drugs and a displacer field. He won a game vs nids single handedly because the psychic phase was SOOOOO much more powerful. Plaguewind with irresistible force on the first turn turned about half his army into plague bearers. He was also 365 points. Won another game with the first shot of the game with a lowly autocannon guy. 2d6 wounds to a Hive Tyrant which only had I think 7 wounds :) And guys shot individually. If guys 1-3 shoot enemy a, but guy 4 can see him due to terrain, he shoots someone else even in a different squad.

I like most of the teased rules so far. Be interested to see what they do with the armor modifiers for out AP5 weapons. If we stick to the d6 system we have now I cant see our pulse weapons having better than a -1. Not complaining, still better vs marines than we have now. I see lasguns dropping to -0. I have hated the AP system since its inception and am glad to see it go. I think we need to get out of the limited d6 system and use varied dice again.
Hope I am not the only one that wants to see sustained fire dice make a comeback :)

Hoping FW is off its butt and is working on pdfs to bring its various armies and units in line with 8th so those of us with primarily FW armies wont be sitting there twiddling our thumbs while everyone else is playing. Its not like they didn't know it was coming.

Unfortunately I think releasing this info so far ahead is going to hurt sales badly. I know aside from maybe a crisis team I want to mess around with, I probably wont have any 40k purchases between now and 8ths release. Doubt that I am the only one.

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Jefffar
Shas'Vre
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Re: 8th edition

Post#18 » Mar 24 2017 09:38

Well, if AP 2 equivalent will still negate all armour saves, it would be. -5.

AP 3 then is -4. AP 4 is -3, AP 5 is -2 and AP 6 -1.

But it could just as easily be AP - and 6 are 0, AP 5 is -1, AP 4 is -2, AP 3 is -3 and so on.

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Panzer
Shas'La
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Re: 8th edition

Post#19 » Mar 24 2017 09:49

Nah I never liked sustained fire dice. Always felt clunky to me.

Of course that info will hurt the sales but it's still a LOT better for GW than just one day dropping the new edition out of the blue.

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nic
Kroot'La
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Re: 8th edition

Post#20 » Mar 24 2017 12:04

Panzer wrote:Of course that info will hurt the sales but it's still a LOT better for GW than just one day dropping the new edition out of the blue.


Releasing this info makes me think that the rumours of a June release are about right, sales of rulebooks/campaign books will be hard to achieve if everybody knows the rules are going to change soon.

I would expect a couple of months of AoS & boxed games leading up to a big fanfare around 40K 8th in early summer. Of course I could be wrong :smile:

As for the rules themselves, nothing there that really bothers me and one or two that excite me. So on balance happy enough. Although I am in the group of players who think that the current rules are playable - unless playing against a jerk in which case the rules are not the problem anyway.

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