RIP shield drones

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Koiju
Shas
Posts: 4

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#19 » Jul 03 2017 06:04

Panzer wrote:
Koiju wrote:Uh, you guys seem to have made a mistake, the wounds transfered to drones DOES NOT become mortal wounds, im looking at the book right now, it says:
'Saviour Protocols: If a DRONES unit is within 3" of a friendly T'AU EMPIRE INFANTRY or BATTLESUIT unit, you may choose to allocate any wounds to the drones instead of the target unit'

In other words, it works exactly as if the drones were temorarily part of the target unit for the purposes of wound allocation, the drones would still get their saves.

I've used shield drones a lot in my games so far and I find them very nice for soaking wounds off of other targets.
If anything I think I preffer them to gun drones.

It's not in the book. It's in the FAQ/Errata. ;)
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/02/warhammer-40000-faq-now-available-july2gw-homepage-post-1/

Pages 53, 56, 57, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73
and 74 – Saviour Protocols
Change this rule to read:
‘Saviour Protocols: If a <Sept> Drones unit is within 3"
of a friendly <Sept> Infantry or <Sept> Battlesuit
unit when an enemy attack successfully wounds it, you
can allocate that wound to the Drones unit instead of
the target. If you do, that Drones unit suffers a mortal
wound instead of the normal damage.’


Ah, well, than I shall neglect to mention that to my friends :P

But seriously, did they not also errata anything about mortal wounds? maybe invuln saves now work with them? hmm, seems like a hasty fix, I'll probably ask to keep running it as pre-errata with my group for now till they have time to put more thought into it (I assume they are very busy trying to re-balance all the armies at once right now).

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 2365

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#20 » Jul 03 2017 06:07

Koiju wrote:
Panzer wrote:
Koiju wrote:Uh, you guys seem to have made a mistake, the wounds transfered to drones DOES NOT become mortal wounds, im looking at the book right now, it says:
'Saviour Protocols: If a DRONES unit is within 3" of a friendly T'AU EMPIRE INFANTRY or BATTLESUIT unit, you may choose to allocate any wounds to the drones instead of the target unit'

In other words, it works exactly as if the drones were temorarily part of the target unit for the purposes of wound allocation, the drones would still get their saves.

I've used shield drones a lot in my games so far and I find them very nice for soaking wounds off of other targets.
If anything I think I preffer them to gun drones.

It's not in the book. It's in the FAQ/Errata. ;)
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/02/warhammer-40000-faq-now-available-july2gw-homepage-post-1/

Pages 53, 56, 57, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73
and 74 – Saviour Protocols
Change this rule to read:
‘Saviour Protocols: If a <Sept> Drones unit is within 3"
of a friendly <Sept> Infantry or <Sept> Battlesuit
unit when an enemy attack successfully wounds it, you
can allocate that wound to the Drones unit instead of
the target. If you do, that Drones unit suffers a mortal
wound instead of the normal damage.’


Ah, well, than I shall neglect to mention that to my friends :P

But seriously, did they not also errata anything about mortal wounds? maybe invuln saves now work with them? hmm, seems like a hasty fix, I'll probably ask to keep running it as pre-errata with my group for now till they have time to put more thought into it (I assume they are very busy trying to re-balance all the armies at once right now).

Lol don't do that if you want to keep them. :D

No, nothing about Mortal wounds. It's very likely that they simply didn't think things through with the Shield Drone and just wanted to make the Saviour Protocol work in line with other bodyguard rules.
They wouldn't be half as busy re-balancing things if they'd take their time and think about what they are doing. :D

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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
Posts: 291

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#21 » Jul 03 2017 06:20

Ye, it is very very very wierd thing to do. When was the last time an FAQ nerfed a unit by 50%? I mean, raise the cost by a few points, fine, change some minor detail, fine, but this is effectively removing armor/invul saves from the whole process. Some1 mentioned earlier that maybe they're trying to bring it in line with other bodyguard abilities which transfer to mortal wounds, but the bodyguard ability still includes an armour/invul save, saviour protocol doesn't.

Ricordis
Shas'La
Posts: 268

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#22 » Jul 03 2017 06:24

No, they can't.
Bodyguards have the same rule as Drones with the exception it works only for characters and they have to roll a dice before and on a 1 they fail the test to intercept the wound.
Drones are in this case the better bodyguards.

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 2365

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#23 » Jul 03 2017 06:48

Ricordis wrote:No, they can't.
Bodyguards have the same rule as Drones with the exception it works only for characters and they have to roll a dice before and on a 1 they fail the test to intercept the wound.
Drones are in this case the better bodyguards.

