A brief 8th Ed overview.

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Grogalmighty
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Posts: 46

A brief 8th Ed overview.

Post#1 » Jun 21 2017 12:02

I had a look at the book for our army. In terms of cars, in which normally you either slam your foot on the accelerator, or crush the breaks to slow the *BAD WORD DELETED* down. Someone was travelling 120, turned the wheel and slammed the breaks just long enough to spin out and have no *BAD WORD DELETED* idea what is going on as they hydroplane on a sea of oil.

That is to say, our book effectively got the communist approach, in which everything was set to a standard bar. Nothing is exceptional, nothing is boring.


The units I want to highlight right now are pretty predictable so let's go.

Wargear: Holy *BAD WORD DELETED* our wargear is amazing now. reducing AV, re-rolling 1's, all sorts of crazy *BAD WORD DELETED* stuff is in there, and it's all good for a change. Everyone will take target locks now.

The Riptide.

This thing's changes are...polarized. Some great things some stupid things. Firstly, it is tougher, with 14 wounds. Holy balls. Don't let that excite you because to use the nova reactor requires burning a wound (yay stim injectors, but it's only on a six). The weapons are still nice, but I miss my blast templates. Shielded Missile drones are now essential. It's still a good unit, and still a beast to kill, just not super-indestructible like before.

The Ghostkeel.

This bastard got nerfed the *BAD WORD DELETED* out of. Seriously, this *BAD WORD DELETED!* is basically a generic monstrous creature with infiltrate and -1 to hit. It has decent guns but is no longer the rising star it used to be...It should have been expected though, they were broke as *BAD WORD DELETED* in 7th.

The Broadside.

Holy. BALLS these guys are AMAZING now. The twin heavy rail rifle is a godsend and actually hits hard enough to count now. Missile drones are MUCH better than before and I would be shocked to not see these guys in every tau army. AND THEY HAVE SIX WOUNDS. Take a Target lock (Ap-5) and watch as every vehicle on the table dies. give them two plasma rifles and watch everything ELSE die.

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Atzilla
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Posts: 87

Re: A brief 8th Ed overview.

Post#2 » Jun 21 2017 01:31

I think you might want to read more 8th Edition Indexes/rules.
Now that lascas and meltas deal d6 damage even those seemingly high wound numbers will be diminished.

Your highlight choices are kind of odd.

The Riptide
Really weak, the only thing he is now is tanky.
His damage is lackluster in every configuration.
Posterchild for being hit with the nerfbat.

The Ghostkeel
Average now, due to formation and mechanics removed from the game.

The Broadside
Also about average now.
HYMP is still better than the Railrifle.
Railrifle (with ATS) will take an average 2.67 wounds off a rhino, which has 10!


Real winners so far:
Crisis Commander and Coldstar Commander (outshining Crisis/Broadsides)
Gun Drones (for a normally equipped Riptide you can have 40 Gun Drones, putting out 160 S5 Shots)
Longstrike
Stormsurge
Vespid

Neostrider
Shas'Saal
Posts: 19

Re: A brief 8th Ed overview.

Post#3 » Jun 21 2017 03:51

I agree with atzilla, but I'll add my main focus.

8th ed feels very much still about the alpha strike. Mechanically there's nothing stopping an enemy from focus firing away the highest priorities. I think they even made it a bit easier.

Deep strikes are reliable.
Assault armies now have an alpha strike strategy.
Survivability cannot be measured in rounds. It is measured in number and types of attacks required.

Tau lost their alpha strike edge, and the durability some people claim we gained only prolongs the realization that for every wound or save they gave tau, there's spam special/ heavy weapons that can demolish us.

A land raider is not uncommon. It will have the firepower to kill at least 1 broadside a turn. It's about 2 broadsides. In return, our two broadsides could only do about 1/4 wounds to the land raider, half the total wounds it caused.

So our durability is not as high as thought, and our rails don't compensate with overwhelming firepower. I blame the d6 damage mechanic. Our rails were created because reliably one shot vehicles kills were ap1. Now that it's all wounds and kraak missiles and higher all do the same d6 the only differentiator is the to wound roll (advantage imperium) and saves (advantage imperium).

