Upcoming T'au Codex

Use this area for all discussions of the "gaming" aspect of 40K/Tau.
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Harkus959
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#469 » Oct 17 2017 05:01

This has been a very interesting thread to read through, and a lot of the comments seem dead on.

SIGNATURE SYSTEMS

I definitely see our Signature Systems returning (hopefully with a few new ones) as the Tau equivalent of a Relics list.

AUXILIARIES

As to new auxiliaries, human allies seem like a reasonable assumption, given that they already have GC as a human/alien mix, so we know GW is open to the idea of adapting AM kits for a less imperial flavour.

Other than that, my money is on Demiurg all the way. They already have a sizeable lore and in-game presence, despite not having any models. Ion-technology is from the Demiurg, and that's seen a marked increase in later editions. I remember that it was only the Ion Cannon and the CIB when I started playing Tau. They also had greater presence in BFG - with two Demiurg ships vs one each for Nicassar and Kroot - and in the lore they've been around since M.31 (I was reading "The Primarchs" which is a short story collection for the Horus Heresy setting, and the Alpha Legion story makes direct mention of the Demiurg). So, we know GW hasn't forgotten about them, and given the connections people often draw between them and the squats/space dwarfs, it's safe to assume GW know that there's a fan market for them too.

So, squats (sorry, Kharadron Overlords), Ion tech, BFG, and greater lore mention than other alien races make me think they're definitely earmarked for our new buddies.

That being said, the point has been raised that over a century has passed since the events of Gathering Storm, so "additional auxiliaries" may mean a brand new race that has been discovered and incorporated into the Tau empire, although this is doubtful. GW has plenty of unrepresented but fan-loved species already in existence, it seems unnecessary to create something entirely new when they already have viable options.

One last thing to say about auxiliaries is that a group box for the Kroot (kind of like a "start collecting" kit) including a carnivore squad, a squad of hounds, and krootox would be really cool and it it's economical enough, might encourage a greater Kroot presence on the tabletop.

SEPT RULES

So far, we have SM:7, CSM:8, AdMech:7, AM:8, and Craftworld Eldar(what's their abbreviation, CE?):5

It seems there's no hard and fast rule about how many sub-faction rules there are. Currently, they average at 7, so perhaps we'll see seven T'au septs fleshed out? CE only having 5 is a drastic drop, but I would guess it has more to do with there being other "Eldar" factions out there (Harleclowns, DE, Ynnari) rather than there being a lack of distinct sub-factions.
Looking at the AM, there are no rules for either Krieg or Elysian, so the presence or absence of a distinct faction doesn't seem to dictate the creation of rules, although it's sure to play a role. This is good news for Tau as it means that despite many of our septs not necessarily having distinct, well-defined character to them, they can still get rules.

T'au will certainly get a sept rule, as will Vior'la. Dal'yth has gotten plenty of attention due to the Damocles Crusade so they're likely in there too. Sa'cea seems to be popular - is that due to cities of death? I haven't encountered them much in my fluff and lore adventures - so they're likely to get a rule, as is N'dras what with all the little references and secretive comments about them, as well as the fact that, "secret weapons testing and development location" is already more distinct character than most septs got, and should be easily translatable into a game mechanic.
Mu'gulath Bay got tons of focus too, so I'm willing to bet it will get its own rule.

That puts us at 6 factions from my guestimates, leaving one more slot to bring us up to the current average. FSE will almost certainly get their own sept rule (O'Shovah having FSE as a sept in the index pretty much guarantees this).

The CSM "renegades" legion trait is worth mentioning though, as it's basically a sub-faction trait for those sub-factions without any distinct character of their own. We may well get something like this for the Tau given how little lore has been written on most of the septs.

Borkan and Kel'shan are other possible contenders based on lore presence.

THE ENCLAVES

So, as I mentioned, we pretty much know that the FSE are going to be a sept, and this has raised some concerns in terms of signature systems, strategems, etc. given how most sub-factions have received only a single faction specific strategem and relic in the new codices. However, given how much effort has been devoted to the FSE in previous editions we may find them getting their own "section" rather than a single entry in each of these cases. An entire codex supplement being reduced to one character, on item, and one special rule seems like a hectic downgrade, and the complete opposite of encouraging diversification, which is ostensibly what these sub-factions are supposed to do.
Even in prior codex editions, there was more effort made to mark the FSE as separate from standard Tau empire configurations, so I think it's safe to say GW will put a bit of effort into this even if the FSE don't become a brand new codex (ala Harleclowns, DG, etc). Rember, not all codexes WILL follow the same model, and certainly not down to the exact detail. We might end up with less sub-factions, but with more detail available to each.

FLUFF

So 100 years huh? Chaos Tau seems like going the opposite direction to what the Tau have been set up as. It would be like chaos 'crons or DE, neither of which seem imminent. But rebel Tau? Possibly, we already have FSE after all. I'm definitely looking forward to them exploring the impact of O'Shovah's return, and the death of Aun'Va. PLus, the continuing revelations of the Etherals grand plan, and exactly how Tau will interact with the warp and chaos. The new and improved galaxy scale eye of terror mean we're pretty much guaranteed to have encountered it en masse now, so it can't be swept under the rug as an isolated incident or an anomoly of some kind.

