8th Ed FORGEWORLD Tau

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Gragagrogog
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Re: 8th Ed FORGEWORLD Tau

Post#145 » Jul 06 2017 10:31

Vector Strike wrote:
gualtikhan wrote:Can anyone talk me about the R'varna? How it is now?


It fires 3D3 S6 AP-2 D3 attacks per arm; can only take ATS and SI as support systems, as 2 shielded missile drones
It's more expensive than a Y'vahra (even being 1 less power point). The old haywire nova now does mortal wounds, the nova for firing twice now lets it re-roll the 3D3 and lost the 2d6 run nova (kept the 3++ option). 8" move, T8, 15W, Ld8.

The rest is as it was. being a battlesuit, can tank wounds on nearby drones and be repaired by technical drones, as enjoy ethereal aura


The R'varna nova to reroll the number of shot D3s is kind of a joke, on average it will up the number of shots by 16%. (The Y'vahra nova'd weapons get's 50% more hits on flamer and +2S, +2 damage, 100% more shots on the ionic discharge cannon.)

Haven't done/seen any math on the overall effectivness, but I suspect it would be very effective against the right targets. The static 3 damage per shot, -3AP(with ATS), 12 shots on average(without nova), if you can find a target with T5 or less, 2-3 wounds...

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Lechai Skull
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Re: 8th Ed FORGEWORLD Tau

Post#146 » Jul 06 2017 08:21

the only reason to nova on the R'varna is to use the elctro nova thing.

And yes, the whole stat-line of its gun looks a little... 'meh'

We already have heaps of units that perform well against light vehicles and elites/bikes. We needed a heavy support variant of the riptide. The R'varna is supposed to fill that role. But fails.

instead of 3d3 S6 shots, it should have been 2d3 S8 shots.

Glad i decided to get the Y'vahra instead of the R'varna

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Shas'Bro
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Re: 8th Ed FORGEWORLD Tau

Post#147 » Jul 06 2017 10:13

Biggest issue I see with the R'varna is that it cannot jetpack out of combat. Enjoying shooting it's 3 damage gun? Not for long you won't. You'll get assaulted T1/2 and then you'll have to fall back and hope you don't get assaulted your opponent's preceding assault phase or else you won't be able to fire again.

Kind of a huge waste for a 300 point unit. At least a stormsurge can walk out of a combat.
*As your Rules Laywer, I advise you against that action

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Unusualsuspect
Kroot'Ui
Posts: 588

Re: 8th Ed FORGEWORLD Tau

Post#148 » Jul 06 2017 10:47

That's also partially why the Y'vahra is such a delightful unit - it CAN jump right out of combat, then do absolutely horrible things to almost anything within its firing radius, and with drone support can survive some CQC to do the same again and again.

I've been considering how I'm going to outfit my XV-84 Battlesuit Commander.

With 3 Weapon/Support Slots, and the Commander's BS of 2+, it simply feels a waste to give the commander anything but 3 weapons (a mix, or all of one kind), and with only 3 slots and no appreciable defensive features, you'd be bringing either less firepower or less durable firepower than a standard Commander XV-8-05. That to me leaves out the short-range "Manta-Strike" enhanced weapons, since that role is simply better performed by other Commanders.

Given the above, I've been basically set on a 3 Missile Pod XV-84 that will sit back in my small gunline to issue Kauyon or Mont'ka in the back line if need is great while providing comparable MP firepower to a HYMP Broadside.

I'll have another couple commanders with CIBs, Fusions, or both for Manta-Strike duty, but a 1st turn practically guaranteed 5 to 6 MP hits is always nice to have flying out of one's backfield, especially if that's also being used to make, say, a paltry BS4+ unit into the much more respectable Rerollable 3+ army (or without other ML support, a still-respectable Rerollable 4+.

For purposes of keeping my Warlord alive, it seem worth making it this XV-84 Triple Missile Commander (who will almost certainly have a nice quantity of Drones to use for ablative wounds against nasty stuff like Plasma and Lascannons, and who will generally be able to stay away from the worst of the melee/close range through judicious use of the MP's 36" range). Not only is this a backfield commander, but its one with plenty of wounds and a 3+ armor save, so you'd need a LOT of snipers or a LOT of unanswered rounds - another useful defensive trait as a Warlord. And yes, the +1 Ld bubble would be worthwhile for a backfield commander to be handing out...

For purposes of getting something out of the Warlord trait, another of my Commanders might make better use of it? Tenacious Survivor can be a nice capstone to other defensive benefits, or putting the Ld bubble on a Coldstar for more mobile, hot-spot Ld boosting.

Anyone else with an XV-84 consider where it could have a place?

Am I shooting myself in the foot with my intended loadout? Can it contribute enough over 5-6 rounds?

