pilky wrote: Temennigru wrote:
pilky wrote:I don’t think there is anything too wrong with rail weapons as is in terms of rules. I mean Rail Guns, HRR, and Rail Rifles map reasonably well to Lascannons and Plasma Rifles in terms of filling similar roles. We generally have better range better strength, better AP, and the chance of mortal wounds. As a bonus we get submunitions on the Rail Gun. I think for the most part we just need points changes.
For example, there's no reason a Hammerhead should be nearly 30 points more than a Predator when the only stat differences are 2 extra wounds and Fly, and it has fewer weapons slots. Railguns aren’t too badly priced. Rail Rifles need to drop in cost a lot to reflect a 5+ save model being the carrier, but Rapid Fire is pretty good.
The hardest is the HRR. One possibility that could be interesting is giving it a submunitions shot like the Railgun. The option of a S5 AP-1 blast gives you more tactical flexibility. They could also make it “roll 2D6 and pick the highest” for the number of shots to reflect the twin nature. I doubt it would happen, but it would certainly make the HRR a more interesting option vs missile pods.
We actually don’t
Lascannons are str 9.
Heavy rail rifles and swiftstrike railguns are str8.
And lascannons are spammable. A predator annihilator can have 4. A hammerhead can have 1 railgun.
Sure, you can't make direct comparison but they're somewhat similar. A lascannon is slightly better than a HRR vs T8, but for T7 and lower the HRR is better. And I agree about the spamability but that is fixed by appropriately costing the Hammerhead. The railgun itself is only slightly overcosted vs a lascannon (the inverse problem of the Rail Rifle where the gun is too expensive but the bearer isn't badly priced)
Reducing the cost of the hammerhead wouldn't fix the problem with lascannon spammability. The whole point of having spammable weapons, is each one you cram into a platform you chip away at the cost of the vehicle till it's meaningless. 4 lascannons means you pay for 1/4 of a predator for each lascannon you can field. That means, for the hammerhead to be in equal terms, it would have to cost about 1/3 the price of a predator (because of drones and stuff) and that is really bad because:
1- The hammerhead would basically be a lascannon heavy weapons team with way more survivability, which would make it very unbalanced
2- We would have to buy 4 hammerheads for each predator annihilator a space marine player has to buy to field the same firepower, which would make our army wildly overpriced in $$ terms.
That is why your big stuff needs to have big impact. Otherwise you are just getting an overpriced version of your basic infantry.
I honestly think the best course of action is to have the railgun have AT LEAST double the firepower of a lascannon (I would make it triple) and have the whole kit cost as much as a predator with 2 lascannons.
As for the price of the railguns, they are not just "slightly overcosted".
A swiftstrike railgun, which is essentially a heavy rail rifle with shorter range, costs DOUBLE the number of points of a twin lascannon.
That is unacceptable.
Not only that, but the heavy rail rifle, which deals less average damage than a twin lascannon, is 10 points more expensive than the twin lascannon simply because it has 12" more of range and a higher AP (which is actually worse than +1 Str). This is also unacceptable.
As people have stated before, GW has been over-pricing range this edition for absolutely no reason. It does not help you that much since you will almost never be shooting at a target from the far ends of the table. They are pricing range in the opposite way that they should. An increase in range at shorter ranges should be WAY more valuable than an increase in range at longer ranges. But since they are doing the points increases relative to the scale of the model, and larger models have the highest ranges, the increase in ranges at higher ranges turn out to be way more expensive than at lower ranges. A 100% increase in range at 6" to 12" should practically double the price of the weapon, while 48" to 60" should be worth only about 3 or 5 points. That is, given that the weapons have IDENTICAL stats, which the railgun and lascannon don't.