8th Edition Rules, Mechanics and Concepts you don't like

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Barteh
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Re: 8th Edition Rules, Mechanics and Concepts you don't like

Post#55 » Jul 04 2017 06:38

Arka0415 wrote:
Panzer wrote:Only if you decide to exploit a rule that's aimed at beginner who don't have a whole army yet though.


Is there in fact a rule that says this?


Quite frankly, yes. The rule talks about situations where you don't have enough models available to field a complete unit. If you want to kid yourself and sell models to then be able to claim you don't have enough to field a full unit, then go ahead, but it is clearly not intended to optimize your lists.

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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: 8th Edition Rules, Mechanics and Concepts you don't like

Post#56 » Jul 04 2017 06:40

Yea sure, I do have 30 crisis in my armycase, but half of those belong to my brother. He forbid me to use them!

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Panzer
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Re: 8th Edition Rules, Mechanics and Concepts you don't like

Post#57 » Jul 04 2017 06:42

That's why I said it's exploiting the rules. Nobody except your regular opponent knows how many models exactly you have. ^^

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
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Re: 8th Edition Rules, Mechanics and Concepts you don't like

Post#58 » Jul 04 2017 06:43

Panzer wrote:"Sometimes you may find that you do not have enough models to field a minimum-sized unit; if this is the case, you can still include on unit of that type in your army with as many models as you have available."


Gotcha. RAW of course perfectly legal (no one can prove you own more models than you have on you) but I bet no serious tournament would ever allow this. I guess it's fair though.

In the current meta I can't really see a viable role for Monats anyway that a Commander can't fill. For 105 points you can get a 3x Fusion Blaster suit, but... FBs hitting on 4+ seems to risky to me.

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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
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Re: 8th Edition Rules, Mechanics and Concepts you don't like

Post#59 » Jul 04 2017 07:06

Ye. I would have no problem with GW saying you can use this if you want to. But writing it in this way is like leaving your wallet on a sidewalk end being surprised it's gone after a week.

I also don't like having to houserule such stupidity out of the game, I mean, who is this rule written for? Afaik, there are no kits GW/FW sells that would leave you with understrength unit if you buy only one box.

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Panzer
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Re: 8th Edition Rules, Mechanics and Concepts you don't like

Post#60 » Jul 04 2017 07:08

Gragagrogog wrote:I also don't like having to houserule such stupidity out of the game, I mean, who is this rule written for? Afaik, there are no kits GW/FW sells that would leave you with understrength unit if you buy only one box.

For people who haven't build all of the models in that box yet for various reasons.

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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
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Re: 8th Edition Rules, Mechanics and Concepts you don't like

Post#61 » Jul 04 2017 07:10

Panzer wrote:For people who haven't build all of the models in that box yet for various reasons.


I would allow you to proxy the rest of the unit with a proper sized base.

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StealthKnightSteg
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Re: 8th Edition Rules, Mechanics and Concepts you don't like

Post#62 » Jul 04 2017 07:13

Gragagrogog wrote:Ye. I would have no problem with GW saying you can use this if you want to. But writing it in this way is like leaving your wallet on a sidewalk end being surprised it's gone after a week.

I also don't like having to houserule such stupidity out of the game, I mean, who is this rule written for? Afaik, there are no kits GW/FW sells that would leave you with understrength unit if you buy only one box.


just wait till 40k gets the AoS equivalent of the Easy to build boxes :roll:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NL/Ea ... d-Warriors

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QimRas
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Posts: 273

Re: 8th Edition Rules, Mechanics and Concepts you don't like

Post#63 » Jul 04 2017 07:17

StealthKnightSteg wrote:
Gragagrogog wrote:Ye. I would have no problem with GW saying you can use this if you want to. But writing it in this way is like leaving your wallet on a sidewalk end being surprised it's gone after a week.

I also don't like having to houserule such stupidity out of the game, I mean, who is this rule written for? Afaik, there are no kits GW/FW sells that would leave you with understrength unit if you buy only one box.


just wait till 40k gets the AoS equivalent of the Easy to build boxes :roll:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NL/Ea ... d-Warriors


My dad actually just got the Build and Paint set which includes... 3 Space Marines.

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Panzer
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Re: 8th Edition Rules, Mechanics and Concepts you don't like

Post#64 » Jul 04 2017 07:23

StealthKnightSteg wrote:
Gragagrogog wrote:Ye. I would have no problem with GW saying you can use this if you want to. But writing it in this way is like leaving your wallet on a sidewalk end being surprised it's gone after a week.

I also don't like having to houserule such stupidity out of the game, I mean, who is this rule written for? Afaik, there are no kits GW/FW sells that would leave you with understrength unit if you buy only one box.


just wait till 40k gets the AoS equivalent of the Easy to build boxes :roll:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NL/Ea ... d-Warriors

It's already coming for Primaris Marines.

