The run to 8th edition

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TauMan
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#19 » Apr 24 2017 07:17

Sorry gents for getting late in on the discussion, Real LifeTM had a hold of me.

El'mo said:
And with my Mod hat on please remember the first rule on this forum...
1) Treat each other with respect whilst using family-appropriate language.

The Admin team may warn, delete, or ban users whose posts consistently fail to meet the criteria explained in our Membership Primers, which all members of ATT are expected to have read and understood before posting.

Czar Ziggy said:
The other thing to say and get out of the way as well is please no wish-listing for the new edition. This thread should be about discussing the coming changes that Games Workshop have put in stone. It's not productive when people start saying; "Maybe now Fire Warriors will get those heavy weapons finally!"

Carry on.


What's up Mods? Getting me kind of worried writing stuff like that? Do we need protection?
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It seem "most" members are showing some excitement, which might be a little premature...
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But then again some us might need a little reassurance at such a radical change?
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After all 8th edition, blows up everything we understood to be Warhammer 40,0000.
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And so it begins...
With the Fall of Warhammer Fantasy, and with the installation of the Vichy Regime a.k.a. Age of Sigmar; Games Workshop shifts it gaze across the Damocles Gulf to Warhammer 40,000. Launching 8th edition across the vastness of the Warp, they rain down vast destruction upon the unexpected fandom of WH40K.


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Will this be any good, I don't know?
It's Games Workshop.

I expect a typical "bell curve" result: incredible, 'knock-it-out-of-the-ballpark" rules, with a lot of mediocre stuff in the middle; and on the other end really, really bad rules. And when I mean "bad", I mean the typical Games Workshop ill conceived, half-thought out and confusing rules. And when has it ever be any different? From Rouge Trader to 7th edition, it's generally been the same. Yes, over the years things have gotten better in some respects; but always with same overall lack of consistency and focus. Sometimes it really hits the skids. Who can forget the atrocity that was 4th edition, when the rule book itself was such a travesty that you had to tab the pages just to keep track of what was going on? Since rules, hobby stuff, and fluff were all mixed higgly-piggly altogether! With the rules for the original "Kill Team" stuck stuck right in the middle(???)

Anyone could make a list of their favorite GW atrocities, for whatever edition you want to name; but I leave everyone to groan to themselves on this one. However I'd just like to mention two very recent events: Kill Team (New) and Shadow War: Armageddon.

The first one is just a watered down small point 7th edition game, and the other a mishmash of 3rd and 7th edition with (for no other reason than it is a GW product) the words "Kill Teams" stuck to it?

Uh, what? Isn't there already another game with "Kill Teams" or "Kill Team" in it's title?

Of course GW knew that 8th edition was coming out, so anything based on 3rd or 7th edition was going to be obsolete.

Why was was this, I don't know?
Because it's Games Workshop?

And to those willing to keep up the fight...
We can't change or challenge what's coming; but to help you keep your chin up during the "grim darkness of the near future", here is Winston Churchill's We Shall Never Surrender speech.


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Tally-ho chaps! Tally-ho!


The TauMan
And to keep in the spirit of Britain 1940, here's a selection of Vera Lynn songs:
We’ll Meet Again
The White Cliffs of Dover
When I Grow Too Old To Dream
Last edited by TauMan on Apr 24 2017 08:43, edited 2 times in total.
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Jacket
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#20 » Apr 24 2017 07:54

Sounds like Tau nerf edition inbound. I heard the frontline guys and some other sites testing the rules for 8th and offering balance feedback. More than any other faction they nerfed Tau despite the fact that for the longest time until this year Tau were not even placing in the top 15. I always hear them complaining about the Taunar being so OP and needing to be nerfed and saying the fact that Tau is only viable with it says a lot.

What does that mean Reecie? What do you want the Tau players to use in the ITC exactly? All the overnerfed stuff you toned down on them? Can you blame them when its the only option left?

I'm definitely worried with them having say in the rules. Thankfully other major tournament organizers are also providing feedback and Frankie likes the Tau.

I'm okay with Tau nerfs if they are done with balance in mind to every other faction and not over-nerfed like so many video game companies do when the mobs come. That is not my problem and why I'm making this post. If we don't see all the other even more powerful stuff than anything the Tau has nerfed alongside them fairly then we know there is probably a bias issue.

Edit
I'll try and remain hopeful mods.

