RIP shield drones

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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 385

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#37 » Jul 04 2017 04:44

I don't think you guys get the gravity of not rolling any armour saves for a wound when transfering it. For the enemy, it's actualy better to shoot crisis directly (a model with better toughness and save) and not bother shooting drones first with basic weaponry.

Quick example, 1 crisis with 2 drones. You'll have to put 2 damage on the crisis either way, but after that, it's faster to shoot crisis, plus you don't have to worry about splitting fire with a unit and wasting shots overkilling the drones unit.

With S4, AP0 weapons, it will take on average:
9 hits to inflict 1 damage on T5, 3+ save crisis
4 hits to inflict 1 damage on T4, 4+ save drone
3 hits to inflict 1 damage to a drone when it's transfered from crisis to drone

Therefore, having a crisis with 1 wound left and 2 drones, it's
3+3+9 = 15 hits to kill them when shooting the crisis directly, targeting only 1 unit
4+4+9 = 17 hits to kill them if singling the drones first, with possibly more wasted shots when overkilling the drones unit

EDIT: Ofc, before the nerf, the first number would be 21 hits which makes it better to shoot drones first unless you do a giant overkill. The nerf also removes some tactical options like putting the drones out of LoS or giving them better cover.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1929

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#38 » Jul 04 2017 05:29

Gragagrogog wrote:I don't think you guys get the gravity of not rolling any armour saves for a wound when transfering it. For the enemy, it's actualy better to shoot crisis directly (a model with better toughness and save) and not bother shooting drones first with basic weaponry.

Quick example, 1 crisis with 2 drones. You'll have to put 2 damage on the crisis either way, but after that, it's faster to shoot crisis, plus you don't have to worry about splitting fire with a unit and wasting shots overkilling the drones unit.

With S4, AP0 weapons, it will take on average:
9 hits to inflict 1 damage on T5, 3+ save crisis
4 hits to inflict 1 damage on T4, 4+ save drone
3 hits to inflict 1 damage to a drone when it's transfered from crisis to drone

Therefore, having a crisis with 1 wound left and 2 drones, it's
3+3+9 = 15 hits to kill them when shooting the crisis directly, targeting only 1 unit
4+4+9 = 17 hits to kill them if singling the drones first, with possibly more wasted shots when overkilling the drones unit


This. Ordinary firepower can be converted to mortal wounds by firing at the XV8s and not the drones, multiplying its effectiveness. In addition, as Gragagrogog said, there's no need to worry about overkilling. A Lasgun firing at an XV8 will take 6 shots to kill a Drone. That same Lasgun, firing at a Drone, would take 12 shots to kill that Drone. Doubly effective.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#39 » Jul 04 2017 05:34

Arka0415 wrote:
Gragagrogog wrote:I don't think you guys get the gravity of not rolling any armour saves for a wound when transfering it. For the enemy, it's actualy better to shoot crisis directly (a model with better toughness and save) and not bother shooting drones first with basic weaponry.

Quick example, 1 crisis with 2 drones. You'll have to put 2 damage on the crisis either way, but after that, it's faster to shoot crisis, plus you don't have to worry about splitting fire with a unit and wasting shots overkilling the drones unit.

With S4, AP0 weapons, it will take on average:
9 hits to inflict 1 damage on T5, 3+ save crisis
4 hits to inflict 1 damage on T4, 4+ save drone
3 hits to inflict 1 damage to a drone when it's transfered from crisis to drone

Therefore, having a crisis with 1 wound left and 2 drones, it's
3+3+9 = 15 hits to kill them when shooting the crisis directly, targeting only 1 unit
4+4+9 = 17 hits to kill them if singling the drones first, with possibly more wasted shots when overkilling the drones unit


This. Ordinary firepower can be converted to mortal wounds by firing at the XV8s and not the drones, multiplying its effectiveness. In addition, as Gragagrogog said, there's no need to worry about overkilling. A Lasgun firing at an XV8 will take 6 shots to kill a Drone. That same Lasgun, firing at a Drone, would take 12 shots to kill that Drone. Doubly effective.

Not quite doubled since Crisis have T5, but yeah it's more effective.

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Lechai Skull
Shas'Saal
Posts: 365

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#40 » Jul 04 2017 05:52

well it looks like GW has screwed us either way...