All in all, I'm looking forward to seeing how the general narrative post-War Zone Damocles plays out, and I certainly wouldn't say no to a few new characters given how much I liked Longstrike and Darkstrider.
Last edited by Harkus959 on Oct 18 2017 03:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#470 » Oct 17 2017 06:10

One thing I'm looking forward to that it seems to be prevalent in the new Codexes is relic weapons apart from the onager gauntlet we have never really had anything like that.

I can't see an abundance of melee weapons or even ranged relic weapons due to our considerable choice of weapons already, but the idea of a str6 ap -2 burst cannon or a relic CIB would be pretty cool.

Looking forward to FSE and what they have to offer I've always been a crisis suit fan

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Harkus959
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#471 » Oct 17 2017 06:22

Fusion Blades in the FSE were another example of a relic weapon, but apart from that I can't think of any.

Although both CIB and AFL were restricted to one per army when they were first released, so those could count.

I can see a stealth field being a relic option for standard commanders.

Random thoughts on strategems, we've mentioned JSJ as a strat, but another mechanic that would work well is ripple fire for 1CP, and it wouldn't have to be restricted to riptides anymore.

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Arka0415
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#472 » Oct 17 2017 06:35

Nymphomanius wrote:I can't see an abundance of melee weapons or even ranged relic weapons due to our considerable choice of weapons already, but the idea of a str6 ap -2 burst cannon or a relic CIB would be pretty cool.

Honestly, this would be exciting just from the modeling standpoint- designing your own souped-up Burst Cannon or experimental Cyclic Ion Blaster or something. I could look forward to that!

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AnonAmbientLight
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#473 » Oct 17 2017 11:40

Here's a leaked list of the Eldar Craftworld Attributes.

https://i.imgur.com/Zmx3YMD.jpg

Apparently it showed up on Facebook a couple of days ago, and confirmed two of the five sept rules already. Grain of salt and all that though.

I wonder if T'au will get the same thing.
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Panzer
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#474 » Oct 18 2017 02:07

The jetbike one sounds rather unlikely to be honest. It would be the first of those rules that targets a specific unit while all other apply to most of the army with some unit-types excluded.

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Harkus959
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#475 » Oct 18 2017 02:31

AnonAmbientLight wrote:Here's a leaked list of the Eldar Craftworld Attributes.

https://i.imgur.com/Zmx3YMD.jpg

Apparently it showed up on Facebook a couple of days ago, and confirmed two of the five sept rules already. Grain of salt and all that though.

I wonder if T'au will get the same thing.


Well, the Warhammer Community site confirms the Iyanden and Ulthwe attributes, as well as there being five craftworlds getting rules, so that leak could be accurate.

Panzer wrote:The jetbike one sounds rather unlikely to be honest. It would be the first of those rules that targets a specific unit while all other apply to most of the army with some unit-types excluded.


To be fair, the windrider hosts are pretty much entirely jetbikes (guardian jetbikes, mounted characters, shining spears, vipers) so that should still apply to the majority of a players army while encouraging a different type of build, much like the Iyanden attribute strongly encouraging ghost warriors.

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Panzer
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#476 » Oct 18 2017 02:35

Harkus959 wrote:
Panzer wrote:The jetbike one sounds rather unlikely to be honest. It would be the first of those rules that targets a specific unit while all other apply to most of the army with some unit-types excluded.


To be fair, the windrider hosts are pretty much entirely jetbikes (guardian jetbikes, mounted characters, shining spears, vipers) so that should still apply to the majority of a players army while encouraging a different type of build, much like the Iyanden attribute strongly encouraging ghost warriors.

Yeah but there's a difference between encouraging ghosts and something applying only to Jetbikes. ^^

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Harkus959
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#477 » Oct 18 2017 03:12

Panzer wrote:Yeah but there's a difference between encouraging ghosts and something applying only to Jetbikes. ^^


Fair enough. I guess I'm just noting that the craftworlds attributes seem to be focused on encouraging the use of certain units to create more "fluffy" armies, the jetbike bonus is just a little more direct, but in keeping with that general aim, especially if the CE get some more diversity in their jetbike equipped units, although it's already a handful of units in its own.

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Harkus959
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#478 » Oct 18 2017 10:24

The Biel-Tan craftworld focus confirmed the shuriken re-rolls, and the bonus leadership. Although that second bit only applies to aspect warriors which the leak didn't mention. The jetbikes one also looks like it's true judging by this quote, also from the craftworld focus:

"Biel-Tan armies are perfect if you love Aspect Warriors, shuriken weapons, or both. More of a fan of Jetbikes? You’re in luck – don’t miss our preview of Saim-Hann tomorrow, where we’ll be looking at the re-tuned and much improved Jetbikes, as well as even more handy Stratagems for your army."

That said, the leak didn't mention the aspect warrior detail (which again applies to a specific set of units, seemingly to encourage a particular, thematic, army build) so there may well be a slight variation to the jetbike perk to make it less restrictive.

