The run to 8th edition

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nic
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#37 » Apr 25 2017 03:02

The other thing to mention from the twitter feed is that while Imperium and Chaos will be super-factions similar to AOS Grand Alliances - the Xenos will not. In his words Xenos are more granular.

So having Imhotek as our neighbor does not mean we have a new buddy, although I think the Necron fluff is that they are waking to deal with the Tyranids so there is that :dead:

For those who have not seen, some samples of the new statlines are up (for SM naturally)
https://www.warhammer-community.com/201 ... -profiles/

More wounds on big things probably correlate to weapon profiles where big weapons do multiple wounds - hinted at and we will see properly tomorrow.

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AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#38 » Apr 25 2017 03:16

It's way too early to be complaining about nerfs. It's way to early to be complaining that "ITC has it out for Tau" (which is demonstrably false). In fact, I would suggest it's way to early to be complaining about literally anything that we see because it is largely without context. We just got stat lines today, but we have no idea if they are good or not because we don't know what weapons do (we will find out tomorrow) and we do not know what the new overall rules will be.

As for Riptides, they are too strong and have been for awhile. Most armies do not bother shooting at them because they are too tanky. Most major tournaments see people running the Riptide wing in non-Tau armies because they are that good. Getting nerfed isn't a problem (although it doesn't feel good) and understanding how the nerf works within the entire framework of the game is important to consider too (IE, Tau get nerfed but other units get nerfed as well *Cough Warp spiders Cough*).

TL;DR: Pump your brakes guys, the game isn't even out yet.

As for today's announcement, this is great news. Custom movement speed for each individual models allow for more flexible balance. Most people I know were upset that Guilliman could only move 6in in the movement phase for 7th edition. This makes it really difficult for him to get into close combat, where he excels. 8th edition gives him a 8in movement range, which is a great improvement. In fact, I would wager that most "close combat" units will likely by in the 6-8in movement range.

Vehicles losing AV and hull points is huge as well. This can give the potential for under used units to see some more action. Things like Dreadnoughts could make a comeback, and even the piranha might see more use. It will undoubtedly make Hammerheads more of a solid choice because you won't have to worry about it getting popped early from lucky shots. This could give rise to a vehicle resurgence in the hobby.

At the very least, the meta will be shaken up, and that is what is most important here.
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

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Panzer
Shas'La
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#39 » Apr 25 2017 03:25

Another very important thing I read on Pete Foleys twitter: Cover adds to saving throw.

We already knew (or suspected? I can't remember lol) that Cover won't be a seperate save anymore but so far most people thought it'll modify the to-hit roll. Now we know it won't affect the to-hit roll but rather the saving throw which is far better for games with big units imo.

So a Pathfinder that gets shot at with a Bolter might be down to a 6+ armor save (compared to having none currently!) but since he is in good cover has a 4+ save after all.
That is huge news! Especially because we probably can still ignore cover with Markerlights and hopefully our basic Pulse weaponry has a good armor modifier!

Jacket
Shas'Saal
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#40 » Apr 25 2017 05:57

I would imagine ML's swap to a -1 to save effect for cover per light expended.

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Tael
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#41 » Apr 25 2017 09:36

The initiative change concerned me a bit, however things like command points and other modifiers may make taking on Elites bit more believable.

I've seen too many instances of thugs attacking experts to know who -really- lands the first punch.

Game world wise, I can see said expert being overwhelmed as the mob swarms over their fallen from experts "reaction skill/event".

Ricordis
Shas'La
Posts: 262

Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#42 » Apr 26 2017 05:11

Well, with 8th's change for cover, our markerlights and pathfinders we might get more profit from terrain than our enemies did.

"Hey bro, wanna put all the terrain on the table?"
"No! There will be pathfinders everywhere!"

I am so excited if I could field my Pathfinders again in a competetive way.

Anyway, the release could be closer than we think as GW is offering refunds to people who bought a BRB/Codex in the last 8 weeks (2 months!). I don't think this would be the case if we had to wait two or more months from now on.
And we get some hellfire of informations. Hard to keep that rhythm if you have to stretch it out for multiple months while keeping customers excited.

Edit: Anyone afraid we might lose our Jump-Shoot-Jump if we look at how SW:A solved our XV25's Jetpack movement?

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Panzer
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#43 » Apr 26 2017 06:23

Uhm...not exactly 8th edition but maybe giving hints of future fluff development.

This weeks Rumour Engine post:
Image

Maybe that means Eldar (possibly the non-Ynnari faction) and Tau become official allies in fluff? That would Tau probably give the ability to appear wherever GW wants them to take part in the bigger Black Crusade campaign thanks to Webway access now.

Of course it would be even more awesome if the Eldar simply join the T'au Empire instead of becoming generic allies! :D
....maybe it's Exodites even. I mean GW already said we'll be seeing more new factions in the future. ;)

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QimRas
Shas'Saal
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#44 » Apr 26 2017 06:32

Ricordis wrote:Edit: Anyone afraid we might lose our Jump-Shoot-Jump if we look at how SW:A solved our XV25's Jetpack movement?


I am not worried as much. The rules for Shadow War seems to be a heavy divergence from the 8th rules, and seem to be a reprint of the Necromunda rules. The changes to WS and BS, as well as Shadow Wars heavy use of Initiative and 8ths total lack of that stat point to them not being very similar.

That said, I am excited to see what the weapon profiles look like today!

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Demorte
Gue'La
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#45 » Apr 26 2017 08:24

Age of Sigmar is a good game to look to for 8th edition gameplay.

Been playing AoS last few months, Picked up the new Kharador Overlords and looking over that book really gives a great insight into how 8th edition books will be formatted. I say will be because they touched on that during the Q&A.

