Can I still play an All Suits list in 8th?

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Barrett Hiebert
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Can I still play an All Suits list in 8th?

Post#1 » Jun 06 2017 09:47

Hey,

Can I still play an all suits list in 8th edition?

B.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: Can I still play an All Suits list in 8th?

Post#2 » Jun 06 2017 09:51

You certainly can. By using Vanguard Detachments, you can field an army made up of only XV8 squads and Commanders. Since 3xXV8 costs ~275 points, and a Commander costs ~125 points, you could probably field 4x3 XV8s and 3x Commanders. Add in a couple of drones, and you have a 1500-point list.

Given the heavy nerf that XV8s got, both to mobility and points efficiency, this might not be a good idea.

Barrett Hiebert
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Posts: 8

Re: Can I still play an All Suits list in 8th?

Post#3 » Jun 06 2017 10:13

Hey,

Thanks for the reply. I really wanted to continue doing a Farsight list with my fire theme with Stealth Suits, XV8's and XV9's solely. Even though I know it isn't competitive, always thought that would be the coolest army ever.

I have great ideas but not the hobby skills to really customize each model as I would like. Hence why I'm going to take an airbrushing lesson and try out my hand at an XV9 with Fusion Cascade to start. If I can do the larger model, the smaller stealth suits should be doable.

B.

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MKJump
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Re: Can I still play an All Suits list in 8th?

Post#4 » Jun 07 2017 06:31

Taking objectives might be hard, but a full suit list could work if you play it right and build it effectively.

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Panzer
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Re: Can I still play an All Suits list in 8th?

Post#5 » Jun 07 2017 06:42

MKJump wrote:Taking objectives might be hard, but a full suit list could work if you play it right and build it effectively.

Guess he could always spam Drones to capture objectives while his Suits do the real work. :D

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MKJump
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Re: Can I still play an All Suits list in 8th?

Post#6 » Jun 07 2017 07:07

Something along the lines of this might be okay:

Vanguard Detachment:
-Coldstar Commander
-Crisis Squad w/ 6 Drones
-Crisis Squad w/ 6 Drones
-Crisis Squad w/ 6 Drones

Vanguard Detachment:
-Coldstar Commander
-Ghostkeel
-Stealth Suits
-Stealth Suits

Supreme Command Detachment:
-Commander w/ 2 Drones
-Commander w/ 2 Drones
-Commander w/ 2 Drones

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Raikoh067
Shas'La
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Posts: 96

Re: Can I still play an All Suits list in 8th?

Post#7 » Jun 07 2017 09:00

MKJump wrote:Something along the lines of this might be okay:

Vanguard Detachment:
-Coldstar Commander
-Crisis Squad w/ 6 Drones
-Crisis Squad w/ 6 Drones
-Crisis Squad w/ 6 Drones

Vanguard Detachment:
-Coldstar Commander
-Ghostkeel
-Stealth Suits
-Stealth Suits

Supreme Command Detachment:
-Commander w/ 2 Drones
-Commander w/ 2 Drones
-Commander w/ 2 Drones



Keep in mind each addition of drones is an additional kill point for kill point games. They can be targeted seperately by single wound shots, before the suits are shot at with multiwound shots, effectively countering saviour protocols entirely.
If you spam them like that, in some cases your are practically forfeiting victory. Remember, each suit is accompanied by 2 drones. So 3 suits with 6 Drones is a total of 4 kill points for that one "group". Nowhere does it say those units of 2 drones ever combine to form 1 bigger unit.

Your list has a total of 23 kill points up for grabs...

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MKJump
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Re: Can I still play an All Suits list in 8th?

Post#8 » Jun 07 2017 07:06

Fair enough. I wasn't thinking with kill point games in mind. My bad. Tbh, it was a quick brainstorm anyway. Cheers for clearing that up.

Also, I am not sure you are right with saying a crisis squad with 6 drones is 4 kill points. The rules say "When a unit is set up [...] accompany drones are treated as a separate unit." This suggests all 6 drones become a separate unit rather then they split off in twos.