The mortal wounds ability is nice but too unreliable for my taste. 1/6 an extra wound on average isn't much to make up for how much we overpay for the models they are on.

Jsj will be sorely missed. Hopefully it comes back in the codex or something to replace it. I can't imagine suits as just terminator equivalents with fly. Mechanically not as special as suits used to be. They deserve the walk up and pinch in the face power fist they will probably all end up getting.

But it's not all doom and gloom. There's a lot of opportunity for newer cooler tau tricks once we have a codex and with s5 regular weapons few things are unkillable. The current meta has us strongly the better gunline than ig. Just not what I bought tau for. I expect they will need to fix this soon.

Ash87
Shas'Saal
Posts: 43

Re: A brief 8th Ed overview.

Post#4 » Jun 21 2017 11:08

Neostrider wrote:A land raider is not uncommon. It will have the firepower to kill at least 1 broadside a turn. It's about 2 broadsides. In return, our two broadsides could only do about 1/4 wounds to the land raider, half the total wounds it caused.


Well... Yeah, but you're comparing units here that are entirely different.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying, but the comparison here isn't reasonable. A land raider is a PL 19 unit, with up to 3 Anti-armor weapons, that can cause D6 damage. It has 16 wounds.

The Broadside is PL 9, and has 1 anti-armor weapon that can cause 2d6 damage. One suit has 6 wounds.

I get what you're waving at here, but if we're taking PL to be roughly balanced, 2 Broadsides would be Minimum what you should expect to use against a Land Raider. You're still one PL off, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that you could reduce the effectiveness of that LR down with 2 Broadsides firing their full salvo into it, AND THEN, that same landraider would be screwed because it can't reduce the Broadside effectiveness. Broadside at 1 wound is the broadside at 6 wounds.

And this is before we start allocating wounds onto drones.

1 v 1 the broadside would loose hands down. 2 v 1... I mean, I wouldn't hate the chances of the broadsides.

Neostrider
Shas'Saal
Posts: 19

Re: A brief 8th Ed overview.

Post#5 » Jun 21 2017 04:02

I did my math expecting two broadsides. Their 4 shots only get 2 hits, and only 1 of those wounds. I'm hand waving the additional weapons as roughly equivalent because after all the dice rolling I estimate the multi melta and storm bolter and heavy bolters to be about the same as our secondary weapons.

So 2v1 I still favor the land raider. I estimate it'd take 5 or 6 broadsides to reliably bring a land raider down turn 1. If I wasn't on my phone I'd math the whole thing out. I can promise the numbers will show the killing power of the land raider vs our durability is much higher than vice versa.

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Maxwell
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Posts: 78

Re: A brief 8th Ed overview.

Post#6 » Jun 21 2017 06:51

Neostrider wrote:Just not what I bought tau for.


As a player who just bought into 40k before 8th...this so much. I got Tau so I could play giant robots. Not drone/kroot/fire warrior swarm.

JustGreg
Shas'Saal
Posts: 90

Re: A brief 8th Ed overview.

Post#7 » Jun 21 2017 07:28

Maxwell wrote:
Neostrider wrote:Just not what I bought tau for.


As a player who just bought into 40k before 8th...this so much. I got Tau so I could play giant robots. Not drone/kroot/fire warrior swarm.


It's very not cool that they completely deleted our play style, I'm also pretty sad about that... Our best looking models (imo) have been nerfed into casual game level. Here's hoping for GW throwing us a bone in the codex and bring us back to relevancy.

In the meanwhile however, am I going to stop trying to win with my favourite army? No. It may be an uphill battle that relies heavily on rolling heroic 6's when it matters, (as in, every damage roll), but sure, let's go. We're incredibly unreliable at current but with good maximum potential IMO. Praise be to RNGesus, For the greater good!

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1947

Re: A brief 8th Ed overview.