And that they lose a Mortal wound for each wound the guarded unit loses...which means a Drone can tank a full Lascannon shot but Crisis Bodyguards will lose d6 Mortal wounds.
Yeah GW is really bad in keeping rules in line lol

Drakshaa
Shas'Saal
Posts: 27

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#24 » Jul 03 2017 07:17

Panzer wrote:
Ricordis wrote:No, they can't.
Bodyguards have the same rule as Drones with the exception it works only for characters and they have to roll a dice before and on a 1 they fail the test to intercept the wound.
Drones are in this case the better bodyguards.

And that they lose a Mortal wound for each wound the guarded unit loses...which means a Drone can tank a full Lascannon shot but Crisis Bodyguards will lose d6 Mortal wounds.
Yeah GW is really bad in keeping rules in line lol

Do you know what would make it a lot easier for then to keep track of all these different versions of the same thing? Universal Special Rules.

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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
Posts: 291

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#25 » Jul 03 2017 07:17

Ricordis wrote:No, they can't. <snip>


I assume this is a reaction to silent: "Bodyguards can make an armour/invul save", if that's the case, I didn't say so. I meant that the process of resolving a wound when it's redirected from a character to bodyguard includes one armor/invul save on the character. If you redirect from infantry/battlesuit to a drone, there's no save in it.

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 2365

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#26 » Jul 03 2017 07:21

Drakshaa wrote:
Panzer wrote:
Ricordis wrote:No, they can't.
Bodyguards have the same rule as Drones with the exception it works only for characters and they have to roll a dice before and on a 1 they fail the test to intercept the wound.
Drones are in this case the better bodyguards.

And that they lose a Mortal wound for each wound the guarded unit loses...which means a Drone can tank a full Lascannon shot but Crisis Bodyguards will lose d6 Mortal wounds.
Yeah GW is really bad in keeping rules in line lol

Do you know what would make it a lot easier for then to keep track of all these different versions of the same thing? Universal Special Rules.

Yes it would, but I think it's fine that we got rid of them. They just need to have their intern database of special rules so they can copy&paste rules that are actually meant to work the same.
Otherwise they are free to give every unit their own special snowflake rule. I mean they coul do so in 7th as well, but now you have everything you need on the Datasheet and don't have tos search for the rules at 3 different places. ^^

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 2365

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#27 » Jul 03 2017 07:27

Gragagrogog wrote:
Ricordis wrote:No, they can't. <snip>


I assume this is a reaction to silent: "Bodyguards can make an armour/invul save", if that's the case, I didn't say so. I meant that the process of resolving a wound when it's redirected from a character to bodyguard includes one armor/invul save on the character. If you redirect from infantry/battlesuit to a drone, there's no save in it.

That's right. Longstrike would still be able to make his armor save and the warlord 6+ FnP and if they are protecting a Commander with Shield Gen he would be able to make his 4++ and the warlord 6+ FnP (or Stim Injector 6+).

Ricordis
Shas'La
Posts: 268

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#28 » Jul 03 2017 07:43

I never "snapped" or something else in my statement. That quote is simply false and it is presumptuos to disguise this as my words.
It was a simple statement. Bodyguards can't use their saves. They just take a mortal wound on a roll of 2+.

Gragagrogog wrote:
Ricordis wrote:No, they can't. <snip>


I assume this is a reaction to silent: "Bodyguards can make an armour/invul save", if that's the case, I didn't say so.[...]


Gragagrogog wrote:[...] but the bodyguard ability still includes an armour/invul save, saviour protocol doesn't.


You said it.
The Bodyguard ability doesn't include an save.

Just the sequence is different or when the ability is activated:

Try to hit
Try to wound
(Saviour Protocols)
Try to save
(Bodyguards)

edit: typos and added the sequence
Last edited by Ricordis on Jul 03 2017 07:56, edited 2 times in total.

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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
Posts: 291

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#29 » Jul 03 2017 07:48

Alright, I said it a bit ambiguously, it's cleared now, no worries.

Jburli
Shas'La
Posts: 102

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#30 » Jul 03 2017 08:36

Panzer wrote:Lets face it. Any use Shield Drones might still have Gun Drones simply do better due the additional 4 S5 shots for the same cost.


Agreed, I can't of many situations where unarmed shield drones are going to be better than gun drones. Even with bs5+ they hit more than fire warriors!