JustGreg
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Posts: 90

Re: Can I still play an All Suits list in 8th?

Post#9 » Jun 07 2017 07:19

MKJump wrote:Fair enough. I wasn't thinking with kill point games in mind. My bad. Tbh, it was a quick brainstorm anyway. Cheers for clearing that up.

Also, I am not sure you are right with saying a crisis squad with 6 drones is 4 kill points. The rules say "When a unit is set up [...] accompany drones are treated as a separate unit." This suggests all 6 drones become a separate unit rather then they split off in twos.


I agree with this interpretation.

It's the unit -not model- that they're deployed with, and then those drones become a separate unit after that, so 3 crisis and 6 drones in 2 units makes sense to me.

That said, now seems like a good a time and place as ever, the rule separating drones off isnt present in the HQ slot suits, is that intentional?

Furthermore, as far as I can see there's nothing that says that a Coldstar's drones can keep up with him? (20" move / 40" advance) is that an oversight?

Edit: reread the drone entry which makes it apply to all units, coldstar on the other hand, I am still unsure.

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thesnailmaster
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Re: Can I still play an All Suits list in 8th?

Post#10 » Jun 07 2017 07:26

JustGreg wrote:
Furthermore, as far as I can see there's nothing that says that a Coldstar's drones can keep up with him? (20" move / 40" advance) is that an oversight?

Edit: reread the drone entry which makes it apply to all units, coldstar on the other hand, I am still unsure.


Why, he just gets normal tactical drones, so they must split up from him in deployment.

JustGreg
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Posts: 90

Re: Can I still play an All Suits list in 8th?

Post#11 » Jun 07 2017 07:28

thesnailmaster wrote:
JustGreg wrote:
Furthermore, as far as I can see there's nothing that says that a Coldstar's drones can keep up with him? (20" move / 40" advance) is that an oversight?

Edit: reread the drone entry which makes it apply to all units, coldstar on the other hand, I am still unsure.


Why, he just gets normal tactical drones, so they must split up from him in deployment.


Well it's just another nuance lost from 7th, where he could pick them up and scoot around with them while flying. Thought that would still be a fun interaction. Loses his protection by flying off.

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thesnailmaster
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Re: Can I still play an All Suits list in 8th?

Post#12 » Jun 07 2017 10:00

That is why you make sure to manta strike a unit of crisis in with drones at his new location :)

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Panzer
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Re: Can I still play an All Suits list in 8th?

Post#13 » Jun 07 2017 10:51

JustGreg wrote:
MKJump wrote:Fair enough. I wasn't thinking with kill point games in mind. My bad. Tbh, it was a quick brainstorm anyway. Cheers for clearing that up.

Also, I am not sure you are right with saying a crisis squad with 6 drones is 4 kill points. The rules say "When a unit is set up [...] accompany drones are treated as a separate unit." This suggests all 6 drones become a separate unit rather then they split off in twos.


I agree with this interpretation.

It's the unit -not model- that they're deployed with, and then those drones become a separate unit after that, so 3 crisis and 6 drones in 2 units makes sense to me.

That said, now seems like a good a time and place as ever, the rule separating drones off isnt present in the HQ slot suits, is that intentional?

Furthermore, as far as I can see there's nothing that says that a Coldstar's drones can keep up with him? (20" move / 40" advance) is that an oversight?

Edit: reread the drone entry which makes it apply to all units, coldstar on the other hand, I am still unsure.

They obviously can't keep up with him. That's the trade off for having such huge mobility and being able to jump anywhere on the table behind another friendly unit or near other Drones.

By the way since Scout is a move before the first turn starts, it reads like when you deploy a Pathfinder unit, you deploy the Drones with them and then can scout ahead leaving the Drones behind lol

JustGreg
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Posts: 90

Re: Can I still play an All Suits list in 8th?

Post#14 » Jun 07 2017 10:59

Panzer wrote:They obviously can't keep up with him. That's the trade off for having such huge mobility and being able to jump anywhere on the table behind another friendly unit or near other Drones.