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AnonAmbientLight
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#479 » Oct 18 2017 01:11

The write up makes it seem like any shuriken weapons get the rule.
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Panzer
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#480 » Oct 18 2017 01:59

Yeah all Shuriken weapons get the re-roll of 1s.
Considering the units who actually have Shuriken weapons and their alternative loadouts....it's okay-ish. Definitely not one of the strongest traits/tactics/attributes/whatever.

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Harkus959
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#481 » Oct 18 2017 03:23

AnonAmbientLight wrote:The write up makes it seem like any shuriken weapons get the rule.


Yeah, all shuriken weapons get the reroll. It's the leadership bonus that only applies to Aspect Warriors.

As an aside: do you feel the sub-faction rules are intended to create more competitive, tactical, or optimised army builds, or do they seem to be little rewards for building a fluff based army to encourage thematic builds?
Or, is it both?
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Arka0415
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#482 » Oct 18 2017 06:23

AnonAmbientLight wrote:The write up makes it seem like any shuriken weapons get the rule.

If, in our codex, we get a rule that lets sept models re-roll ones with Pulse weapons... that'd be so, hopelessly lame. Let's hope this doesn't become a trend!

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Harkus959
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#483 » Oct 18 2017 06:30

Arka0415 wrote:
AnonAmbientLight wrote:The write up makes it seem like any shuriken weapons get the rule.

If, in our codex, we get a rule that lets sept models re-roll ones with Pulse weapons...


So marker lights? XP yeah, I'm with you on that. A lot of the marine tactics (loyalist and traitor variants) seemed pretty copy paste in terms of effects, but CE and AdMech seem to cater to more nuanced interactions with their races, so hopefully we get some creative and well thought out effects for the Tau.

We're the optimists of the galaxy after all.

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AnonAmbientLight
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#484 » Oct 19 2017 12:46

Harkus959 wrote:
Yeah, all shuriken weapons get the reroll. It's the leadership bonus that only applies to Aspect Warriors.

As an aside: do you feel the sub-faction rules are intended to create more competitive, tactical, or optimised army builds, or do they seem to be little rewards for building a fluff based army to encourage thematic builds?
Or, is it both?


Well it's not awful. Eldar already hit on 3s to begin with. Getting re-rolls of 1 on even their basic weapons, is pretty significant.

It seems they are trying to achieve a couple of things with sub-faction rules. They are trying to make armies more interesting. Up until now, you painted your guys however you wanted to, but it largely meant nothing. Now there's an army identity you can get behind. It's a win-win for GW. It builds an identity to the army you play as, which will entice you to play more and more importantly collect more stuff. It's also good for the game. It makes the game more interesting and adds layers of depth and strategy to it.

Speaking for T'au, before you had two choices. Farsight Enclaves or normal T'au. Pretty bland, huh? With our new codex, we will likely have at least four options. Maybe we will have a Sept that focuses heavy on Battlesuits, I'll build a list around that. Maybe we will have a Sept that focuses heavy on infantry, I'll build a list around that. You could take two detachments where one focuses on Battlesuits from Sept A and the other detachment focuses on infantry from Sept B. You add depth to the game without having to change much.

Any kind of depth or extra content to the game is always welcomed IMO.
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Arka0415
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#485 » Oct 19 2017 01:00

AnonAmbientLight wrote:Maybe we will have a Sept that focuses heavy on Battlesuits, I'll build a list around that. Maybe we will have a Sept that focuses heavy on infantry, I'll build a list around that. You could take two detachments where one focuses on Battlesuits from Sept A and the other detachment focuses on infantry from Sept B. You add depth to the game without having to change much.

Any kind of depth or extra content to the game is always welcomed IMO.

The risk is that it could lead many players to regret their sept choices and to struggle with the choice between (a) playing the army they identify with, and (b) pretending their army is from a different sept.

For example, imagine a player with a Sa'cea battlesuit list. What if Sa'cea ends up with a pointless trait like +1 LD, while a let's say Enclaves gets a few handy battlesuit bonuses. In this case, what's the Sa'cea player to do? Do they pick the sept they identify with, Sa'cea, and end up with a strictly inferior army, or do they switch to Enclaves for the bonus while feeling bad that they aren't really playing Sa'cea anymore?

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Panzer
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#486 » Oct 19 2017 01:03

Well there's always a risk with change, but I pretty much agree with Anon there. It's one of the best things about 8th for me at the moment and I can't wait to get our Codex so I can start planning my army from ground up again (with the same general theme in mind though of course).

Also yes, of course if they care about their Sept from a fluff point of view they are going to stick with the worse rules. It's what Space Marines have been doing since like forever unless they are tournament player (but there fluff means little anyway). That's what it means to be dedicated to a specific thing.
I for one don't care about Sa'Cea at all. Too little fluff about them. I chose my secondary color before learning what it means in T'au heraldry and that there's a Sept using orange. So while it sucks a bit having to re-paint those parts if it comes to it, I really don't mind slapping a different Septs name over it if the rules fit my playstyle better.
Things could change though if GW gives us more fluff for each Sept (like actual novels for example) but that's always a risk for anyone who painted their models a specific color.

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