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Shas'Bro
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Re: 8th Ed FORGEWORLD Tau

Post#149 » Jul 06 2017 11:29

You're talking about the XV84 from FW...as in the markerlight one? If so, sorry dude, they can only take two weapons max. "May replace burst cannon and may take an additional weapon/wargear."

It has the markerlight, target lock, and two weapons. I guess the best you can get out of it is have it move and advance while it fires since it doesn't suffer a penalty. Other than that, both the FW generic commander suits are bleh. SMS on one kills it since it's heavy and you already have S5 in droves. The markerlight is nice...but do you want to sacrifice 2 extra weapons slots for it? Just grab a Fireblade lol.
*As your Rules Laywer, I advise you against that action

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Unusualsuspect
Kroot'Ui
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Re: 8th Ed FORGEWORLD Tau

Post#150 » Jul 07 2017 01:20

Shas'Bro wrote:You're talking about the XV84 from FW...as in the markerlight one? If so, sorry dude, they can only take two weapons max. "May replace burst cannon and may take an additional weapon/wargear."

It has the markerlight, target lock, and two weapons. I guess the best you can get out of it is have it move and advance while it fires since it doesn't suffer a penalty. Other than that, both the FW generic commander suits are bleh. SMS on one kills it since it's heavy and you already have S5 in droves. The markerlight is nice...but do you want to sacrifice 2 extra weapons slots for it? Just grab a Fireblade lol.


Yep, I misread that.

Means I'm spending less points on weapons, I suppose, for a cheaper home-base commander. Still hitting nearly as much as an unsupported HYMP Broadside...

Fireblades will also likely feature in my lists (at least one, most of the time, and perhaps a few), but I was really hoping the XV-84 Mark'O might be a worthwhile choice. I'm gonna lean on "use for friendly games only" for now, I think.

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Shas'Bro
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Re: 8th Ed FORGEWORLD Tau

Post#151 » Jul 07 2017 01:31

Unusualsuspect wrote:
Shas'Bro wrote:You're talking about the XV84 from FW...as in the markerlight one? If so, sorry dude, they can only take two weapons max. "May replace burst cannon and may take an additional weapon/wargear."

It has the markerlight, target lock, and two weapons. I guess the best you can get out of it is have it move and advance while it fires since it doesn't suffer a penalty. Other than that, both the FW generic commander suits are bleh. SMS on one kills it since it's heavy and you already have S5 in droves. The markerlight is nice...but do you want to sacrifice 2 extra weapons slots for it? Just grab a Fireblade lol.


Yep, I misread that.

Means I'm spending less points on weapons, I suppose, for a cheaper home-base commander. Still hitting nearly as much as an unsupported HYMP Broadside...

Fireblades will also likely feature in my lists (at least one, most of the time, and perhaps a few), but I was really hoping the XV-84 Mark'O might be a worthwhile choice. I'm gonna lean on "use for friendly games only" for now, I think.


Nothing wrong with that man. Honestly it might be good to use the XV84 behind your pathfinders to cascade markerlight hits or kick off Kauyon for some markerlight rerolls. I'm sure the suit can function as a pinch hitter for a counter attack to prevent your precious infantry from getting mulched.

Otherwise, be annoying as possible with him and take two fusion blasters so you can move, advance, and still fire without penalty.
*As your Rules Laywer, I advise you against that action

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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
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Re: 8th Ed FORGEWORLD Tau

Post#152 » Jul 07 2017 08:14

The various forge world XV8(?) variants got terribly outdated, from both model and rules perspectives.

I don't want to be presumptuous, but it feels like the old forge world suits are copies of hand made prototypes as opposed to newer XV8/Commander kits where you can clearly see precise fillet/chamfers and much more details. Looking at ie. Shas'O R'Myr, I'd say there's like 99% chance that it was handmade. If I was about to make a model for one of those FW XV8 variants, I would probably just use the helmet, maybe the foot joint guards and arms from the FW model and throw out the rest.

And they're presenting them as commanders, who got the option to have 4 weapons in 8th, but they only have 2 or 3 effectively. I would like XV81(SMS) and XV84(markerlight) more if they were regular multimodel elite unit(if you could take them mixed with regular XV8) and each could take 2 additional support systems/weapons. (Not to mention that XV84 has target lock but does not need it, and XV81 with SMS doesn't.) R'myr/R'alai seem like a tradeoff which just barely isn't worth it.

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Arka0415
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Re: 8th Ed FORGEWORLD Tau

Post#153 » Jul 07 2017 08:27

Gragagrogog wrote:The various forge world XV8(?) variants got terribly outdated, from both model and rules perspectives.