4++ saves are of little use if you're not protecting something big. I mean, if your enemy is using their lascannons etc to kill your drone squads, I'd probably be quite happy about that!

The only advantage might be if your enemy feels your shield drone squad isn't a threat they might ignore them, and they could sneak onto an objective.

DVeight
Shas'La
Posts: 66

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#31 » Jul 03 2017 10:47

- You can put your shield drones in front of characters with less than 10 wounds.

- You can have a couple units of shield drones as your pesky squads that are there to deny your opponent the field and approach to your core force.

- You can have the shield drones protecting the rear and flanks from any reserves coming in close proximity to your core force.

Two of the above can be reserved for other units as well.... leaving only one tactic left with the shield drones. Not a great result and if it is what was intended by GW, then they made a mess of this one.

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Lechai Skull
Shas'Saal
Posts: 365

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#32 » Jul 03 2017 11:33

Everyone is assuming that 'Saviour Protocols' are going to kick in often when our suits come under fire.

This is NOT the case.

Any opponent with half a brain is going to target the drones with small arms first. THIS is going to be the most common occurrence, and having a shield drone or 2 in a pack of 12 is going to help the longevity of the unit as a whole. Especially when targeted by weapons with a high volume of fire and 1 or 2 AP. Drones with a t-shirt save is going to drop a lot of them, and with terrible leadership, your going to lose even more. Then once they are gone your suits are exposed and vulnerable to the big weapons. Every opponent I've had, hasn't even bothered to shoot at my suits until all my drones were 100% removed. A liberal sprinkling of shield drones in your gun-drone units will keep your suits active. Mortal wounds or not.

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 2365

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#33 » Jul 04 2017 02:04

Lechai Skull wrote:Everyone is assuming that 'Saviour Protocols' are going to kick in often when our suits come under fire.

This is NOT the case.

Any opponent with half a brain is going to target the drones with small arms first. THIS is going to be the most common occurrence, and having a shield drone or 2 in a pack of 12 is going to help the longevity of the unit as a whole. Especially when targeted by weapons with a high volume of fire and 1 or 2 AP. Drones with a t-shirt save is going to drop a lot of them, and with terrible leadership, your going to lose even more. Then once they are gone your suits are exposed and vulnerable to the big weapons. Every opponent I've had, hasn't even bothered to shoot at my suits until all my drones were 100% removed. A liberal sprinkling of shield drones in your gun-drone units will keep your suits active. Mortal wounds or not.

It's not though. Shield Drones die against small arms fire as quick as Gun Drones. That's the problem.
AP-1/-2 wouldn't be small arms fire anymore and pretty much the only kind of shooting that would be directed at Drones that also matter for Shield Drones.
It's like when we would aim with Missile Pods and Ion weapon at Drones. Small arms fire would be our Pulse Weapons.
For Space Marines it would be Autocannons, Plasma, Grav, Assault Cannons or Heavy Bolter. Small arms fire for them would be regular Bolter fire.

Shield Drones CAN be better than Gun Drones, if the enemy dedicates his better anti-infantry dakka at them, but against small arms and true heavy weapons they aren't. And lets be fair. Against a unit of Devastators, a Landraider Crussader or something like that Shield Drones won't last much longer either.
I'd much rather had 4 S5 shots per Drone more for a unit that gets within 18" of the enemy or for backfield units as additional protection against enemy reserves.

I mean, lets test it out in actual games. I'd like to get proven wrong here but I doubt that Shield Drones will be worth taking over Gun Drones in most games.

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Lechai Skull
Shas'Saal
Posts: 365

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#34 » Jul 04 2017 03:35

I agree that most small arms are AP0
However
I had my entire unit of drones protection (about 8-10) wiped out by pask and his assault cannon style gun. My 3 suits and commander were wiped out by heavy weapon squads and a leman russ very cheaply. Had i taken a few shield drones, my commander (which was killed with the very last shooting shot he had) would have lived another turn.

You cant base everything against a stock marine army. Yes they are common. But there are a lot of weird and wonderful lists out there

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 2365

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#35 » Jul 04 2017 03:42

Oh I don't base everything against a stock Marine. It's called an example.
Astra Militarum will probably one of the strongest armies for now anyway, I doubt they would have had much of a problem with Shield Drones instead.

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Lechai Skull
Shas'Saal
Posts: 365

Re: RIP shield drones

Post#36 » Jul 04 2017 03:58

i did have a deus of them in that battle...

rolled snake eyes for their saves :(

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