The run to 8th edition

Use this area for all discussions of the "gaming" aspect of 40K/Tau.
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Panzer
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#31 » Apr 25 2017 01:56

QimRas wrote:I totally missed Initiative disappearing though. I wonder how that will change CC after the first round.

That's a really good question. Maybe it gets decided by the Movement or LD stat...or maybe the one whose turn it is decides who hits first or something like that.

Jacket
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#32 » Apr 25 2017 02:03

I keep hearing that movement is initiative.

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Panzer
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#33 » Apr 25 2017 02:16

Jacket wrote:I keep hearing that movement is initiative.

So far that would be 100% speculation.
I'm currently keeping taps on all official sourses for leaks because i'm kinda too hyped to play games or watch movies. :D

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TauMan
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#34 » Apr 25 2017 02:24

It states in the GW article that both Panzer and QimRas posted (paraphrasing here) that initiative goes to the unit charging. Or the unit charging in CC will strike first.

Ork players will like that for sure! :)

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QimRas
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#35 » Apr 25 2017 02:34

Panzer wrote:
QimRas wrote:I totally missed Initiative disappearing though. I wonder how that will change CC after the first round.

That's a really good question. Maybe it gets decided by the Movement or LD stat...or maybe the one whose turn it is decides who hits first or something like that.

It may be inherited from the charge. Whoever charges first has the momentum the whole fight. Regardless, it opens up some new tactics for us if we are dropping one of our worst stats. Might make a charge by breachers less than suicide.

On another note, is anyone else getting the feeling that this edition is already done and very close to release? The information and diagrams they are showing certainly look polished, and they are acting like all the beta tests are already done and included.

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nic
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#36 » Apr 25 2017 02:46

Panzer wrote:
QimRas wrote:I totally missed Initiative disappearing though. I wonder how that will change CC after the first round.

That's a really good question. Maybe it gets decided by the Movement or LD stat...or maybe the one whose turn it is decides who hits first or something like that.


Apparently it goes to alternating activation on subsequent turns

https://twitter.com/GeekJockPete/with_replies

So turn 1 initiative goes to the unit which charges, unless a Command Point is used to supersede this. Any ongoing combats then have alternating activation (I would guess that active player goes first but that is not confirmed).

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nic
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#37 » Apr 25 2017 03:02

The other thing to mention from the twitter feed is that while Imperium and Chaos will be super-factions similar to AOS Grand Alliances - the Xenos will not. In his words Xenos are more granular.

So having Imhotek as our neighbor does not mean we have a new buddy, although I think the Necron fluff is that they are waking to deal with the Tyranids so there is that :dead:

For those who have not seen, some samples of the new statlines are up (for SM naturally)
https://www.warhammer-community.com/201 ... -profiles/

More wounds on big things probably correlate to weapon profiles where big weapons do multiple wounds - hinted at and we will see properly tomorrow.

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AnonAmbientLight
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#38 » Apr 25 2017 03:16

It's way too early to be complaining about nerfs. It's way to early to be complaining that "ITC has it out for Tau" (which is demonstrably false). In fact, I would suggest it's way to early to be complaining about literally anything that we see because it is largely without context. We just got stat lines today, but we have no idea if they are good or not because we don't know what weapons do (we will find out tomorrow) and we do not know what the new overall rules will be.

As for Riptides, they are too strong and have been for awhile. Most armies do not bother shooting at them because they are too tanky. Most major tournaments see people running the Riptide wing in non-Tau armies because they are that good. Getting nerfed isn't a problem (although it doesn't feel good) and understanding how the nerf works within the entire framework of the game is important to consider too (IE, Tau get nerfed but other units get nerfed as well *Cough Warp spiders Cough*).

TL;DR: Pump your brakes guys, the game isn't even out yet.

As for today's announcement, this is great news. Custom movement speed for each individual models allow for more flexible balance. Most people I know were upset that Guilliman could only move 6in in the movement phase for 7th edition. This makes it really difficult for him to get into close combat, where he excels. 8th edition gives him a 8in movement range, which is a great improvement. In fact, I would wager that most "close combat" units will likely by in the 6-8in movement range.

Vehicles losing AV and hull points is huge as well. This can give the potential for under used units to see some more action. Things like Dreadnoughts could make a comeback, and even the piranha might see more use. It will undoubtedly make Hammerheads more of a solid choice because you won't have to worry about it getting popped early from lucky shots. This could give rise to a vehicle resurgence in the hobby.

