The run to 8th edition

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QimRas
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#73 » Apr 27 2017 12:11

Panzer wrote:
QimRas wrote:It's more than just Hit and Run too, it's a purely voluntary disengage. Tarpits are a thing of the past, and an officially dead tactic. I am already rolling dozens of strategies to use with this, both as Tau, AM, and Nids.

Gotta be careful not to give the other player too much advantage on the charge though.

In some ways it's better than Hit&Run and in some ways it's worse.
The good thing about Hit&Run was that you could still run/shoot/charge if you did it right. The bad thing about it was that it was pretty unreliable without a high initiative stat.

I hope Vespid will get some special rule that allows them to still shoot after disengaging. Actually I have really high hopes that Vespid might become good in 8th so I don't have to feel bad about using my conversions. :D


I hadn't even thought Vespids yet. Also, I am totally stealing that conversion idea and doing some of those up myself.

Even if they can't shoot after, you could use Vespids as interrupters. Doing a pre-charge to force the enemy to disengage might be a valid tactic. Hit them with a unit they know will just leave next movement, so they either pull back in their movement, forgoing shooting or assaulting the unit they want to charge, or you pull back in your movement, leaving them well positioned to dump stupid amounts of fire into.

Jacket
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#74 » Apr 27 2017 12:23

QimRas wrote:
Panzer wrote:
QimRas wrote:It's more than just Hit and Run too, it's a purely voluntary disengage. Tarpits are a thing of the past, and an officially dead tactic. I am already rolling dozens of strategies to use with this, both as Tau, AM, and Nids.

Gotta be careful not to give the other player too much advantage on the charge though.

In some ways it's better than Hit&Run and in some ways it's worse.
The good thing about Hit&Run was that you could still run/shoot/charge if you did it right. The bad thing about it was that it was pretty unreliable without a high initiative stat.

I hope Vespid will get some special rule that allows them to still shoot after disengaging. Actually I have really high hopes that Vespid might become good in 8th so I don't have to feel bad about using my conversions. :D


I hadn't even thought Vespids yet. Also, I am totally stealing that conversion idea and doing some of those up myself.

Even if they can't shoot after, you could use Vespids as interrupters. Doing a pre-charge to force the enemy to disengage might be a valid tactic. Hit them with a unit they know will just leave next movement, so they either pull back in their movement, forgoing shooting or assaulting the unit they want to charge, or you pull back in your movement, leaving them well positioned to dump stupid amounts of fire into.

Genius! Lineblockers. I would never have thought of that until playing the game for awhile. Hope Vespid speed is high my sacrificial lambs.

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QimRas
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#75 » Apr 27 2017 12:50

Jacket wrote:Genius! Lineblockers. I would never have thought of that until playing the game for awhile. Hope Vespid speed is high my sacrificial lambs.


:D I imagine they will be fast enough that people will assume they are not a threat like that because they are over there somewhere. Then bam, they jump on over. And they can probably get well out of the way too. Or position themselves in the way of another assaulting unit.

Jacket
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#76 » Apr 27 2017 12:51

QimRas wrote:
Jacket wrote:Genius! Lineblockers. I would never have thought of that until playing the game for awhile. Hope Vespid speed is high my sacrificial lambs.


:D I imagine they will be fast enough that people will assume they are not a threat like that because they are over there somewhere. Then bam, they jump on over. And they can probably get well out of the way too. Or position themselves in the way of another assaulting unit.

Good now it is zoidvespids turn to shine. Also the only problem is people with even faster units learning to do the same thing. So Eldar (who have strong shooting typically) and tyranids are said to have a unit faster than the eldar as well.

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QimRas
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#77 » Apr 27 2017 01:01

Jacket wrote:Good now it is zoidvespids turn to shine. Also the only problem is people with even faster units learning to do the same thing. So Eldar (who have strong shooting typically) and tyranids are said to have a unit faster than the eldar as well.


Hormagaunts most likely. But they want to be in hand to hand, so that is a bit differnt. Maybe Gargoyles, but they also don't mine the melee against people likeep us.