By the way since Scout is a move before the first turn starts, it reads like when you deploy a Pathfinder unit, you deploy the Drones with them and then can scout ahead leaving the Drones behind lol


Of course that's how it works now, I'm just disappointed they didn't carry over some kind of ability for him to take his drones with him. I know he can just jump to units all over the board, but having to go alone to snag a far-flung objective alone is more risky now. that's all. Still a great unit.

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Panzer
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Re: Can I still play an All Suits list in 8th?

Post#15 » Jun 07 2017 11:01

JustGreg wrote:
Panzer wrote:They obviously can't keep up with him. That's the trade off for having such huge mobility and being able to jump anywhere on the table behind another friendly unit or near other Drones.

By the way since Scout is a move before the first turn starts, it reads like when you deploy a Pathfinder unit, you deploy the Drones with them and then can scout ahead leaving the Drones behind lol


Of course that's how it works now, I'm just disappointed they didn't carry over some kind of ability for him to take his drones with him. I know he can just jump to units all over the board, but having to go alone to snag a far-flung objective alone is more risky now. that's all. Still a great unit.

Well he is also not airbourne like real flyer now (same with the Heldrake) so he can get charged and he isn't horribly overcosted anymore. All in all it's good changes.

JustGreg
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Posts: 90

Re: Can I still play an All Suits list in 8th?

Post#16 » Jun 08 2017 01:24

Panzer wrote: All in all it's good changes.


Totally agree, can't wait to test one out.

knute
Shas'Saal
Posts: 136

Re: Can I still play an All Suits list in 8th?

Post#17 » Jun 08 2017 09:35

JustGreg wrote:
MKJump wrote:Fair enough. I wasn't thinking with kill point games in mind. My bad. Tbh, it was a quick brainstorm anyway. Cheers for clearing that up.

Also, I am not sure you are right with saying a crisis squad with 6 drones is 4 kill points. The rules say "When a unit is set up [...] accompany drones are treated as a separate unit." This suggests all 6 drones become a separate unit rather then they split off in twos.


I agree with this interpretation.

It's the unit -not model- that they're deployed with, and then those drones become a separate unit after that, so 3 crisis and 6 drones in 2 units makes sense to me.

That said, now seems like a good a time and place as ever, the rule separating drones off isnt present in the HQ slot suits, is that intentional?

Furthermore, as far as I can see there's nothing that says that a Coldstar's drones can keep up with him? (20" move / 40" advance) is that an oversight?

Edit: reread the drone entry which makes it apply to all units, coldstar on the other hand, I am still unsure.


That's the exact point I was going to make. I also think we need to keep this in mind when constructing lists because it will save us FOC slots. We have a *lot* of good units vying for the Fast Attack slot - Pathfinders, Vespids, Kroot Hounds, and, of course, Tactical Drones. If we're taking a unit or two of Crisis Suits, it makes sense for them to take a full load of Tactical Drones because it will enable us to take more non-drone units in the FA FOC slot.

JustGreg
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Posts: 90

Re: Can I still play an All Suits list in 8th?

Post#18 » Jun 08 2017 07:31

knute wrote:That's the exact point I was going to make. I also think we need to keep this in mind when constructing lists because it will save us FOC slots. We have a *lot* of good units vying for the Fast Attack slot - Pathfinders, Vespids, Kroot Hounds, and, of course, Tactical Drones. If we're taking a unit or two of Crisis Suits, it makes sense for them to take a full load of Tactical Drones because it will enable us to take more non-drone units in the FA FOC slot.


yep! Not to mention that even without the FOC benefits, 24 carbine shots + drone controller -> 12 S5 hits on the manta drop alpha strike. That should make a dent in any padding units threatening our suits, even before becoming ablative wounds.

Feel like 3 x crisis, 8 weapons, drone controller and 6 gun drones is one (of possibly many) good way to go. works with either the homing beacon + fusion/flamer, plasma spam, or even further back with missile pods for days, though I feel like the latter are better used on the BS2+ commanders scooting around tbh.

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