Upcoming T'au Codex

Use this area for all discussions of the "gaming" aspect of 40K/Tau.
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QimRas
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#1387 » Jan 13 2018 12:06

Beerson wrote:We might get new character model though, and I am really hoping we get non-T'au sept Longstrike, as this is something I really dislike about the current keywords, if you want to play tanks, you need to play T'au sept, also it's about time longstrike's suit is put into production for other septs


This!

All the "prototype" equipment needs to be more generally available. Shadowsuns Command Drones. The Ghostkeels Stealth Drones. The Riptides Shielded Missile Drones. Broadsides Missile Drones. Shadowsuns two weapon Stealth Suit. Longstrikes Vehicle Command suit.

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Haechi
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#1388 » Jan 13 2018 02:38

Yes... Imagine a new Elite unit made entirely of Shadow Sun's XV22 suits... With a great modular plastic kit. That would be amazing.

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Shas'O Ora
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#1389 » Jan 13 2018 03:42

Yes... Imagine a new Elite unit made entirely of Shadow Sun's XV22 suits... With a great modular plastic kit. That would be amazing.


Best way to solve the Commander-spam-Problem I´ve heard till now :D

AngryMook
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#1390 » Jan 13 2018 04:47

Ricordis wrote:The firecaste is literally a race of high skilled hunters trained in synergetic tactics and long range warfare. Commanders are tactical geniuses and the presence of an Ethereal should raise a T'au army's power significantly. The AI is able to bring a battlesuit safely out of the warzone and even do damage before to save the (wounded) pilot and suit itself.

I see, why T'au can't all have 2+ BS with S8 weapons and 30" range minimum. The game still needs to be balanced. But if the balancing goes in a direction where the whole identity is lost it hurts.
It's like cutting away step by step the vehicles from AM.

T'au fluff is really far away from what is shown on the table. And I don't even talk about the novels. The codex/index contradicts oneself; telling us on the first pages how great T'au technology and overall warfare is and a few pages later it reveals itself as lie.


While the fire caste is the largest and strongest of the Tau, they are still just not as suited physically to warfare as non-gene modified humans (or just about any of the races represented on the table). The tau castes have a high degree of meritocracy (though limited within the caste and occasionally undercut by choices "for the greater good" by ethereals) so generally commanders are at least competent (but probably good), not all of them are geniuses. Compare this to the Imperium where some regiments are similarly structured and some commands are designated by birth or connections.

The average Tau commanders are going to be much better on average, but the best commanders on both sides are probably about equal. Humans however live much longer lives than Tau (and eldar even longer obviously) either because they're post-human (space marines/cybernetics) or even just through juvenat treatments (which the tau don't have an equivalent to as of the 7th ed timeline). So good human commanders will both get more experience and stay in positions of command longer than a Tau commander.

Tau technology is in a goofy spot compared to imperial tech. In some areas they may be more advanced, but for the most part the advantages of tau tech are: that they are still rapidly developing; they understand their tech; the use of their tech is more ubiquitous. The imperium as a whole (there are worlds stuck in technological ruts similar to our earlier history though) has forgotten more than the tau yet know, and still uses (though sometimes can't reproduce) some of that tech.

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leo1925
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#1391 » Jan 13 2018 04:51

Beerson wrote:
Wes wrote:I'm excited by the idea of new models. But as someone who just picked up the game a few months ago, I'm also dreading it. I haven't gotten a lot of use out of the models I already own. If new Crisis Suit models are released, for example, I'll feel tempted to buy. I was looking forward to a short period of time where I had 2,500 points and didn't need to spend a lot of money on models for awhile! :P (no one ever reaches that point, though, right?)

I know I can use the existing models - they don't go out of date and don't become illegal. So it's my own fault if I feel pressured to buy newer ones.


Don't worry, crisis suits, broadsides, fire warriors, drones, hammerheads and all the specialty suits will stay the same, as they were updated or released relatively recently, if we get new models for existing units, it will likely be vespid or kroot, more likely we will get new unit, my money is on either more kroot or demiurg (I kinda hope it's not demiurg though and we get different way of psychic defense then non-tau models)

We might get new character model though, and I am really hoping we get non-T'au sept Longstrike, as this is something I really dislike about the current keywords, if you want to play tanks, you need to play T'au sept, also it's about time longstrike's suit is put into production for other septs


I also hope that we get a "tank commander", basically a longstrike without the +1 to wound rolls, after all enough time has passed and longstrike's experimental suit shouldn't be experimental any more.