At the very least, the meta will be shaken up, and that is what is most important here.
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

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Panzer
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#39 » Apr 25 2017 03:25

Another very important thing I read on Pete Foleys twitter: Cover adds to saving throw.

We already knew (or suspected? I can't remember lol) that Cover won't be a seperate save anymore but so far most people thought it'll modify the to-hit roll. Now we know it won't affect the to-hit roll but rather the saving throw which is far better for games with big units imo.

So a Pathfinder that gets shot at with a Bolter might be down to a 6+ armor save (compared to having none currently!) but since he is in good cover has a 4+ save after all.
That is huge news! Especially because we probably can still ignore cover with Markerlights and hopefully our basic Pulse weaponry has a good armor modifier!

Jacket
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#40 » Apr 25 2017 05:57

I would imagine ML's swap to a -1 to save effect for cover per light expended.

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Tael
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#41 » Apr 25 2017 09:36

The initiative change concerned me a bit, however things like command points and other modifiers may make taking on Elites bit more believable.

I've seen too many instances of thugs attacking experts to know who -really- lands the first punch.

Game world wise, I can see said expert being overwhelmed as the mob swarms over their fallen from experts "reaction skill/event".

Ricordis
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#42 » Apr 26 2017 05:11

Well, with 8th's change for cover, our markerlights and pathfinders we might get more profit from terrain than our enemies did.

"Hey bro, wanna put all the terrain on the table?"
"No! There will be pathfinders everywhere!"

I am so excited if I could field my Pathfinders again in a competetive way.

Anyway, the release could be closer than we think as GW is offering refunds to people who bought a BRB/Codex in the last 8 weeks (2 months!). I don't think this would be the case if we had to wait two or more months from now on.
And we get some hellfire of informations. Hard to keep that rhythm if you have to stretch it out for multiple months while keeping customers excited.

Edit: Anyone afraid we might lose our Jump-Shoot-Jump if we look at how SW:A solved our XV25's Jetpack movement?

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Panzer
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#43 » Apr 26 2017 06:23

Uhm...not exactly 8th edition but maybe giving hints of future fluff development.

This weeks Rumour Engine post:
Image

Maybe that means Eldar (possibly the non-Ynnari faction) and Tau become official allies in fluff? That would Tau probably give the ability to appear wherever GW wants them to take part in the bigger Black Crusade campaign thanks to Webway access now.

Of course it would be even more awesome if the Eldar simply join the T'au Empire instead of becoming generic allies! :D
....maybe it's Exodites even. I mean GW already said we'll be seeing more new factions in the future. ;)

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QimRas
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#44 » Apr 26 2017 06:32

Ricordis wrote:Edit: Anyone afraid we might lose our Jump-Shoot-Jump if we look at how SW:A solved our XV25's Jetpack movement?


I am not worried as much. The rules for Shadow War seems to be a heavy divergence from the 8th rules, and seem to be a reprint of the Necromunda rules. The changes to WS and BS, as well as Shadow Wars heavy use of Initiative and 8ths total lack of that stat point to them not being very similar.

That said, I am excited to see what the weapon profiles look like today!

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Demorte
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#45 » Apr 26 2017 08:24

Age of Sigmar is a good game to look to for 8th edition gameplay.

Been playing AoS last few months, Picked up the new Kharador Overlords and looking over that book really gives a great insight into how 8th edition books will be formatted. I say will be because they touched on that during the Q&A.

I think we are entering a good era for the game. Our great faction the Tau, will have many things to adjust too. Hopefully some of the units we never fielded will be useful.

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QimRas
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#46 » Apr 26 2017 10:04

Looks like they just posted the weapon profiles.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/201 ... 0-weapons/

Seeing the Lascannon get a -3 armor mod makes me think there is very little chance that Pulse Rifles will have the -2 they do in Shadow War. The flamer change is also pretty major. I wonder if all template/blast weapons are going to act like that.

R.D.
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#47 » Apr 26 2017 10:09

On the one hand, I am slightly worried about Tau weapons, and the good old days of massed Fire warrior output.

On the other hand, as a Tyranid player too, the changes to combat and movement sound pretty welcoming to me... :)

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Unicornsilovethem
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#48 » Apr 26 2017 10:54

I guess Flamers just got twice as effective for Overwatch.

Either way, D weapons are officially gone and that makes me happy for the inevitable buff to rail weapons.

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