The run to 8th edition

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Panzer
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#621 » May 18 2017 12:18

Yeah the statline is only one small part of the whole datasheet. No need to jump the gun. :D

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Vector Strike
Shas'La
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#622 » May 18 2017 12:30

GW just finished a Q&A about the new edition. This link has an unofficial summary:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/p ... ge#9370854

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Panzer
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#623 » May 18 2017 01:09

Looks complete.
Very pleased with the things they said. Especially the fact that existing Marines can be upgraded into Primaris Marines in the fluff. Makes it actually more possible for GW to phase out old Space Marines over the course of the next years but also way more acceptable imo.

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Peregrim
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#624 » May 18 2017 01:20

> Unqiue Strategems are based on main Keywords in your Detachments.

Possibly means Sept-specific strategems? Interesting.

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Vector Strike
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#625 » May 18 2017 01:29

Consolidation into combat is back... that's surely a problem for us

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Panzer
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#626 » May 18 2017 01:45

Vector Strike wrote:Consolidation into combat is back... that's surely a problem for us

Our units just have to be big enough that they don't get wiped out in a single combat phase. Then we can fall back and shoot them to death. :P

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Same
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#627 » May 18 2017 01:55

> What can be transported is based on Keywords (like Infantry).
Did I saw somewhere that crisis suits could have infrantry keyword :crafty:

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Panzer
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#628 » May 18 2017 01:57

Same wrote:> What can be transported is based on Keywords (like Infantry).
Did I saw somewhere that crisis suits could have infrantry keyword :crafty:

Lmao you're right. Well I guess Devilfishes will have the additional note that it can't transport Battlesuits. :P

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jestermaximus
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#629 » May 18 2017 03:39

I might be misinterpreting how a keyword systems works, but couldn't the suits have something like a bulky keyword that reduces how many could fit in a transport? Or is that too close to how the old USR system worked?

Ricordis
Shas'La
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#630 » May 18 2017 06:05

Then you'd start again to look for the rule. Does bulky mean count as 2 or as 3? Or was it simply impossible?
Keywords is more open if GW wans to change something.

Panzer wrote:
Vector Strike wrote:Consolidation into combat is back... that's surely a problem for us

Our units just have to be big enough that they don't get wiped out in a single combat phase. Then we can fall back and shoot them to death. :P


I'm still hoping shield drones will help us out there. Something that absorbs all these hits.
Well, now the defender does choose which models to take away, doesn't he?

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Panzer
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#631 » May 18 2017 11:06

What Ricordis said.
Sure they could have the bulky keyword but it wouldn't be a special rule that lets them count for 2-3 like in 7th but rather it would be noted on the Devilfish datasheet that he can't carry bulky units etc.
However at that point it would be the same as simply using the battlesuit keyword instead so they are most likely just gonna use that instead.

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Unicornsilovethem
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#632 » May 19 2017 01:58

Vector Strike wrote:GW just finished a Q&A about the new edition. This link has an unofficial summary:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/p ... ge#9370854

Confirms that Drop pods, and their content, must also deploy 9" away. Not looking good for our fusion. Although I guess to be fair, being out of melta range seems to be a much smaller penalty in 8th than in 7th, so maybe there's no cause for concern. Too lazy to do the math but googling says that "2d6 take higher" is 4.47 in expectation, which is just below the expected value of 1+D6. So honestly, melta rule should probably be changed.

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Gragagrogog
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#633 » May 19 2017 03:14

Unicornsilovethem wrote: Too lazy to do the math but googling says that "2d6 take higher" is 4.47 in expectation, which is just below the expected value of 1+D6. So honestly, melta rule should probably be changed.


That's correct. Though the advantage is not much in the average, but in the probability distribution, it really gets the tails of low results down compared to a hypothetical D6+1 which has the same average, at the cost of lower maximum value ofc, which is likely to overkill anyway:
Image

Ricordis
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#634 » May 19 2017 04:32

I favor lower Damage I can count on instead of possible high damage values which also can horribly fail.

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Unicornsilovethem
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#635 » May 19 2017 05:05

Gragagrogog wrote:
Unicornsilovethem wrote: Too lazy to do the math but googling says that "2d6 take higher" is 4.47 in expectation, which is just below the expected value of 1+D6. So honestly, melta rule should probably be changed.


That's correct. Though the advantage is not much in the average, but in the probability distribution, it really gets the tails of low results down compared to a hypothetical D6+1 which has the same average, at the cost of lower maximum value ofc, which is likely to overkill anyway:
Image


But the more individual guns you shoot, the more likely it is that their sum tends to the expectation. And it's going to be pretty unlikely that you're firing just one melta shot, especially when it comes our suits that now carry 3 guns. We should realistically expect to shoot 4, 6 or even more meltas at the same target, which really diminishes the benefit of being within half range.

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Jefffar
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#636 » May 19 2017 05:43

We are also thinking in old paradigms here.

It used to be that getting a fusion blaster within 9 inches, beating the target's AV and then rolling a 5+ on the damage chart was our best way to kill high AV vehicles.

In 8th Ed, high toughness, high wounds models are the targets of the fusion blaster. These targets will not be destroyed by a single lucky hit, but instead will go down to the weight of repeated hits depleting their wound pool. So the roll twice and pick higher result, while a nice boost, isn't essential to the working of the fusion blaster as being able to roll 2D6 for penetration was.

Also, the Fusion Blaster isn't going to be the only way to reliably injure those high end models any more. Heavy Rail Rifles (baring some unexpected special rule or nerf) are going to be just as likely to successfully wound targets as fusion blasters. Against most former vehicles Ion Cannons and Ion Accelerators are probably going to be as deadly as Fusion Blasters (if not more due to the way the blast rule now works). The HYMP and Missile Pod are also likely to be no slouch at putting a lot of wounds on things they couldn't even hurt under the AV system.

So the sky isn't falling. Instead we're seeing something we haven't seen from T'au for years. Anti-vehicle capability distributed across our army, instead of clustered in suicide crisis suits.

Honestly, I think the go to Crisis Suit weapons this edition will be Burst Cannon, Plasma Rifle and Cyclic Ion Blaster.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#637 » May 19 2017 06:02

Missile Pods look very promising as well with their d3 damage.

Ricordis
Shas'La
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Re: The run to 8th edition

Post#638 » May 19 2017 06:03

With split fire on any unit (and I hope our multitrackers will alow us to fire different weapons at different targets) we have faaar less rock-paper-scissor situations.

"Oh, there is a unit of Anti Vehicle suits. I charge them with my UnitA because I don't have to fear them."
"Hahaaa! If have another unit of Anti-UnitA here!"
"Good I brought some Anti-Anti-UnitAs over there."

*snore*...boring.

I'd like to see very mobile suits which fry lefthanded some close enemies with flamers (Anti charge due autohitting).
While shooting their right-wrist-mounted Plasma Rifle at another target.
A shoulder mounted MissilePod or Burst Cannon might give some hits to another unit which would otherwise be wasted. (Reminds me of Iron Patriot)
While the other factions are mostly bound to a specific role for their units we might mix and match and create deadly danger zones for anyone.

It would be funny to see other players sticking to their old behaviour and losing one game after another because the can't adapt to the new rules.

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