The run to 8th edition

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Panzer
Shas'La
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#1729 » Jun 09 2017 07:58

Shas'o Dre wrote:Hey Dawnstar, just curious as to how far the charge was, because if he was outside of 8" you could not have overwatched with flamers. My opponent pointed that out to me and made sure to keep his orks at 8.1 inches and with 'ere we go' he made the charge easy.


Pretty sure he knows
-Flamers are awesome. Forcing someone to make a long charge or take 2D6 flamers is really potent.

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Dawnstar
Shas'Saal
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#1730 » Jun 09 2017 08:02

Shas'o Dre wrote:Hey Dawnstar, just curious as to how far the charge was, because if he was outside of 8" you could not have overwatched with flamers. My opponent pointed that out to me and made sure to keep his orks at 8.1 inches and with 'ere we go' he made the charge easy.


Within 8", he disrespected the flamers :p

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Vector Strike
Shas'La
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#1731 » Jun 09 2017 09:11

BillyBones wrote:I have dive through the indexes some more and added some more ideas on my list.

ML - as I stated before more suitable version would be 1 hit = ignore movement penalty + seekers (hit on 2+), 2 hits = +1 BS, 3 hits = ignore cover + destroyers (hit on models BS), 4 hits = + 1 BS, 5 hits = reroll to hit

Seekers do d3 mortal wounds, Destroyers do 3+d3

Skyray - twin seeker launcher - can shood 2d3 missiles per turn, on a roll of double (the number on a dice) it runs out of ammo, it could go up in price a little.

HH - ion overchared profile should be heavy d6 dmg 3, normal profile dmg 3, railgun shoud do flat 6 damage + d6 mortal wound, submunition dmg 2

Supremacy RG (heavy 2, no submunition)

Vehicles should be able to take support systems

HRR dmage 3+d3 + d3 mortal wounds; RR heavy 1, damage 3 + 1 mortal wound

Ethereal should be Ld 10, all HQ shoud have Ld bubble 6'' (not sure if the already don't)

Long shot pulse rifle - AP -1, on roll of 6 to wound - 1 mortal wound

Quad ion - assault 4, overcharged heavy d6 (od possible 4 ion rifles together - RF 4, overcharged )

Pulse blast cannon should have dmage 2 on the last profile, Pulse driver cannon should be heavy d6

SMS should always ignore penaly for moving.

All suit weapons should be assault (except broadside weapons of course), overchard/nova profiles could go heavy, fusion collider should be assault 3

Drone squads should be trated as characters, should give up VP and score. Interceptor drones are modeled with two ion rifles and they could have those.

Wargear - Target lock - ignore all penalties to BS (movement and enemy abities), Multitracker - always reroll 1 (although I think the names should be switched ;-))

Point changes (considering upgrades mentined above):
Crisis should have base cost of 35, Riptide 180, Stormsurge 200,
MP/CIB/FB 15, Flamer 5,
SMS 12, RR - 15, HRR 50, HYMP 30, railgun/ion cannon 45, quad ion 30, CIR/FC 30, HBC 40, ion acc. - 65, PDC 70, Cluster rocket system 45


Interesting points, and I agree with most of them. However, I suggest you to save a .txt with that information and see if they are really required in the field of battle. If so, post them at the future living FAQ!

BillyBones
Shas'La
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#1732 » Jun 09 2017 11:02

Vector Strike wrote:Interesting points, and I agree with most of them. However, I suggest you to save a .txt with that information and see if they are really required in the field of battle. If so, post them at the future living FAQ!


You know what the sad thing is? Most of those changes woudn't affect our outcome against CC armies, but against shooty armies.

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Vector Strike
Shas'La
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#1733 » Jun 09 2017 11:40

BillyBones wrote:
Vector Strike wrote:Interesting points, and I agree with most of them. However, I suggest you to save a .txt with that information and see if they are really required in the field of battle. If so, post them at the future living FAQ!


You know what the sad thing is? Most of those changes woudn't affect our outcome against CC armies, but against shooty armies.


after reading/watching a bunch of BRs, I'd say were fine against CC armies. Real shooty stuff, like Necrons, Eldar, AdMech and Marines, are what worries me

shocker
Shas'Saal
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#1734 » Jun 09 2017 12:44

For 8th, it seems tau is going to need a lot of LOS blocking terrain to be scary, preferably ruins.