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Panzer
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Re: 8th Edition Rules, Mechanics and Concepts you don't like

Post#65 » Jul 04 2017 07:24

Gragagrogog wrote:
Panzer wrote:For people who haven't build all of the models in that box yet for various reasons.


I would allow you to proxy the rest of the unit with a proper sized base.

Any sane person would but I guess something like this doesn't look pretty on the table and GW has the weird illusion of people only using fully assembled and painted models to play. :D

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Sykes
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Re: 8th Edition Rules, Mechanics and Concepts you don't like

Post#66 » Jul 04 2017 02:41

Kakapo42 wrote:You could use multiple seeker missiles on a single target, but that ends up providing disproportionately low returns. In previous editions I only need one seeker missile to knock out an enemy vehicle or medium-sized T4 unit (in theory at least), which means I can potentially get one meaningful kill per seeker missile. In other words, if I bring 8 seeker missiles on my 4 Devilfish (not an insignificant investment), I can conceivably knock out 8 significant targets. In 8th edition, I need to bring over twice as many seeker missiles to conceivably knock out only two significant targets. It just isn't very economical. The Skyray in particular gets hit especially hard by this - it's supposed to be the premier Tau anti-aircraft unit, but with the current seeker missile rules it can only realistically shoot down one air unit per game, if it's lucky.


Yes, I think the reality is that we can't view seekers as tank-busting missiles any more, they're just for finishing off units or getting a few guaranteed wounds in, which reflects their low cost. But I'd definitely rather have seekers than psychic mortal wounds that have to target the nearest unit. And the Skyray has been neglected for several editions now, at least with other mobile missile platforms (manticore etc) their rockets can dish out multiple wounds.

Kakapo42 wrote: Oddly enough your sentiments here are eerily reminiscent of my own in Warhammer Fantasy when the 8th edition Wood Elf army book was released (Wood Elves being my main army in Warhammer Fantasy). Your comments about JSJ and your preferred playstyle even mirror my own feelings about the Asrai Archery Wood Elf special rule (which was a major factor in why I never adopted the 8th edition Wood Elf army book).


That's one of the reasons I'm not enjoying 8th as much as 7th, while the game undeniably needed to be stream-lined, GW has kinda swung too far the other way. My overall feeling is that the armies which relied on strong stats and one or two rules (Marines, Necrons, Orks, Tyranids) are largely the same, but factions that relied heavily on a big list of rules (Tau, Eldar) have lost a LOT of their flavour and fun. Unfortunately the former group probably makes up the core support base for GW, so this is unlikely to change.

Panzer wrote: Heh, ask me and my Tomb Kings. Sure they got some fancy new units in 8th, but it wasn't really what it used to be anymore. Well I didn't like 8th fantasy anyway, neither did my local community so most stopped playing and then they dropped AoS and stopped supporting Tomb Kings...so now I'm here.


This is a prime example of why I don't think GW cares as much about some of their customers as they pretend to. Dropping an entire faction the way they did was unacceptable and must have been gut-wrenching (to put it mildly).

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Vio'ra Mal'caor
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 228

Re: 8th Edition Rules, Mechanics and Concepts you don't like

Post#67 » Jul 04 2017 08:46

Actually, they're a lot better than they were during the last 10 odd years. For one, they're actually listening to us. Then, there's the whole 'drop a lot of crap codex writing' with the removal of individual codexes (something I hate) as well as slightly better (if not still vaugely terrible) customer service. On the other hand, they have crapped all over common sense when writing the rules (such as making several redundancies (and also making some core Tau things make little sense when compared to their own fluff (i.e. Shield Drones now being body shields rather than defensive shield projectors))), simplifying the rules to the point where a lot of great tactics are now useless, bring back robutte suckalot
Spoiler!
Gulliman or whatever the hell it is
and also introducing a completely fluff-denying addition to space marines: 'Heretical' Hover Tanks (not actually heretical, it just doesn't make sense considering the Imperium's aversion to using new technology). But still, they're doing a lot better than before.
For the Tau'va ATT!!!

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1946

Re: 8th Edition Rules, Mechanics and Concepts you don't like

Post#68 » Jul 04 2017 10:20

Vio'ra Mal'caor wrote:Then, there's the whole 'drop a lot of crap codex writing' with the removal of individual codexes (something I hate)


This isn't a permanent change though, of course.

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Vio'ra Mal'caor
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 228

Re: 8th Edition Rules, Mechanics and Concepts you don't like

Post#69 » Jul 05 2017 01:16

i know, which is the only thing stopping me from throwing up my arms and quitting for another long stretch. That, and the fact that I really want to play again.
For the Tau'va ATT!!!

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