The run to 8th edition

Use this area for all discussions of the "gaming" aspect of 40K/Tau.
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Vector Strike
Shas'La
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#21 » Apr 24 2017 08:55

Jacket wrote:Sounds like Tau nerf edition inbound. I heard the frontline guys and some other sites testing the rules for 8th and offering balance feedback. More than any other faction they nerfed Tau despite the fact that for the longest time until this year Tau were not even placing in the top 15. I always hear them complaining about the Taunar being so OP and needing to be nerfed and saying the fact that Tau is only viable with it says a lot.

What does that mean Reecie? What do you want the Tau players to use in the ITC exactly? All the overnerfed stuff you toned down on them? Can you blame them when its the only option left?

I'm definitely worried with them having say in the rules. Thankfully other major tournament organizers are also providing feedback and Frankie likes the Tau.

I'm okay with Tau nerfs if they are done with balance in mind to every other faction and not over-nerfed like so many video game companies do when the mobs come. That is not my problem and why I'm making this post. If we don't see all the other even more powerful stuff than anything the Tau has nerfed alongside them fairly then we know there is probably a bias issue.

Edit
I'll try and remain hopeful mods.


I agree, ITC organizers have problems with Tau. I fear what they may have done with the army.

Of course, some stuff needed to be toned down (Riptide, Tau'nar), but let's hope it wasn't too much.
On the other hand, GW said this will be the most balanced edition of all. Mayhaps we can use Vespids as a serious threat in the battlefield?

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Panzer
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#22 » Apr 24 2017 10:45

A Tau nerf isn't necessarily bad if the other big ones get nerfed as well and the weak ones buffed so we meet in the middle though. It all depends on what exactly and how much gets nerfed.

GW also said they were doing a lot of playtesting with the new edition (gathing feedback several sundays for ~10h each) so I have high hopes for the balance to end up in a good spot with the initial release.

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El'mo
Shas'El
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#23 » Apr 25 2017 12:39

TauMan wrote:Sorry gents for getting late in on the discussion, Real LifeTM had a hold of me.

El'mo said:
And with my Mod hat on please remember the first rule on this forum...
1) Treat each other with respect whilst using family-appropriate language.

The Admin team may warn, delete, or ban users whose posts consistently fail to meet the criteria explained in our Membership Primers, which all members of ATT are expected to have read and understood before posting.

Czar Ziggy said:
The other thing to say and get out of the way as well is please no wish-listing for the new edition. This thread should be about discussing the coming changes that Games Workshop have put in stone. It's not productive when people start saying; "Maybe now Fire Warriors will get those heavy weapons finally!"

Carry on.


What's up Mods? Getting me kind of worried writing stuff like that? Do we need protection?


The point of these comments are to remind members of the rules of the board before anything is posted that may cause one of the moderation team to have to step in.

Believe it or not we are not trying to stifle the excitement or discussion on the new rules but we have seen things devolve on other sites and FB into rants and personal insults which go against the ethos of ATT.

All discussion from either viewpoint of 8th... it will be a complete disaster/the best thing since sliced bread or any position in-between is accepted as long as it is within the board rules.

Forewarned is forearmed... :fear:


AnonAmbientLight wrote:What we know so far:
Rules are written in Scottish

I would have expected a multi-lingual version ;)

Blade Runner
Shas'Saal
Posts: 62

Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#24 » Apr 25 2017 09:13

I am excited for 8th edition. I have been a long time modeller of GW, probably 17 years off and on, but never decided to play until this year. I did have and still some what do, having only been playing for 8 months a bit of a learning curve when it comes to the rules. So a clean up of the rules is exciting to me, also a 1500pt game being 90minutes, yes please (I have a baby so time to play is difficult to find).

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QimRas
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#25 » Apr 25 2017 01:08

Looks like Games Workshop has posted more information regarding unit profiles.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/201 ... -profiles/

The WS and BS changes in particular jump out at me. Looks like they have changes to static rolls instead of opposed, similar to how Armor Saves were. Kroot may end up more effective as melee fighters.

Also, I wonder how the changes to BS will change Markerlights.