Gun drones are simply our best unit for dealing with low wound models, and have amazing utility. There's talk about vespids being good in 8th while they arn't bad the only thing they have going for them compared to gun drones is they can deep strike. As gun drones out preform them in ever way except vs 2+ armor, but once you add a drone controller they out preform there too point wise.

stealth suits probably being the go to battlesuit for a cheap drone controller. Seeing as drone can protect them, basically impossible for your opponent to remove them if they are in the front line. (As lone as drones are still alive, which if they arn't then don't really need the DC any more)

Commander with 4 FB being our best short range unit for dealing with high wound count. Either sticking behind our front line where it cant be touched, or deep striking behind enemies lines to take out high value targets. Role basically depending on the enemies army

Ghostkeels seem like a solid flanking unit with FB and FC. While not as cost effective as a commander for their damage out put, they make up for with survivability. Possibility with a gun drone escort to deal with infantry chasing it down, and extra wounds. If terrain permits, moving it up the side, peaking it around terrain (ideally in 50% cover) with the stealth drones out of LOS. It would have a -2 to hit with a 2+ armor save. Small arms fire wouldn't be able to dent it, while any high power shots lucky enough to hit merely get placed on a drone. Making it next to unkillable that turn.

As for front line long range fire support, stromsurge with AT is simply the most cost efficient. If your looking for something less of a point investment or want FTGG, there is broadsides and heavy weapon pathfinders. Broadsides while not cost effective might be decent as they wont be easy to remove form the board with near by drones to make up for their low wound count. Pathfinders can put out decent fire power, but will be easier to pick off.

Talk of kroot used as screening unit, wounder how well that would work out. As it means your front line will probably be 4+ inches closer to the enemy. As you need to make sure they cant consolidate into your next line. This means they might be making it in 1 turn sooner, possibility making them worthless (as they would be slaughter by any melee focused unit) or even a determent as it could make the enemies army advance faster.

Kroot hounds could be a very viable unit as they are so keep and good at melee. Have them charge in once the enemy gets close. Their terrible leadership means you may want to take only min squads thus basically handing going first to your opponent. Down side is the models (and gun drones) are money wise pricey for the number you would want to run

To round out the front line can add FW for a early volley at infantry. With a fireblade they arn't that much worse then a gun drone at short range. Also they can be your ML provider, allowing you to spread them across the map instead of being only a unit or 2 of pathfinders. As you really only need 1 ML hit now days, or 2 for destroyer missiles.

One interesting front line formation that tau can do is using 2nd floors of ruins as an unchargeable front point. Load the floor with infantry/flying units so no other model could fit, then place a decent amount of drones near the rear of the building (within 3 inches of the unit on top). Any shooting wounds are placed on the drones, so they cant shoot a hole for their infantry. If i understand the charge rules correctly unless they remove a model from the 2nd floor, they cant get into melee range of your unit on the second floor.

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nic
Kroot'La
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#1735 » Jun 09 2017 01:51

shocker wrote:For 8th, it seems tau is going to need a lot of LOS blocking terrain to be scary, preferably ruins.

Gun drones are simply our best unit for dealing with low wound models, and have amazing utility. There's talk about vespids being good in 8th while they arn't bad the only thing they have going for them compared to gun drones is they can deep strike. As gun drones out preform them in ever way except vs 2+ armor, but once you add a drone controller they out preform there too point wise.


I have been singing the praises of gun drones but they do have some real limitations. A canny opponent can use Target Identification Protocols against you. Vespid on the other hand are excellent at putting shots exactly where you want - e.g picking off an incorrectly or insufficiently bubble-wrapped Character.

One poses a straightforward threat but invites your opponent to try to put you at a severe positional disadvantage. The other threatens your opponent with being put in a severe positional disadvantage. I believe it is the combination of the two that makes for a real challenge that only the best opponents will be comfortable countering.

shocker wrote:stealth suits probably being the go to battlesuit for a cheap drone controller. Seeing as drone can protect them, basically impossible for your opponent to remove them if they are in the front line. (As lone as drones are still alive, which if they arn't then don't really need the DC any more)


I tend to agree, the alternative for me is a Coldstar commander who can sit and wait a couple of turns in the safety of the drone swarm to decide when to go hyper-mobile to exploit an opportunity. Admittedly I just like speedy units, you are probably right in terms of efficiency.