AngryMook
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#1392 » Jan 13 2018 06:50

Yeah, the tau are far to pragmatic to let successful inventions to remain one-offs for extended periods of time. Also, unless they start freezing everyone or invent their own equivalent of juvenat tech; a lot of current/previous tau characters should be dead of old age by now.

Klapaucius87
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#1393 » Jan 13 2018 07:08

The timeline jumped of over a century. Named characters should be dead.
Would make sense that farsight, longstrike, etc. become titles for the ace in it's field instead of the actual characters.
GW did it with tyranids characters so isn't a new thing.

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leo1925
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#1394 » Jan 13 2018 07:25

Klapaucius87 wrote:The timeline jumped of over a century. Named characters should be dead.
Would make sense that farsight, longstrike, etc. become titles for the ace in it's field instead of the actual characters.
GW did it with tyranids characters so isn't a new thing.


Don't the Tau have stasis technology?

BTW the same problem applies to AM named characters.

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Torch
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#1395 » Jan 13 2018 07:33

Klapaucius87 wrote:The timeline jumped of over a century. Named characters should be dead.
Would make sense that farsight, longstrike, etc. become titles for the ace in it's field instead of the actual characters.
GW did it with tyranids characters so isn't a new thing.


I can see Longstrike and Darkstrider becoming titles or ranks (and I would very much encourage that so that we don't have to be T'au sept to get them), but why Farsight? He's basically immortal with how many Orks he's killed. Not to mention the Ethereals don't want to honor his name.

Nymphomanius
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#1396 » Jan 13 2018 07:47

Torch wrote:
Klapaucius87 wrote:The timeline jumped of over a century. Named characters should be dead.
Would make sense that farsight, longstrike, etc. become titles for the ace in it's field instead of the actual characters.
GW did it with tyranids characters so isn't a new thing.


I can see Longstrike and Darkstrider becoming titles or ranks (and I would very much encourage that so that we don't have to be T'au sept to get them), but why Farsight? He's basically immortal with how many Orks he's killed. Not to mention the Ethereals don't want to honor his name.


The reason that they're still alive is the plot demands it, they said something about the eldar ( may have been about fantasy elves but all similar) when asked how a "dying" race always has enough warriors to sacrifice millions to save the world / galaxy.

They answered that there's as many elves as the plot demands, is probably the same for heroes they're there because GW wants them to be there

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Haechi
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#1397 » Jan 13 2018 09:10

leo1925 wrote:
Klapaucius87 wrote:The timeline jumped of over a century. Named characters should be dead.
Would make sense that farsight, longstrike, etc. become titles for the ace in it's field instead of the actual characters.
GW did it with tyranids characters so isn't a new thing.


Don't the Tau have stasis technology?

BTW the same problem applies to AM named characters.


They do. Shadowsun and many of Puretide's student are kept in stasis and woken up decades apart to lead the most critical campaigns or expension spheres.

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Beerson
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#1398 » Jan 14 2018 10:47

Haechi wrote:They do. Shadowsun and many of Puretide's student are kept in stasis and woken up decades apart to lead the most critical campaigns or expension spheres.

Exactly, it can be expected that characters like longstrike and darkstrider are kept in stasis between expansions as well, so while they live for decades, they last for centuries

Ricordis
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#1399 » Jan 14 2018 12:22

And that's simply stupid. A military leader needs experience on the battlefield but also far from it.
I imagine Shadowsun being defrosted and briefed how technology changed the last few decades. Enemies and T'au themselves progressed.
How should a commander adapt to new situations he only knows via briefings?
It's like taking Douglas MacArthur out of stasis, giving him command of an entire modern strike force and pointing at Iraq.
"Go dude and win this war. Btw, don't shoot the Germans there; we are allied now. Yeah, we know you just fought them "yesterday" but that was in fact over 70 years ago."