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TauMan
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#26 » Apr 25 2017 01:27

El'mo wrote:The point of these comments are to remind members of the rules of the board before anything is posted that may cause one of the moderation team to have to step in.

Believe it or not we are not trying to stifle the excitement or discussion on the new rules but we have seen things devolve on other sites and FB into rants and personal insults which go against the ethos of ATT.

All discussion from either viewpoint of 8th... it will be a complete disaster/the best thing since sliced bread or any position in-between is accepted as long as it is within the board rules.

Forewarned is forearmed... :fear:


El'mo I gathered as such, and that was why I chose the "air raid warden" metaphor. And thanks to you and all the Mods for keeping the discussion so far civil and respectful. And to every member of A.T.T. as well, who has posted so far.
Image
Good job there lads!


The TauMan
When the Lights Go on Again - Vera Lynn
Last edited by TauMan on Apr 25 2017 01:43, edited 1 time in total.
Viro’los gu brath!
N.Y.A.B.X.T.T.

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Panzer
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Posts: 2355

Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#27 » Apr 25 2017 01:37

There we go! The first unit profiles!
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/25/warhammer-40000-unit-profiles/

  • Fix to-hit roll for both melee and ranged. Well the ranged one was always kinda fixed and the melee one was always 3+ or 4+ anyway so no big change here.
  • No Initiative stat anymore!
  • Marines have Movement 6 (Terminator has 5)
  • Dreadnought has T7, 8 wounds and a 3+ armor
  • Tactical Marines only have LD7 (keep in mind that we're getting the AoS Battleshock system unfortunately...)
  • Terminators with 2 wounds!

Tomorrow they'll give us weapon leaks!

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TauMan
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#28 » Apr 25 2017 01:48

Panzer wrote:There we go! The first unit profiles!


Oops QimRas just posted this! :roll:

Well, thanks anyways Panzer. With info about 8th edition coming so fast, members posting the same items was bound to happen.

TauMan
Smilin' Through - Vera Lynn
Viro’los gu brath!
N.Y.A.B.X.T.T.

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Panzer
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#29 » Apr 25 2017 01:50

TauMan wrote:
Panzer wrote:There we go! The first unit profiles!


Oops QimRas just posted this! :roll:

Well, thanks anyways Panzer. With info about 8th edition coming so fast, members posting the same items was bound to happen.

TauMan
Smilin' Through - Vera Lynn

Oh wow I didn't notice! The forum skipped to your post when I went for the first unread post for some reason. :-?


QimRas wrote:Looks like Games Workshop has posted more information regarding unit profiles.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/201 ... -profiles/

The WS and BS changes in particular jump out at me. Looks like they have changes to static rolls instead of opposed, similar to how Armor Saves were. Kroot may end up more effective as melee fighters.

Also, I wonder how the changes to BS will change Markerlights.

Not quite how Armor Saves were. The article mentions modifier for both kind of to-hit rolls. ;)
So it's quite possible that Markerlights simply give +1 to hit for each which would also at the same time affect to-hit modifier by cover etc.

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QimRas
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#30 » Apr 25 2017 01:54

Panzer wrote:
TauMan wrote:
Panzer wrote:There we go! The first unit profiles!


Oops QimRas just posted this! :roll:

Well, thanks anyways Panzer. With info about 8th edition coming so fast, members posting the same items was bound to happen.

TauMan
Smilin' Through - Vera Lynn

Oh wow I didn't notice! The forum skipped to your post when I went for the first unread post for some reason. :-?


No big deal. We all just want to share information! I totally missed Initiative disappearing though. I wonder how that will change CC after the first round.

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Panzer
Shas'La
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#31 » Apr 25 2017 01:56

QimRas wrote:I totally missed Initiative disappearing though. I wonder how that will change CC after the first round.

That's a really good question. Maybe it gets decided by the Movement or LD stat...or maybe the one whose turn it is decides who hits first or something like that.

Jacket
Shas'Saal
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#32 » Apr 25 2017 02:03

I keep hearing that movement is initiative.

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Panzer
Shas'La
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#33 » Apr 25 2017 02:16

Jacket wrote:I keep hearing that movement is initiative.