Ted the Tau
Shas'La
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#78 » Apr 27 2017 05:13

All we need now is new kits for Vespids and Kroot... :crafty:

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Vector Strike
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#79 » Apr 27 2017 06:06

Panzer wrote:Actually I have really high hopes that Vespid might become good in 8th so I don't have to feel bad about using my conversions. :D


Oh my sweet summer child...

Spoiler!
Image

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Unicornsilovethem
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#80 » Apr 28 2017 02:25

If we can now freely escape from melee, I can't imagine we'll get to keep Supporting Fire. Harlequins will take a hit since they relied on cycle charging.

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Panzer
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#81 » Apr 28 2017 02:33

I don't see a problem with us keeping Supporting Fire. Shooting is way less devastating in 8th considering a Lascannon has only AP-3 and cover adds to the save.

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Unicornsilovethem
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#82 » Apr 28 2017 04:07

An enemy unit that completed a charge was safe from fire while it could comfortably slaughter the unit. Now we can just pull away, pepper it with shots, and then overwatch again. That's two rounds of shooting for every one round of close combat. Immensely in our favor if our overwatch works like it used to.

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Panzer
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#83 » Apr 28 2017 04:15

Obviously. :roll:
But as said, shooting is way less devastating in 8th and shooting is all we have after all.

BillyBones
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#84 » Apr 28 2017 04:46

I don't know about that, I would say our shooting will stay te same, maybe even a bit better. Of course it will hugely depend on the final stats, but we didn't have much AP anyway, so if tre stats would remain the same, the FW will be exactly the same and missile pods will even get better I would think, they will get at least -1. Only thing that messet that up is the cover, so we will have to see how the ML will work.

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Panzer
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#85 » Apr 28 2017 04:58

BillyBones wrote:I don't know about that, I would say our shooting will stay te same, maybe even a bit better. Of course it will hugely depend on the final stats, but we didn't have much AP anyway, so if tre stats would remain the same, the FW will be exactly the same and missile pods will even get better I would think, they will get at least -1. Only thing that messet that up is the cover, so we will have to see how the ML will work.


That's right, we didn't have much AP.
Hence why Iontides and Plasma Crisis are so popular in a Marine meta and S7 AP4 generally (high strength is always good and AP4 works against everything that's not a Marine).

BillyBones
Shas'La
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#86 » Apr 28 2017 05:10

Panzer wrote:That's right, we didn't have much AP.
Hence why Iontides and Plasma Crisis are so popular in a Marine meta and S7 AP4 generally (high strength is always good and AP4 works against everything that's not a Marine).


I have always based my armies around dishing out heavy S5 and S7 fire and it usually worked better than high AP.

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Panzer
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#87 » Apr 28 2017 05:14

Never really worked for me since my Firewarrior etc. usually got killed way faster than they could kill. Which will probably change in 8th. We'll have to see.
Anyway I'd prefer not to have to munch through a 3+ (potentially 2+ in cover) army with nothing but S5 AP- weapons no matter how many shots I have. Even worse if we had no Supporting Fire anymore.

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Unicornsilovethem
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#88 » Apr 28 2017 06:50

Why are you guys assuming Pulse rifles will be AP0? Since they are described as miniature plasma weapons, seems reasonable that they could get -1.

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Panzer
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#89 » Apr 28 2017 07:10

Unicornsilovethem wrote:Why are you guys assuming Pulse rifles will be AP0? Since they are described as miniature plasma weapons, seems reasonable that they could get -1.

Same reason Bolter that are friggin mini rockets are AP0. For balance sake so basic infantry doesn't invalidate armor.
Of course they could give us the little bonus of having AP-1 on our basic weaponry but I doubt it. So far the scale is just "moved" so AP5 is the new AP0 based on the little information we have. Assuming anything else has even less credibility than that.

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Czar Ziggy
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#90 » Apr 28 2017 08:45

I agree win Panzer that AP- seems likely. Based on what GW has shown us, the modifier system would easily be ported something like this;
AP1 = -4
AP2 = -3
AP3 = -2
AP4 = -1
AP5&6 = -

The fluff about Tau using plasma probably contributes to the fact our basic troop weapon is STR 5 and not the basic 4 most armies get. However, that's not to say they might do something for Tau rules wise.

Czar Ziggy

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