I think we are entering a good era for the game. Our great faction the Tau, will have many things to adjust too. Hopefully some of the units we never fielded will be useful.

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QimRas
Shas'Saal
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#46 » Apr 26 2017 10:04

Looks like they just posted the weapon profiles.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/201 ... 0-weapons/

Seeing the Lascannon get a -3 armor mod makes me think there is very little chance that Pulse Rifles will have the -2 they do in Shadow War. The flamer change is also pretty major. I wonder if all template/blast weapons are going to act like that.

R.D.
Shas'La
Posts: 541

Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#47 » Apr 26 2017 10:09

On the one hand, I am slightly worried about Tau weapons, and the good old days of massed Fire warrior output.

On the other hand, as a Tyranid player too, the changes to combat and movement sound pretty welcoming to me... :)

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Unicornsilovethem
Shas'Saal
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#48 » Apr 26 2017 10:54

I guess Flamers just got twice as effective for Overwatch.

Either way, D weapons are officially gone and that makes me happy for the inevitable buff to rail weapons.

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Panzer
Shas'La
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#49 » Apr 26 2017 11:22

QimRas wrote:I wonder if all template/blast weapons are going to act like that.

They will. It's already confirmed that blasts and scatter dice are gone. ;)

I still need to get used to AP0 Bolter. Suddenly our Pathfinder aren't just cannonfodder! They get a 5+ save against damn Bolter and even better if they are in cover! So happy!

Flamer is interesting. d6 hits is ~3,5 on average so at max range it's more than you could have with a template but if you are close enough to kick them it's less. Then again it's more against single targets so that's pretty nice as well.
Gonna playtest my double flamer Monat a lot in 8th to decide whether I still like him or not. :D


I hope Our Pulse weaponry gets at least AP-1 but I kinda doubt it. S5 is still really good and i'm sure we will still be able to ignore or reduce cover with Markerlights.

Unicornsilovethem wrote:Either way, D weapons are officially gone and that makes me happy for the inevitable buff to rail weapons.

D weapons gone sounds awesome but to be real they just got streamlined into the new system since without super heavies, no cap at 10 for stats and heavy weapons doing multiple damage they aren't that much different anymore.
Can't wait to see how Rail weapons will be in 8th. It's a shame that my favorite weapon is so weak in 7th!

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Unicornsilovethem
Shas'Saal
Posts: 278

Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#50 » Apr 26 2017 01:36

Panzer wrote:D weapons gone sounds awesome but to be real they just got streamlined into the new system since without super heavies, no cap at 10 for stats and heavy weapons doing multiple damage they aren't that much different anymore.
Can't wait to see how Rail weapons will be in 8th. It's a shame that my favorite weapon is so weak in 7th!

Well yeah, I mean, we no longer have the single step from the gun that always does one wound immediately up to the one that does 12 wounds. Before anything of 8th was revealed, quite a few people have suggested a form of "D light" for railguns since 1 wound isn't enough and D is stupid. And now we'll probably get something like that. Feels good man, even if there are still old D guns that still outshine it. I glued the railguns to my Hammerhead and haven't been able to use Ion since figuring out it's usually much better

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Elphiel
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#51 » Apr 26 2017 03:27

The big advantage in my opinion with something like W6 damage is the linear scale. If such kind of linear scale stays even with more powerful weapons i will be very happy.

What has bugged my a lot with d weapon and other is the principle of 1=no effect, 2-5=some slight effect, 6=dead dead dead!

Ricordis
Shas'La
Posts: 262

Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#52 » Apr 26 2017 04:46

8th Edition - Return of the Railgun
If the Heavy Railrifle comes with the same stats with the LasGun it might be a huge buff comparing to the HYMP. While both might be able to generate the same amount of wounds the HRR may distribute them to only one model but with a far higher chance by being stronger.

I'd like to know how weapons do interact with FnP if it will be a thing in the next edition.
(I started to field HRRs against Death Companies because they are better at killing at least one marine than the missiles are)

D6 wounds is a really broad spectrum. Starting with "Oh man, useless shot" up to "Oh my god! It just atomized your model!"
D3+1 maybe? Does GW work with these RPG-esque stalines? ^^

Anyone an idea how deep strikes might work without scatter dice?
Or initiative based rules/equipment like defense grenades or vectored retro thrusters?

Edit:
On that picture Panzer posted; I see a Farseer rune (Aeldari), some kind of strange T'au sept marking and both seem to be part of a circle. Also there's a skull with jaw-claws, i think. Tyranids or Gene-Stealers maybe? Could lead to the Xenos Book Cover.
But that T'au symbol still bothers me.
Maybe some changes due copyrights? That symbol was pretty recent and on the long term Eldar, Tau, Orks etc. will be renamed.
Or...well...it looks fragmented. Fragmented T'au...strong symbolism.

fraction64
Shas'Saal
Posts: 165

Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#53 » Apr 26 2017 07:20

I'm not convinced that symbol is tau in origin.

As for deepstrike I imagine it will be much like Age of Sigmar where the unit simply lands where you want it to but has to stay at least 9" (or another number if they decide that is too close for 40k).
It makes deepstrike much more reliable and still limits some powerful abilities. Such as wraithguard with flamers wouldn't be able to shoot anyone the turn they came down because they would be 1" out of range.
I expect a lot will be like AoS since it is a really great rule set that a lot of people are really getting into right now.
Also would think the pulse weapons are going to be ap0. That will probably be the majority of weapons really just like in AoS. -1 is actually pretty rare in the game.

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TauMan
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#54 » Apr 26 2017 08:19

fraction64 wrote:I'm not convinced that symbol is tau in origin.


FYI It's Tash'var, only it's upside down. :nice:
Image


The TauMan
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