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Vector Strike
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#21 » Apr 24 2017 08:55

Jacket wrote:Sounds like Tau nerf edition inbound. I heard the frontline guys and some other sites testing the rules for 8th and offering balance feedback. More than any other faction they nerfed Tau despite the fact that for the longest time until this year Tau were not even placing in the top 15. I always hear them complaining about the Taunar being so OP and needing to be nerfed and saying the fact that Tau is only viable with it says a lot.

What does that mean Reecie? What do you want the Tau players to use in the ITC exactly? All the overnerfed stuff you toned down on them? Can you blame them when its the only option left?

I'm definitely worried with them having say in the rules. Thankfully other major tournament organizers are also providing feedback and Frankie likes the Tau.

I'm okay with Tau nerfs if they are done with balance in mind to every other faction and not over-nerfed like so many video game companies do when the mobs come. That is not my problem and why I'm making this post. If we don't see all the other even more powerful stuff than anything the Tau has nerfed alongside them fairly then we know there is probably a bias issue.

Edit
I'll try and remain hopeful mods.


I agree, ITC organizers have problems with Tau. I fear what they may have done with the army.

Of course, some stuff needed to be toned down (Riptide, Tau'nar), but let's hope it wasn't too much.
On the other hand, GW said this will be the most balanced edition of all. Mayhaps we can use Vespids as a serious threat in the battlefield?

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Panzer
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#22 » Apr 24 2017 10:45

A Tau nerf isn't necessarily bad if the other big ones get nerfed as well and the weak ones buffed so we meet in the middle though. It all depends on what exactly and how much gets nerfed.

GW also said they were doing a lot of playtesting with the new edition (gathing feedback several sundays for ~10h each) so I have high hopes for the balance to end up in a good spot with the initial release.

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El'mo
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#23 » Apr 25 2017 12:39

TauMan wrote:Sorry gents for getting late in on the discussion, Real LifeTM had a hold of me.

El'mo said:
And with my Mod hat on please remember the first rule on this forum...
1) Treat each other with respect whilst using family-appropriate language.

The Admin team may warn, delete, or ban users whose posts consistently fail to meet the criteria explained in our Membership Primers, which all members of ATT are expected to have read and understood before posting.

Czar Ziggy said:
The other thing to say and get out of the way as well is please no wish-listing for the new edition. This thread should be about discussing the coming changes that Games Workshop have put in stone. It's not productive when people start saying; "Maybe now Fire Warriors will get those heavy weapons finally!"

Carry on.


What's up Mods? Getting me kind of worried writing stuff like that? Do we need protection?


The point of these comments are to remind members of the rules of the board before anything is posted that may cause one of the moderation team to have to step in.

Believe it or not we are not trying to stifle the excitement or discussion on the new rules but we have seen things devolve on other sites and FB into rants and personal insults which go against the ethos of ATT.

All discussion from either viewpoint of 8th... it will be a complete disaster/the best thing since sliced bread or any position in-between is accepted as long as it is within the board rules.

Forewarned is forearmed... :fear:


AnonAmbientLight wrote:What we know so far:
Rules are written in Scottish

I would have expected a multi-lingual version ;)

Blade Runner
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#24 » Apr 25 2017 09:13

I am excited for 8th edition. I have been a long time modeller of GW, probably 17 years off and on, but never decided to play until this year. I did have and still some what do, having only been playing for 8 months a bit of a learning curve when it comes to the rules. So a clean up of the rules is exciting to me, also a 1500pt game being 90minutes, yes please (I have a baby so time to play is difficult to find).

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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#25 » Apr 25 2017 01:08

Looks like Games Workshop has posted more information regarding unit profiles.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/201 ... -profiles/

The WS and BS changes in particular jump out at me. Looks like they have changes to static rolls instead of opposed, similar to how Armor Saves were. Kroot may end up more effective as melee fighters.

Also, I wonder how the changes to BS will change Markerlights.

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TauMan
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#26 » Apr 25 2017 01:27

El'mo wrote:The point of these comments are to remind members of the rules of the board before anything is posted that may cause one of the moderation team to have to step in.

Believe it or not we are not trying to stifle the excitement or discussion on the new rules but we have seen things devolve on other sites and FB into rants and personal insults which go against the ethos of ATT.

All discussion from either viewpoint of 8th... it will be a complete disaster/the best thing since sliced bread or any position in-between is accepted as long as it is within the board rules.

Forewarned is forearmed... :fear:


El'mo I gathered as such, and that was why I chose the "air raid warden" metaphor. And thanks to you and all the Mods for keeping the discussion so far civil and respectful. And to every member of A.T.T. as well, who has posted so far.
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Good job there lads!


