Upcoming T'au Codex

Use this area for all discussions of the "gaming" aspect of 40K/Tau.
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Beerson
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#703 » Nov 15 2017 12:52

Ricordis wrote:The thing with a free pistol for a shas'ui might be a test or a prototype for something. Pulse pistols at extra cost for every Firewarrior?

well this might actually turn up to be in codex, after all the guide I got for my Fire warrior kit shows that you can glue pulse pistols to shas'la (just not the one with a hand), would be interesting

the thing I would really like to see in new codex though, and I feel like it's supposed to be there, is ML drones hitting on 4+ without dc, they are our dedicated ML unit/models so they shouldn't be the worst source of ML (unlike pathfinders who are snipers and or infantry gunline)
or maybe give the drones re-roll on ML hits (some twin linked markerlight or something)

also when it comes to infantry, I feel like they really could make kroot carnivores a little bit better in cc

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Panzer
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#704 » Nov 15 2017 01:11

Beerson wrote:
Ricordis wrote:The thing with a free pistol for a shas'ui might be a test or a prototype for something. Pulse pistols at extra cost for every Firewarrior?

well this might actually turn up to be in codex, after all the guide I got for my Fire warrior kit shows that you can glue pulse pistols to shas'la (just not the one with a hand), would be interesting

the thing I would really like to see in new codex though, and I feel like it's supposed to be there, is ML drones hitting on 4+ without dc, they are our dedicated ML unit/models so they shouldn't be the worst source of ML (unlike pathfinders who are snipers and or infantry gunline)
or maybe give the drones re-roll on ML hits (some twin linked markerlight or something)

also when it comes to infantry, I feel like they really could make kroot carnivores a little bit better in cc

Actually Pathfinder are our dedicated marker unit among their other tasks. Drones are always just in a supportive role.

Nymphomanius
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#705 » Nov 16 2017 05:55

So after a heavy loss to the new tyranids I was browsing their new codex to see how much the carnifexes that shot my infantry to bits are and I was appalled and excited.

Their carnifex can now out stealth suit our stealth suits!!

For 5pts less than 4 standard stealth suits you can get a carnifex that gives -1 to hit when being shot at, BS3+, and 4 devourers each an 18" assault 6 str6 ap0 weapon!

That's 24 shots a Turn at better BS, can potentially RR 1's if stationary depending on hive fleet for less than the cost of 4 stealth suits!!

But also excited because the devourers shots doubled from the index from assault 3 to assault 6 and stayed the same price at 3pts cheaper than a burst cannon, a taste of what's to come? Assault 8 burst cannons? Who knows but I was a little sickened that we can be outshot by carnifexes.

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Haechi
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#706 » Nov 16 2017 06:11

5 points for a Assault 6 S6 weapon???? What the hell... I'd wait for the FAQ before buying 10 haha.

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Panzer
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#707 » Nov 16 2017 06:18

If Burst Cannons would get double the shots and accordingly the heavier burst cannon variants more shots as well I'd be happy to no end....but I won't get my hopes up, the Burst Cannon was always bad. :D

though lets see what it mean if the BC would get 8 shots and 6 shots respectively:
3 Stealth Suits with 24/18 S5 AP-1 shots
Devilfish with 16/14 S5 AP0 shots
Piranha with 16/14 S5 AP0 shots
Ghostkeel with 16/12 S5 AP-1 shots on his secondarys
Stormsurge with 38/34 S5 AP-1 shots on his secondarys

3 Tripple BC Crisis with 72/54 S5 AP0 shots
3 Double BC+ATS Crisis with 48/36 S5 AP-1 shots
Quad BC Commander with 32/24 S5 AP0 shots
Tripple BC+ATS Commander with 24/18 S5 AP-1 shots

Coldstar would have to get more shots as well so from 8 to probably 12 shots (his BC shots didn't get doubled with the new twin linked so I doubt it would now unfortunately)?

...I wouldn't complain, that's a lot of dakka! :D
It just brings the question what our Strike Teams are supposed to do then.
But again, I won't get my hopes up for the Burst Cannon to be ever a good weapon. ^^

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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#708 » Nov 16 2017 06:52

Haechi wrote:5 points for a Assault 6 S6 weapon???? What the hell... I'd wait for the FAQ before buying 10 haha.


Burst cannon is 10 so it's 7 and technically can only buy them in pairs but yeah 14 for an assault 12 str6 weapon makes the Riptide look even worse than it is now, ok has no Ap but for 40pts more than as Riptide w HBC and 2x SMS (and no upgrades)
Riptide gets 8 str6 ap-1 shots +
8 Str 5 shots
OR
3 carnifexes w 72str6 shots between them at +1BS

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Panzer
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#709 » Nov 16 2017 07:03

Haechi wrote:5 points for a Assault 6 S6 weapon???? What the hell... I'd wait for the FAQ before buying 10 haha.