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1929

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#41 » Jul 04 2017 05:53

Panzer wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:
Gragagrogog wrote:I don't think you guys get the gravity of not rolling any armour saves for a wound when transfering it. For the enemy, it's actualy better to shoot crisis directly (a model with better toughness and save) and not bother shooting drones first with basic weaponry.

Quick example, 1 crisis with 2 drones. You'll have to put 2 damage on the crisis either way, but after that, it's faster to shoot crisis, plus you don't have to worry about splitting fire with a unit and wasting shots overkilling the drones unit.

With S4, AP0 weapons, it will take on average:
9 hits to inflict 1 damage on T5, 3+ save crisis
4 hits to inflict 1 damage on T4, 4+ save drone
3 hits to inflict 1 damage to a drone when it's transfered from crisis to drone

Therefore, having a crisis with 1 wound left and 2 drones, it's
3+3+9 = 15 hits to kill them when shooting the crisis directly, targeting only 1 unit
4+4+9 = 17 hits to kill them if singling the drones first, with possibly more wasted shots when overkilling the drones unit


This. Ordinary firepower can be converted to mortal wounds by firing at the XV8s and not the drones, multiplying its effectiveness. In addition, as Gragagrogog said, there's no need to worry about overkilling. A Lasgun firing at an XV8 will take 6 shots to kill a Drone. That same Lasgun, firing at a Drone, would take 12 shots to kill that Drone. Doubly effective.

Not quite doubled since Crisis have T5, but yeah it's more effective.


No, it's doubled. Check out the math here.

Lasgun (S3) vs. XV8 (T5): (1/2)*(1/3) = 1/6 chance to deal 1 wound to a Drone

Lasgun (S3) vs. Drone (T4): (1/2)*(1/3)*(1/2) = 1/12 chance to deal 1 wound to a Drone

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#42 » Jul 04 2017 06:10

Arka0415 wrote:
Panzer wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:
This. Ordinary firepower can be converted to mortal wounds by firing at the XV8s and not the drones, multiplying its effectiveness. In addition, as Gragagrogog said, there's no need to worry about overkilling. A Lasgun firing at an XV8 will take 6 shots to kill a Drone. That same Lasgun, firing at a Drone, would take 12 shots to kill that Drone. Doubly effective.

Not quite doubled since Crisis have T5, but yeah it's more effective.


No, it's doubled. Check out the math here.

Lasgun (S3) vs. XV8 (T5): (1/2)*(1/3) = 1/6 chance to deal 1 wound to a Drone

Lasgun (S3) vs. Drone (T4): (1/2)*(1/3)*(1/2) = 1/12 chance to deal 1 wound to a Drone

Ah right, it was a Lasgun. Was actually thinking about a Lascannon for some reason. ^^

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1929

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#43 » Jul 04 2017 06:29

Panzer wrote:Ah right, it was a Lasgun. Was actually thinking about a Lascannon for some reason. ^^


It's funny, the same thing happened in a discussion over on r/Tau40k. Remember the humble Lasgun! :P

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#44 » Jul 04 2017 06:40

Arka0415 wrote:
Panzer wrote:Ah right, it was a Lasgun. Was actually thinking about a Lascannon for some reason. ^^


It's funny, the same thing happened in a discussion over on r/Tau40k. Remember the humble Lasgun! :P

Probably because our big Rail weapon is called RailGUN as well....a bit confusing. :D

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1929

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#45 » Jul 04 2017 06:46

Panzer wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:
Panzer wrote:Ah right, it was a Lasgun. Was actually thinking about a Lascannon for some reason. ^^


It's funny, the same thing happened in a discussion over on r/Tau40k. Remember the humble Lasgun! :P

Probably because our big Rail weapon is called RailGUN as well....a bit confusing. :D


This is a little off-topic, but there should be a gun called the Rail Cannon and it should be the Stormsurge's gun. We have Railguns and Heavy Rail Cannons, so why is the in-between gun a super upgunned Pulse Rifle??

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azlanpower
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Posts: 87
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Re: RIP shield drones

Post#46 » Jul 23 2017 08:12

Shield drones are back!! With the latest FAQ:

If Shield drones targeted: 4+ invul then 5+ FNP
if savior protocol: straightaway 5+ FNP

thnks GW.

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shasocastris
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 987
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Re: RIP shield drones

Post#47 » Jul 23 2017 08:35

Since it's no longer relevant, I'm going to lock this topic. I suppose I'll unlock if Shield Drones get FAQed to be useless again...

Cheers!

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