New 8th FAQ

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Overheal
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Re: New 8th FAQ

Post#127 » Jul 12 2017 09:13

Another odd one: how many extra total shots does the fireblade give to FWs? I'm kinda reading it as 4 shots total at close range for a pulse rifle. ie. Rapid Fire 1 becomes Rapid Fire 2, Assault 2 becomes Assault 3, etc.

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Arka0415
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Re: New 8th FAQ

Post#128 » Jul 12 2017 10:28

Overheal wrote:Another odd one: how many extra total shots does the fireblade give to FWs? I'm kinda reading it as 4 shots total at close range for a pulse rifle. ie. Rapid Fire 1 becomes Rapid Fire 2, Assault 2 becomes Assault 3, etc.


It says they simply fire one shot at half range. How would that give them any more than one shot at half range? For Pulse Rifles, that's 1 shot at 30" an 3 shots at 15".

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Panzer
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Re: New 8th FAQ

Post#129 » Jul 12 2017 11:05

Yeah it gives an additional shot. It doesn't double the shots. Same as it was in 7th.

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Arka0415
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Re: New 8th FAQ

Post#130 » Jul 13 2017 03:02

Panzer wrote:Yeah it gives an additional shot. It doesn't double the shots. Same as it was in 7th.


There are abilities in the game, like FRFSRF in the Imperial Guard, that do make Rapid Fire 1 units become Rapid Fire 2 and so on. Powerful stuff. I think our version is balanced though.

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Panzer
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Re: New 8th FAQ

Post#131 » Jul 13 2017 03:19

Arka0415 wrote:
Panzer wrote:Yeah it gives an additional shot. It doesn't double the shots. Same as it was in 7th.


There are abilities in the game, like FRFSRF in the Imperial Guard, that do make Rapid Fire 1 units become Rapid Fire 2 and so on. Powerful stuff. I think our version is balanced though.

So? There are many different rules in the game, but that has nothing to do with this rule since the wording is clear.

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Arka0415
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Re: New 8th FAQ

Post#132 » Jul 13 2017 03:28

Panzer wrote:So? There are many different rules in the game, but that has nothing to do with this rule since the wording is clear.


I wasn't arguing, just pointing that out. Maybe Overheal was confused because there are many abilities with similar, but different, effects.

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Unusualsuspect
Kroot'Ui
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Re: New 8th FAQ

Post#133 » Jul 13 2017 10:32

Panzer wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:
Panzer wrote:Yeah it gives an additional shot. It doesn't double the shots. Same as it was in 7th.


There are abilities in the game, like FRFSRF in the Imperial Guard, that do make Rapid Fire 1 units become Rapid Fire 2 and so on. Powerful stuff. I think our version is balanced though.

So? There are many different rules in the game, but that has nothing to do with this rule since the wording is clear.


When you shoot a weapon, how many attacks do you get?
Each time you shoot, you get the number of attacks on the profile.

When you shoot, can you split attacks between targets?
No, the rules explicitly state that you can not split a single weapon's attacks between targets.

When you shoot, can you split shots between targets?
Yes, the rules explicitly provide that (unlike attacks) shots can be split between targets.

When a Fire Blade grants an extra shot, can that extra shot be fired at a separate target?
...Well, if its merely an extra attack (as you're claiming), then you can't choose to fire that extra attack at a different target than the other attacks from that weapon. However, as a "shot", you can split the original shooting and the extra shot.


The problem here, and mostly a RAW one (since I'm firmly on the side that RAI is 1 extra attack, not 1 extra shot/shooting of a weapon), is that the word "shot" is not explicitly defined in the rulebook, but it is used in rules contexts where it sometimes strongly suggests that "shot" is intended as a "shooting of a weapon profile" (when the rules allow splitting targets for each separate "shot") and sometimes is used in what appears to be the place of "attacks" as if they were the same term (There's an example text of Deathguard firing bolter "shots" in a way that could only be attacks).

So while I do agree that RAI is clear, saying the RULES are clear is, as always when discussing the rules created by GW, a very dangerous and dubious prospect. :P

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Overheal
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Re: New 8th FAQ

Post#134 » Jul 13 2017 10:59

Glad im not the only one thinking like this.

Do they use "Shots" and "Attacks" in a consistent way in the FAQ?

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Glarblar
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Re: New 8th FAQ

Post#135 » Jul 13 2017 11:02

According to my reading of the Core Rules:
Weapons make "Attacks"
Models make "Shots"

This would be contradictory to how "Volley Fire" is phrased however

RAW:
Volley Fire: Models in <sept> units within 6" of any friendly <Sept> Fireblade may fire an extra shot with pulse pistols, pulse carbines and pulse rifles when shooting at targets within half the weapon's range

More consistent with core rules:
Volley Fire: Models with pulse pistols, pulse carbines and pulse rifles in <sept> units within 6" of any friendly <Sept> Fireblade, may fire an extra shot when shooting at targets within half the weapon's range

fraction64
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Re: New 8th FAQ

Post#136 » Jul 13 2017 11:25

I'm confused where there is a rules issue on this one. Shot vs attack makes no difference.
You cannot have a single weapon target multiple units not shots or attacks. So the firewarrior unit gets 1 extra shot with their guns at half range (3 shots then) no matter how you describe that they can only fire their gun at one unit.