7p actually. Just checked.


I'd honestly say a single Carnifex and 3 Stealth Suits are very comparable with an obvious edge for the Carnifex.
Carnifex with
- 24 18" S6 AP0 D1 weapons
- at BS3+ (Enhanced Senses upgrade)
- -1 to-hit against shooting (Spore Cyst upgrade)
- WS4+ S6 T7 W8 A4 Sv3+ statline
= 115p

3 Stealth Suits with
- 12 18" S5 AP-1 D1 weapons (ATS upgrade)
- at BS4+
- -1 to-hit against everything
- Infiltrate
- FLY keyword
- Infantry keyword (important for objectives, Cover and potential buffs)
- WS5+ S4 T4 W2(6 for the unit) A2(6 for the unit) Sv3+(2+ in cover)
= 114p

If we take the Thornback instead of the regular Carnifex it also gets ignore Cover against Infantry, some mortal wounds on 6s aura for units he's in melee with and a pair of monstrous scything talons instead of the second devourer, a better battering ram against infantry and loses the -1 to-hit upgrade for a total of -1p (so 114p but harder to compare with the Stealth Suits).

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Haechi
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#710 » Nov 16 2017 07:14

Nymphomanius wrote:
Haechi wrote:5 points for a Assault 6 S6 weapon???? What the hell... I'd wait for the FAQ before buying 10 haha.



Riptide gets 8 str6 ap-1 shots +
8 Str 5 shots
OR
3 carnifexes w 72str6 shots between them at +1BS


This is sad lol

Nymphomanius
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#711 » Nov 16 2017 07:23

Panzer wrote:
Haechi wrote:5 points for a Assault 6 S6 weapon???? What the hell... I'd wait for the FAQ before buying 10 haha.

7p actually. Just checked.


I'd honestly say a single Carnifex and 3 Stealth Suits are very comparable with an obvious edge for the Carnifex.
Carnifex with
- 24 18" S6 AP0 D1 weapons
- at BS3+ (Enhanced Senses upgrade)
- -1 to-hit against shooting (Spore Cyst upgrade)
- WS4+ S6 T7 W8 A4 Sv3+ statline
= 115p

3 Stealth Suits with
- 12 18" S5 AP-1 D1 weapons (ATS upgrade)
- at BS4+
- -1 to-hit against everything
- Infiltrate
- FLY keyword
- Infantry keyword (important for objectives, Cover and potential buffs)
- WS5+ S4 T4 W2(6 for the unit) A2(6 for the unit) Sv3+(2+ in cover)
= 114p
.


Comparable in what sense, the carnifexes have double the shots at higher Str, better BS, higher toughness, more wounds. Ok can't FLY or infiltrate but why are your stealth suits in combat?

If you compare them shooting at MEQ the stealth suits do 1.98 wounds and the Carnifex does 6.89

In terms of endurance when being shot at by a heavy bolter it has a 8.25% chance to wound a carnifex and a 10.89% chance to wound a Stealth suit which after 2 wounds loses 33% of its firepower.

This should go 1 of 2 ways.

FAQ / Chapter approved carnifex gets nerfed (either less shots, no +BS or points increase)

In our codex burst cannons and our big guys get either big buffs or massive points decreases (I hope for this one)

As it stands the scales are tipped so heavily towards the new codex we can't even see the floor...

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Panzer
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#712 » Nov 16 2017 07:34

Nymphomanius wrote:
Panzer wrote:
Haechi wrote:5 points for a Assault 6 S6 weapon???? What the hell... I'd wait for the FAQ before buying 10 haha.

7p actually. Just checked.


I'd honestly say a single Carnifex and 3 Stealth Suits are very comparable with an obvious edge for the Carnifex.
Carnifex with
- 24 18" S6 AP0 D1 weapons
- at BS3+ (Enhanced Senses upgrade)
- -1 to-hit against shooting (Spore Cyst upgrade)
- WS4+ S6 T7 W8 A4 Sv3+ statline
= 115p

3 Stealth Suits with
- 12 18" S5 AP-1 D1 weapons (ATS upgrade)
- at BS4+
- -1 to-hit against everything
- Infiltrate
- FLY keyword
- Infantry keyword (important for objectives, Cover and potential buffs)
- WS5+ S4 T4 W2(6 for the unit) A2(6 for the unit) Sv3+(2+ in cover)
= 114p
.


Comparable in what sense, the carnifexes have double the shots at higher Str, better BS, higher toughness, more wounds. Ok can't FLY or infiltrate but why are your stealth suits in combat?