So far that would be 100% speculation.
I'm currently keeping taps on all official sourses for leaks because i'm kinda too hyped to play games or watch movies. :D

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TauMan
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#34 » Apr 25 2017 02:24

It states in the GW article that both Panzer and QimRas posted (paraphrasing here) that initiative goes to the unit charging. Or the unit charging in CC will strike first.

Ork players will like that for sure! :)

The TauMan
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N.Y.A.B.X.T.T.

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QimRas
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#35 » Apr 25 2017 02:34

Panzer wrote:
QimRas wrote:I totally missed Initiative disappearing though. I wonder how that will change CC after the first round.

That's a really good question. Maybe it gets decided by the Movement or LD stat...or maybe the one whose turn it is decides who hits first or something like that.

It may be inherited from the charge. Whoever charges first has the momentum the whole fight. Regardless, it opens up some new tactics for us if we are dropping one of our worst stats. Might make a charge by breachers less than suicide.

On another note, is anyone else getting the feeling that this edition is already done and very close to release? The information and diagrams they are showing certainly look polished, and they are acting like all the beta tests are already done and included.

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nic
Kroot'La
Posts: 743

Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#36 » Apr 25 2017 02:46

Panzer wrote:
QimRas wrote:I totally missed Initiative disappearing though. I wonder how that will change CC after the first round.

That's a really good question. Maybe it gets decided by the Movement or LD stat...or maybe the one whose turn it is decides who hits first or something like that.


Apparently it goes to alternating activation on subsequent turns

https://twitter.com/GeekJockPete/with_replies

So turn 1 initiative goes to the unit which charges, unless a Command Point is used to supersede this. Any ongoing combats then have alternating activation (I would guess that active player goes first but that is not confirmed).

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nic
Kroot'La
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#37 » Apr 25 2017 03:02

The other thing to mention from the twitter feed is that while Imperium and Chaos will be super-factions similar to AOS Grand Alliances - the Xenos will not. In his words Xenos are more granular.

So having Imhotek as our neighbor does not mean we have a new buddy, although I think the Necron fluff is that they are waking to deal with the Tyranids so there is that :dead:

For those who have not seen, some samples of the new statlines are up (for SM naturally)
https://www.warhammer-community.com/201 ... -profiles/

More wounds on big things probably correlate to weapon profiles where big weapons do multiple wounds - hinted at and we will see properly tomorrow.

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AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
Posts: 758

Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#38 » Apr 25 2017 03:16

It's way too early to be complaining about nerfs. It's way to early to be complaining that "ITC has it out for Tau" (which is demonstrably false). In fact, I would suggest it's way to early to be complaining about literally anything that we see because it is largely without context. We just got stat lines today, but we have no idea if they are good or not because we don't know what weapons do (we will find out tomorrow) and we do not know what the new overall rules will be.

As for Riptides, they are too strong and have been for awhile. Most armies do not bother shooting at them because they are too tanky. Most major tournaments see people running the Riptide wing in non-Tau armies because they are that good. Getting nerfed isn't a problem (although it doesn't feel good) and understanding how the nerf works within the entire framework of the game is important to consider too (IE, Tau get nerfed but other units get nerfed as well *Cough Warp spiders Cough*).

TL;DR: Pump your brakes guys, the game isn't even out yet.

As for today's announcement, this is great news. Custom movement speed for each individual models allow for more flexible balance. Most people I know were upset that Guilliman could only move 6in in the movement phase for 7th edition. This makes it really difficult for him to get into close combat, where he excels. 8th edition gives him a 8in movement range, which is a great improvement. In fact, I would wager that most "close combat" units will likely by in the 6-8in movement range.

Vehicles losing AV and hull points is huge as well. This can give the potential for under used units to see some more action. Things like Dreadnoughts could make a comeback, and even the piranha might see more use. It will undoubtedly make Hammerheads more of a solid choice because you won't have to worry about it getting popped early from lucky shots. This could give rise to a vehicle resurgence in the hobby.

At the very least, the meta will be shaken up, and that is what is most important here.
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

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