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Overheal
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Re: New 8th FAQ

Post#137 » Jul 13 2017 11:31

Elphiel wrote:RAI would be completely otherwise.
If the intend was, that Longstrike keeps his 2+ BS even if he moved, he would get a special rule especially for that, like Markerdrone for example.
The rule says "...other friendly ...". Other is the important part here. The Rule is Longstrikes equivalent of an aura buff because he is an HQ character linke Ethereals, Firebaldes and so on. The Idea is clearly that Longstrike is leading his fellow Hammerhead Gunships and providing them with superior Target data -> their chance to hit is increased.

Just to help allay this debate:

FAQ for Index Xenos 2 explicitly strikes the word "Other" from Longstrike's ability. So it does affect him as well.

Page 72 – Longstrike, Fire Caste Exemplar
Delete the word ‘other’ from this ability.


Keywords for Longstrike's Gunship includes TX7 HAMMERHEAD GUNSHIP. Hammerheads also have this same keyword.

Despite the lack of Capitalization/Keyword cueing in the rule, I think it should be pretty easy to conclude that his gunship is a TX7, and the Aura affects all TX7s within 6", including his own, per the sidenote about Aura abilities in the Core Rules. This same formatting is used in the wording for the Firesight Marksman's Drone Uplink, after all.

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Yojimbob
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Re: New 8th FAQ

Post#138 » Jul 13 2017 11:46

Overheal wrote:Another odd one: how many extra total shots does the fireblade give to FWs? I'm kinda reading it as 4 shots total at close range for a pulse rifle. ie. Rapid Fire 1 becomes Rapid Fire 2, Assault 2 becomes Assault 3, etc.


Wow, rereading it all I am definitely inclined to believe this is how this works. Based on the wording of the core book, yes we get an extra shot so that they weapons profiles become Rapid fire 2 and Assault 3. This makes him insanely good within 15" giving each Strike team FW 4 attacks. I can't believe I missed this before.

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Overheal
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Re: New 8th FAQ

Post#139 » Jul 13 2017 11:51

I figure it makes plenty of sense given how much extra dice are being thrown around in the meta.

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Glarblar
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Re: New 8th FAQ

Post#140 » Jul 13 2017 11:54

Yojimbob wrote:
Overheal wrote:Another odd one: how many extra total shots does the fireblade give to FWs? I'm kinda reading it as 4 shots total at close range for a pulse rifle. ie. Rapid Fire 1 becomes Rapid Fire 2, Assault 2 becomes Assault 3, etc.


Wow, rereading it all I am definitely inclined to believe this is how this works. Based on the wording of the core book, yes we get an extra shot so that they weapons profiles become Rapid fire 2 and Assault 3. This makes him insanely good within 15" giving each Strike team FW 4 attacks. I can't believe I missed this before.


Its a debate going 3 ways:
Does the model get an extra 5/0/1 shot
Does each gun (gundrones have 2) get an extra 5/0/1 shot
Does the weapon profile change to include an extra shot (PR changes to 15"-30" RF1 / 0"-15" RF2)

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Yojimbob
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Re: New 8th FAQ

Post#141 » Jul 13 2017 12:05

Glarblar wrote:
Yojimbob wrote:
Overheal wrote:Another odd one: how many extra total shots does the fireblade give to FWs? I'm kinda reading it as 4 shots total at close range for a pulse rifle. ie. Rapid Fire 1 becomes Rapid Fire 2, Assault 2 becomes Assault 3, etc.


Wow, rereading it all I am definitely inclined to believe this is how this works. Based on the wording of the core book, yes we get an extra shot so that they weapons profiles become Rapid fire 2 and Assault 3. This makes him insanely good within 15" giving each Strike team FW 4 attacks. I can't believe I missed this before.


Its a debate going 3 ways:
Does the model get an extra 5/0/1 shot
Does each gun (gundrones have 2) get an extra 5/0/1 shot
Does the weapon profile change to include an extra shot (PR changes to 15"-30" RF1 / 0"-15" RF2)


It definitely modifies each weapon profile to be RF1 to RF2 and Assault 2 to 3 so gun drones get 6 attacks when within 9 inches.

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Glarblar
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Posts: 265

Re: New 8th FAQ

Post#142 » Jul 13 2017 12:06

Yojimbob wrote:
It definitely modifies each weapon profile to be RF1 to RF2 and Assault 2 to 3 so gun drones get 6 attacks when within 9 inches.


Curious, what is your rational for saying 'definitely', I'd like to know how to explain it to my opponent

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Panzer
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Re: New 8th FAQ

Post#143 » Jul 13 2017 12:16

Glarblar wrote:
Yojimbob wrote:
It definitely modifies each weapon profile to be RF1 to RF2 and Assault 2 to 3 so gun drones get 6 attacks when within 9 inches.


Curious, what is your rational for saying 'definitely', I'd like to know how to explain it to my opponent

Because of the wording. It says each model can fire an extra shot with pulse pistols/carbines/rifles. If a model has two weapons it gets two extra shots.
We talked about that weeks ago already. ^^

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Glarblar
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Re: New 8th FAQ

Post#144 » Jul 13 2017 12:23

Panzer wrote:
Glarblar wrote:
Yojimbob wrote:
It definitely modifies each weapon profile to be RF1 to RF2 and Assault 2 to 3 so gun drones get 6 attacks when within 9 inches.


Curious, what is your rational for saying 'definitely', I'd like to know how to explain it to my opponent

Because of the wording. It says each model can fire an extra shot with pulse pistols/carbines/rifles. If a model has two weapons it gets two extra shots.
We talked about that weeks ago already. ^^


I'm refering to the Rapid Fire portion of this. I understand the multiple pulse weapons scenario

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