If you compare them shooting at MEQ the stealth suits do 1.98 wounds and the Carnifex does 6.89

In terms of endurance when being shot at by a heavy bolter it has a 8.25% chance to wound a carnifex and a 10.89% chance to wound a Stealth suit which after 2 wounds loses 33% of its firepower.

This should go 1 of 2 ways.

FAQ / Chapter approved carnifex gets nerfed (either less shots, no +BS or points increase)

In our codex burst cannons and our big guys get either big buffs or massive points decreases (I hope for this one)

As it stands the scales are tipped so heavily towards the new codex we can't even see the floor...

Why my Suits are in melee? Because their range is pretty low and charging non-dedicated melee units is not a bad idea this edition due having the FLY keyword of course.

Also I did say that the Carnifex is better, didn't I? It's also to be expected. It's a unit they put a lot of focus on and it's a Codex release while we are still having only our Index units. The Carnifex basically did a 180° compared to its Index version.

3 Stealth Suits with BC+ATS do 2 wounds against MEQ and a Carnifex with 4 devourer does 3.56 wounds against MEQ. Both after saves.

And no clue where you got your percentages from. A 50% chance to hit (keep in mind the -1 to-hit) and a 50% chance to wound (S4 T4) is not a 10.89% chance in my book.
Even if I go with hitting on 3s and using only a 3+ armor it's an average of 0.111111 wounds from a single Bolter shot (0.0833 when applying the to-hit modifier and 0.04167 when in cover which is significantly easier for them than it is for the Carnifex).

So since I can't really compare your numbers with mine I won't say anything in that regard but I suggest checking your numbers again.

Nymphomanius
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#713 » Nov 16 2017 07:51

Panzer wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:
Panzer wrote:7p actually. Just checked.


I'd honestly say a single Carnifex and 3 Stealth Suits are very comparable with an obvious edge for the Carnifex.
Carnifex with
- 24 18" S6 AP0 D1 weapons
- at BS3+ (Enhanced Senses upgrade)
- -1 to-hit against shooting (Spore Cyst upgrade)
- WS4+ S6 T7 W8 A4 Sv3+ statline
= 115p

3 Stealth Suits with
- 12 18" S5 AP-1 D1 weapons (ATS upgrade)
- at BS4+
- -1 to-hit against everything
- Infiltrate
- FLY keyword
- Infantry keyword (important for objectives, Cover and potential buffs)
- WS5+ S4 T4 W2(6 for the unit) A2(6 for the unit) Sv3+(2+ in cover)
= 114p
.


Comparable in what sense, the carnifexes have double the shots at higher Str, better BS, higher toughness, more wounds. Ok can't FLY or infiltrate but why are your stealth suits in combat?

If you compare them shooting at MEQ the stealth suits do 1.98 wounds and the Carnifex does 6.89

In terms of endurance when being shot at by a heavy bolter it has a 8.25% chance to wound a carnifex and a 10.89% chance to wound a Stealth suit which after 2 wounds loses 33% of its firepower.

This should go 1 of 2 ways.

FAQ / Chapter approved carnifex gets nerfed (either less shots, no +BS or points increase)

In our codex burst cannons and our big guys get either big buffs or massive points decreases (I hope for this one)

As it stands the scales are tipped so heavily towards the new codex we can't even see the floor...

Why my Suits are in melee? Because their range is pretty low and charging non-dedicated melee units is not a bad idea this edition due having the FLY keyword of course.

Also I did say that the Carnifex is better, didn't I? It's also to be expected. It's a unit they put a lot of focus on and it's a Codex release while we are still having only our Index units. The Carnifex basically did a 180° compared to its Index version.

3 Stealth Suits with BC+ATS do 2 wounds against MEQ and a Carnifex with 4 devourer does 3.56 wounds against MEQ. Both after saves.

And no clue where you got your percentages from. A 50% chance to hit (keep in mind the -1 to-hit) and a 50% chance to wound (S4 T4) is not a 10.89% chance in my book.
Even if I go with hitting on 3s and using only a 3+ armor it's an average of 0.111111 wounds from a single Bolter shot (0.0833 when applying the to-hit modifier and 0.04167 when in cover which is significantly easier for them than it is for the Carnifex).

So since I can't really compare your numbers with mine I won't say anything in that regard but I suggest checking your numbers again.


I said heavy bolter so Str 5 ap-1 50% to hit 66% to wound (33%) 3+ save in cover (33% fail) is 10.89%
Or 16.5% out of cover.