shocker wrote:Commander with 4 FB being our best short range unit for dealing with high wound count. Either sticking behind our front line where it cant be touched, or deep striking behind enemies lines to take out high value targets. Role basically depending on the enemies army


I feel this works well with the drone swarm because it counters the most obvious counter-tactic to the drones: putting a really resilient hard target close to the drones to draw their fire. Massed melta loves exactly the targets that drones do not want to be shooting. Put a Homing Beacon with those Stealth Suits for defensive Low Altitude Deployment into half range :dead:

shocker wrote:Talk of kroot used as screening unit, wounder how well that would work out. As it means your front line will probably be 4+ inches closer to the enemy. As you need to make sure they cant consolidate into your next line. This means they might be making it in 1 turn sooner, possibility making them worthless (as they would be slaughter by any melee focused unit) or even a determent as it could make the enemies army advance faster.


It really does depend what your opponent is throwing at you. Kroot can hold up Rhino rush really well. They die horribly to turn 1 charges from Magnus the Red but then so does anything else we have - so they are useful even there. I do not believe Kroot are the all-purpose answer to everything but will probably be running 30 or so in my 2000 point lists.

shocker wrote:Kroot hounds could be a very viable unit as they are so keep and good at melee. Have them charge in once the enemy gets close. Their terrible leadership means you may want to take only min squads thus basically handing going first to your opponent. Down side is the models (and gun drones) are money wise pricey for the number you would want to run


Yes the price of the Kroot Hounds in real money is the issue. As an assault unit I think their Voracious Predator rule tells you who they are best at assaulting - depleted units which you would like to finish off. I am currently running a unit of 8 and am quite happy with their performance. For such a low cost their ability to swarm objectives also has value.


shocker wrote:One interesting front line formation that tau can do is using 2nd floors of ruins as an unchargeable front point. Load the floor with infantry/flying units so no other model could fit, then place a decent amount of drones near the rear of the building (within 3 inches of the unit on top). Any shooting wounds are placed on the drones, so they cant shoot a hole for their infantry. If i understand the charge rules correctly unless they remove a model from the 2nd floor, they cant get into melee range of your unit on the second floor.


So far as I know you are correct. Until I have a BRB in my hands with plenty of time to read through I would not want to be relying on a rules interpretation such as this.

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Tael
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#1736 » Jun 09 2017 06:54

A bit off topic, but just want to thank all the members interested in this thread for well written comments, respectful debate and discussion on this new system and rules for our Tau.

It is an exciting time and the admin team are aiming to keep the conversations flowing, so excuse the odd nudge or two from us, we mean well.

Right, thats all from old Fio'O me. Thanks all :D

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Raikoh067
Shas'La
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#1737 » Jun 09 2017 07:07

I don't think the question I'm about to ask needs it own thread, so this is the best place I can think of to ask it.

Each crisis suit in a squad can take 2 drones, as part of list building. Once they hit the table, all drones in that unit form their own seperate unit. So if I take a squad of 9 suits, does that make a single unit of 18 drones? Or am I wrong from the beginning, and it's 9 seperate units of 2? If the latter is the case, bringing drone addons for wounds is basically foreiting a kill points game...

Ted the Tau
Shas'La
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#1738 » Jun 09 2017 08:03

Raikoh067 wrote:I don't think the question I'm about to ask needs it own thread, so this is the best place I can think of to ask it.

Each crisis suit in a squad can take 2 drones, as part of list building. Once they hit the table, all drones in that unit form their own seperate unit. So if I take a squad of 9 suits, does that make a single unit of 18 drones? Or am I wrong from the beginning, and it's 9 seperate units of 2? If the latter is the case, bringing drone addons for wounds is basically foreiting a kill points game...


If all Crisis Suits are part of one unit, all their drones form one unit as well.

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shasocastris
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#1739 » Jun 09 2017 10:57

As with all good things, this thread must come to an end. This is not aimed at any one aspect of this thread in particular, but rather that is has become a clunky piece of machinery. We essentially have 8th edition and so there is no reason to continue using a single thread when we have the whole orbital to discuss how our army has changed in the new addition. There are a variety of posts now across the concourse that are dealing with specific aspects of 8th edition, so I refer all of you to those in going forward with our beloved Tau. This post will remain as an archive of the many discussions and ideas that have cropped up in the initial days of 8th as we go forward into the new days of Warhammer 40,000.

Fraternal regards,
shasocastris

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