I don't want to be presumptuous, but it feels like the old forge world suits are copies of hand made prototypes as opposed to newer XV8/Commander kits where you can clearly see precise fillet/chamfers and much more details. Looking at ie. Shas'O R'Myr, I'd say there's like 99% chance that it was handmade. If I was about to make a model for one of those FW XV8 variants, I would probably just use the helmet, maybe the foot joint guards and arms from the FW model and throw out the rest.


I'm no expert on casting but I bet you're right. There's something very different about the old Forgeworld models.

gualtikhan
Shas
Posts: 15

Re: 8th Ed FORGEWORLD Tau

Post#154 » Jul 07 2017 09:34

Thank you all for replying. I will never recollect myself for the evil destiny of my five Riptide, if also the R'varna is so bad as you said I'm going to kill someone at the GW I think...

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Arka0415
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Re: 8th Ed FORGEWORLD Tau

Post#155 » Jul 07 2017 10:11

gualtikhan wrote:Thank you all for replying. I will never recollect myself for the evil destiny of my five Riptide, if also the R'varna is so bad as you said I'm going to kill someone at the GW I think...


Don't be disheartened yet! The codex will have some changes to balancing, so wait until then to be disappointed, okay? :?

Kindrin
Shas'Saal
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Re: 8th Ed FORGEWORLD Tau

Post#156 » Jul 07 2017 11:13

Is anyone using or considering using remoras for late-game objectives? They seem to be the cheapest(without seeker missiles)/fastest combination that can stay hidden for the entire game via Stealth Protocols and deploy anywhere on the table.

Thoughts?

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Vector Strike
Shas'La
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Re: 8th Ed FORGEWORLD Tau

Post#157 » Jul 07 2017 11:23

Kindrin wrote:Is anyone using or considering using remoras for late-game objectives? They seem to be the cheapest(without seeker missiles)/fastest combination that can stay hidden for the entire game via Stealth Protocols and deploy anywhere on the table.

Thoughts?


in matched play, your reserves must come at max end of your 3rd movement phase, or they'll be considered to be destroyed. still, remoras are small enough to hide behind terrain. a small unit might be interesting, but so is coldstar...

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Shas'Bro
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Re: 8th Ed FORGEWORLD Tau

Post#158 » Jul 07 2017 11:53

Vector Strike wrote:
Kindrin wrote:Is anyone using or considering using remoras for late-game objectives? They seem to be the cheapest(without seeker missiles)/fastest combination that can stay hidden for the entire game via Stealth Protocols and deploy anywhere on the table.

Thoughts?


in matched play, your reserves must come at max end of your 3rd movement phase, or they'll be considered to be destroyed. still, remoras are small enough to hide behind terrain. a small unit might be interesting, but so is coldstar...


I agree, I am a firm convert to the Coldstar camp. Thing is, the Coldstar will actually hurt stuff too. If you want mobile shooty dudes you might as well take vespids.
*As your Rules Laywer, I advise you against that action

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Jefffar
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Re: 8th Ed FORGEWORLD Tau

Post#159 » Jul 07 2017 12:37

Perhaps remoras as early game Seeker Alpha Strike, midgame assault blockers and end game objective grabbers?

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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
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Re: 8th Ed FORGEWORLD Tau

Post#160 » Jul 07 2017 01:17

Not sure. Remoras have to move 20" minimum, blocking charges is doable but clunky. Imho the remoras are too expensive for what they do, for 9p more you can have a more durable and shooty piranha with 2 drones and a Fusion Blaster, with +1T (will offset loss of hard to hit sometimes) 6W instead of 3W. Hiding behind terrain and grabbing objectives later is rly the only thing they do better, but don't forget they still have to move 20" a turn.

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Unusualsuspect
Kroot'Ui
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Re: 8th Ed FORGEWORLD Tau

Post#161 » Jul 07 2017 01:28

Gragagrogog wrote:Not sure. Remoras have to move 20" minimum, blocking charges is doable but clunky. Imho the remoras are too expensive for what they do, for 9p more you can have a more durable and shooty piranha with 2 drones and a Fusion Blaster, with +1T (will offset loss of hard to hit sometimes) 6W instead of 3W. Hiding behind terrain and grabbing objectives later is rly the only thing they do better, but don't forget they still have to move 20" a turn.


Most importantly for a late-game objective grabber, a Piranha can fairly easily become 3 models on the objective compared to the Remora's 1, and control of objectives is a pure numbers game now in 8th...

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shasocastris
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Re: 8th Ed FORGEWORLD Tau

Post#162 » Jul 07 2017 01:33

The biggest benefit of Remoras, which I've been exploring, is that they are BS 4+ native and can benefit from a drone controller. Them combined with a Coldstar is a lot of 3+ or better shooting, and with 5 markerlights, BS 2+ re-rolling ones. This combo makes taking seekers worth it, as it's basically 8 definite wounds on something.

Cheers!

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