The TauMan
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Last edited by TauMan on Apr 25 2017 01:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Panzer
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#27 » Apr 25 2017 01:37

There we go! The first unit profiles!
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/25/warhammer-40000-unit-profiles/

  • Fix to-hit roll for both melee and ranged. Well the ranged one was always kinda fixed and the melee one was always 3+ or 4+ anyway so no big change here.
  • No Initiative stat anymore!
  • Marines have Movement 6 (Terminator has 5)
  • Dreadnought has T7, 8 wounds and a 3+ armor
  • Tactical Marines only have LD7 (keep in mind that we're getting the AoS Battleshock system unfortunately...)
  • Terminators with 2 wounds!

Tomorrow they'll give us weapon leaks!

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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#28 » Apr 25 2017 01:48

Panzer wrote:There we go! The first unit profiles!


Oops QimRas just posted this! :roll:

Well, thanks anyways Panzer. With info about 8th edition coming so fast, members posting the same items was bound to happen.

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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#29 » Apr 25 2017 01:50

TauMan wrote:
Panzer wrote:There we go! The first unit profiles!


Oops QimRas just posted this! :roll:

Well, thanks anyways Panzer. With info about 8th edition coming so fast, members posting the same items was bound to happen.

TauMan
Smilin' Through - Vera Lynn

Oh wow I didn't notice! The forum skipped to your post when I went for the first unread post for some reason. :-?


QimRas wrote:Looks like Games Workshop has posted more information regarding unit profiles.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/201 ... -profiles/

The WS and BS changes in particular jump out at me. Looks like they have changes to static rolls instead of opposed, similar to how Armor Saves were. Kroot may end up more effective as melee fighters.

Also, I wonder how the changes to BS will change Markerlights.

Not quite how Armor Saves were. The article mentions modifier for both kind of to-hit rolls. ;)
So it's quite possible that Markerlights simply give +1 to hit for each which would also at the same time affect to-hit modifier by cover etc.

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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#30 » Apr 25 2017 01:54

Panzer wrote:
TauMan wrote:
Panzer wrote:There we go! The first unit profiles!


Oops QimRas just posted this! :roll:

Well, thanks anyways Panzer. With info about 8th edition coming so fast, members posting the same items was bound to happen.

TauMan
Smilin' Through - Vera Lynn

Oh wow I didn't notice! The forum skipped to your post when I went for the first unread post for some reason. :-?


No big deal. We all just want to share information! I totally missed Initiative disappearing though. I wonder how that will change CC after the first round.

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Panzer
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#31 » Apr 25 2017 01:56

QimRas wrote:I totally missed Initiative disappearing though. I wonder how that will change CC after the first round.

That's a really good question. Maybe it gets decided by the Movement or LD stat...or maybe the one whose turn it is decides who hits first or something like that.

Jacket
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#32 » Apr 25 2017 02:03

I keep hearing that movement is initiative.

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Panzer
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#33 » Apr 25 2017 02:16

Jacket wrote:I keep hearing that movement is initiative.

So far that would be 100% speculation.
I'm currently keeping taps on all official sourses for leaks because i'm kinda too hyped to play games or watch movies. :D

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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#34 » Apr 25 2017 02:24

It states in the GW article that both Panzer and QimRas posted (paraphrasing here) that initiative goes to the unit charging. Or the unit charging in CC will strike first.

Ork players will like that for sure! :)

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QimRas
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#35 » Apr 25 2017 02:34

Panzer wrote:
QimRas wrote:I totally missed Initiative disappearing though. I wonder how that will change CC after the first round.

That's a really good question. Maybe it gets decided by the Movement or LD stat...or maybe the one whose turn it is decides who hits first or something like that.

It may be inherited from the charge. Whoever charges first has the momentum the whole fight. Regardless, it opens up some new tactics for us if we are dropping one of our worst stats. Might make a charge by breachers less than suicide.

On another note, is anyone else getting the feeling that this edition is already done and very close to release? The information and diagrams they are showing certainly look polished, and they are acting like all the beta tests are already done and included.

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nic
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#36 » Apr 25 2017 02:46

Panzer wrote:
QimRas wrote:I totally missed Initiative disappearing though. I wonder how that will change CC after the first round.

That's a really good question. Maybe it gets decided by the Movement or LD stat...or maybe the one whose turn it is decides who hits first or something like that.


Apparently it goes to alternating activation on subsequent turns

https://twitter.com/GeekJockPete/with_replies

So turn 1 initiative goes to the unit which charges, unless a Command Point is used to supersede this. Any ongoing combats then have alternating activation (I would guess that active player goes first but that is not confirmed).

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