Time to "engram" the ancient heroes :D

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Gragagrogog
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#1400 » Jan 14 2018 12:38

I think you're biased by how fast we humans are progressing right now, in 40k there isn't that much new tech (or anything else rly) developing.

Plus, if Tau stasis tech is really good, the stress on the body with freezing/unfreezing will be minimal or none. You can unfreeze them for a few days each year to get the newest tech info, run them through some battle simulations, inform them about politics, etc...

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Beerson
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#1401 » Jan 14 2018 12:40

Well that's the same for say IG, you have a commander of IG regimet that gets tasked with sieging gue'vessa world, he never fought tau, he has no experience with such combat as he onlu fought chaos cultists and orcs, he gets briefed on known (outdated) Tau tech, tau tactics and go win this war or else

Also a point that gets missed here is that tau commanders are not tactical geniuses selected for a role of commander, but veterans that fought enought battles to reach the rank of commander (remember, promotion in fire caste is based on set number of battles survived essentially)

Ricordis
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#1402 » Jan 14 2018 01:25

I know you can build up reasons why someone still lives 100 years later. But in my eyes progressing in a story means you also have to leave something behind.
I favor making the prototype suits usable by any Shas'el upwards and engram the geniuses of kauyon and mont'ka so you can upgrade any Commander to a new Shadowsun/Farsight with their corresponding rules and keywords.
I like that idea more than "commander ex fridge".

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SinisterSamurai
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#1403 » Jan 15 2018 03:40

No one is certain how GW will handle the timeskip for T'au. Way I see it, GW can pick from Time shenanigans, stasus shenanigans, rename shenanigans, and ignoring the contradictions.

Ethereals maybe live for centuries, maybe not. The fluff isn't particularly clear, I don't believe. Firecaste T'au should mostly be dead from old age, if some of the older fluff remains consistent.

Farsight is protected against the ravages of time because of his sword. Shadowsun is eligible for freezing. Darkstrider and Longstrike, I would think, would not be so valuable as to be worth freezing and keeping out of the field for an indefinite period of time. Between engagements, sure, but frozen for the long term? Aun'va is dead, and is now a hologram or phased out. Aun'shi, last I heard, was missing in action somewhere in Commorragh's arenas.

Without models/rules, we've got the rest of the Eight, some of whom are biologically or cybernetically immortal, and some who are already receiving the Dread Pirate Roberts treatment. There's Angkor Prok whom we haven't heard from in at least a decade. How long do Kroot live? We don't know. From Warzone Damocles, there's Aun'Do, Sternshield, and Swiftflame, the latter two received a fluffing treatment in the recent T'au painting Guide. And we've got the Forge World characters, and probably a dozen other one-off characters I can't remember.

GW could easily just rename and Dread Pirate Roberts many of the character models, keeping general function, feel, and fluff intact, but somehow that potential loss of branding doesn't feel like GW (unless I look at AoS).

Someone mentioned Astra Militarum, but my understanding is that Human nobles have some sort of immortality juice they give out to people they like. I suppose T'au could get something like that for the vets, but I largely suspect it was just GW handwaving and ignoring the issue, and I largely suspect that's what'll happen for T'au.

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Temennigru
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#1404 » Jan 15 2018 04:25

Haechi wrote:Yes... Imagine a new Elite unit made entirely of Shadow Sun's XV22 suits... With a great modular plastic kit. That would be amazing.

I don't think that will be the case, as XV22s are "too expensive for mass deployment", and they only give it to "trusted commanders".
I DO see a "commander in XV22 battlesuit" coming out though.
And I wouldn't mind them making troops in XV29 or XV19 battlesuits (according to http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Tau_Battlesuit, these would be frontal assault versions of the XV1 or XV2 infantry battlesuits) to compete with space marines.
Ricordis wrote:I know you can build up reasons why someone still lives 100 years later. But in my eyes progressing in a story means you also have to leave something behind.
I favor making the prototype suits usable by any Shas'el upwards and engram the geniuses of kauyon and mont'ka so you can upgrade any Commander to a new Shadowsun/Farsight with their corresponding rules and keywords.
I like that idea more than "commander ex fridge".

Aun'va has been dead for some time now, and you can still field him.

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