Post#8 » Jun 21 2017 08:05

JustGreg wrote:In the meanwhile however, am I going to stop trying to win with my favourite army? No. It may be an uphill battle that relies heavily on rolling heroic 6's when it matters, (as in, every damage roll), but sure, let's go. We're incredibly unreliable at current but with good maximum potential IMO. Praise be to RNGesus, For the greater good


Hey, if you buy 11 Commanders and arm them all with 4x Fusion Blasters you'll have a competitive army, which you'll finish painting just in time for the codex to drop and nerf them into the ground!

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AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 827

Re: A brief 8th Ed overview.

Post#9 » Jun 21 2017 09:32

Maxwell wrote:
Neostrider wrote:Just not what I bought tau for.


As a player who just bought into 40k before 8th...this so much. I got Tau so I could play giant robots. Not drone/kroot/fire warrior swarm.


If you're looking to sell models, let me know.

However you will find, if you give it some time, that this statement is absurd. You can still play giant robots if you really want to. You don't have to do drone/kroot/fire warrior swarm.

Honestly, a heavy robot list will probably still do work. Just make sure they have proper markerlight support.
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

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Panzer
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Posts: 3548

Re: A brief 8th Ed overview.

Post#10 » Jun 21 2017 11:19

Maxwell wrote:
Neostrider wrote:Just not what I bought tau for.


As a player who just bought into 40k before 8th...this so much. I got Tau so I could play giant robots. Not drone/kroot/fire warrior swarm.

Well that's your fault then. You should've expected things to change eventually.
If you wanted to be on the save side with playing a giant robot army then you should've gone with Imperial Knights since those literally have nothing else than giant robots.
T'au were never designed as such an army in the first place. I mean you still CAN play with nothing but giant robots. If it's about visuals and/or a specific narrative then it's still possible. It's just not as competetive anymore.

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Maxwell
Shas'Saal
Posts: 78

Re: A brief 8th Ed overview.

Post#11 » Jun 22 2017 05:18

AnonAmbientLight wrote:
Maxwell wrote:
Neostrider wrote:Just not what I bought tau for.


As a player who just bought into 40k before 8th...this so much. I got Tau so I could play giant robots. Not drone/kroot/fire warrior swarm.


If you're looking to sell models, let me know.

However you will find, if you give it some time, that this statement is absurd. You can still play giant robots if you really want to. You don't have to do drone/kroot/fire warrior swarm.

Honestly, a heavy robot list will probably still do work. Just make sure they have proper markerlight support.


Suspicious signature is suspicious....

But I'm already "in" at this point. It will take the most miserable of failures for me to abort that heavily!

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1947

Re: A brief 8th Ed overview.

Post#12 » Jun 22 2017 08:35

Maxwell wrote:Honestly, a heavy robot list will probably still do work. Just make sure they have proper markerlight support.

Suspicious signature is suspicious....

But I'm already "in" at this point. It will take the most miserable of failures for me to abort that heavily!


At least with the Index, don't put your faith in Markerlights. That's what we're starting to piece together I think.

Anyway, don't lose hope until the real Codex drops. If that sucks, I'm out.
Last edited by Arka0415 on Jun 22 2017 07:13, edited 1 time in total.

pantsdown
Shas'Saal
Posts: 1

Re: A brief 8th Ed overview.

Post#13 » Jun 22 2017 09:25

Like some people I recently got into Tau during the tail end of 7th.... it was fun indeed and Riptides are awesome looking and could put out the pain....

Now with 8th, yes things have changed and my 1500 point army that sported two riptides and 6 broadsides, this is no longer a reality.

I recently played a game yesterday for the first time in 8th with ideas from this board and I had a blast running awesome looking commanders, crisis, drones, and pathfinders. Even though the big robots are hard to fit in at the moment, I still find this race/army more entertaining compared to when I played marines which seemed so static.

I have my likes and dislikes but so far in 8th I have hope... heck I watched my crisis and 2 x 6 drones rip 20 wounds off a Stompa.... missile pods did the rest over two turns.

Heads up and keep enjoying the game... change will always happen along with a company wanting to sell products as well... that is just business.

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