You are correct about wounds vs MEQ for devourers I think I accidentally calculated chance to pass instead of chance to fail accidentally giving SM flak armour :D

I agree bolters have less of a gap than str5/6 weapons but let's be honest str5 + is what I'm shooting at a fex, ideally str8+ but we don't have access to that much of it and most if not all str8+ weapons are multiple damage which is bad news for stealth suits again, though D6 is much worse for the fex.
And stealth suits do have saviour Protocol where tyranids don't get anything close( which is good because that would be insane)

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Panzer
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#714 » Nov 16 2017 08:04

Nymphomanius wrote:
Panzer wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:
Comparable in what sense, the carnifexes have double the shots at higher Str, better BS, higher toughness, more wounds. Ok can't FLY or infiltrate but why are your stealth suits in combat?

If you compare them shooting at MEQ the stealth suits do 1.98 wounds and the Carnifex does 6.89

In terms of endurance when being shot at by a heavy bolter it has a 8.25% chance to wound a carnifex and a 10.89% chance to wound a Stealth suit which after 2 wounds loses 33% of its firepower.

This should go 1 of 2 ways.

FAQ / Chapter approved carnifex gets nerfed (either less shots, no +BS or points increase)

In our codex burst cannons and our big guys get either big buffs or massive points decreases (I hope for this one)

As it stands the scales are tipped so heavily towards the new codex we can't even see the floor...

Why my Suits are in melee? Because their range is pretty low and charging non-dedicated melee units is not a bad idea this edition due having the FLY keyword of course.

Also I did say that the Carnifex is better, didn't I? It's also to be expected. It's a unit they put a lot of focus on and it's a Codex release while we are still having only our Index units. The Carnifex basically did a 180° compared to its Index version.

3 Stealth Suits with BC+ATS do 2 wounds against MEQ and a Carnifex with 4 devourer does 3.56 wounds against MEQ. Both after saves.

And no clue where you got your percentages from. A 50% chance to hit (keep in mind the -1 to-hit) and a 50% chance to wound (S4 T4) is not a 10.89% chance in my book.
Even if I go with hitting on 3s and using only a 3+ armor it's an average of 0.111111 wounds from a single Bolter shot (0.0833 when applying the to-hit modifier and 0.04167 when in cover which is significantly easier for them than it is for the Carnifex).

So since I can't really compare your numbers with mine I won't say anything in that regard but I suggest checking your numbers again.


I said heavy bolter so Str 5 ap-1 50% to hit 66% to wound (33%) 3+ save in cover (33% fail) is 10.89%
Or 16.5% out of cover.

You are correct about wounds vs MEQ for devourers I think I accidentally calculated chance to pass instead of chance to fail accidentally giving SM flak armour :D

I agree bolters have less of a gap than str5/6 weapons but let's be honest str5 + is what I'm shooting at a fex, ideally str8+ but we don't have access to that much of it and most if not all str8+ weapons are multiple damage which is bad news for stealth suits again, though D6 is much worse for the fex.
And stealth suits do have saviour Protocol where tyranids don't get anything close( which is good because that would be insane)

Ah Heavy Bolter. Right, I missed that. My bad. :D
though then I'd go all the way and take Assault Cannons (not that it would make a difference in this case since the Carnifex has T7 anyway :P ).

However the Carnifex really is more of a short ranged tank that can do stuff in melee as well than heavy infantry so I'm not sure if comparing how both do against anti-infantry weapons is all that useful. I'd definitely shoot with anti-tank weaponry at the Carnifex if I'd want to kill them and with anti-infantry weapons at the Stealth Suits.
Saviour Protocols is something I'd rather count towards Drones being good and not for the Suits themselves (hence why they are so expensive for their output but excel at survivability currently) but yeah it's definitely something to keep in mind.
Overall I don't think they are that well to compare in durability if I think about it. One is more of a tank and the other is more of pretty durable infantry.

Nymphomanius
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#715 » Nov 16 2017 08:16

Panzer wrote:Overall I don't think they are that well to compare in durability if I think about it. One is more of a tank and the other is more of pretty durable infantry.


True but if you compare it to a ghostkeel or Riptide I might have to have a little cry :sad:

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Panzer
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#716 » Nov 16 2017 08:27

Nymphomanius wrote:
Panzer wrote:Overall I don't think they are that well to compare in durability if I think about it. One is more of a tank and the other is more of pretty durable infantry.


True but if you compare it to a ghostkeel or Riptide I might have to have a little cry :sad:

Ghostkeel is still okay-ish but Riptide...yeah lets ignore he exists until we get the Codex. :D

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Beerson
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#717 » Nov 16 2017 10:19

Panzer wrote:Ghostkeel is still okay-ish but Riptide...yeah lets ignore he exists until we get the Codex. :D

well that's pretty much what everybody is doing :D riptide only exists as a base for Y'vahra variant these days

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ErSe0831
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#718 » Nov 16 2017 01:06

I might be getting my english words all jumbled up after work... Is this flowchart trying to tell me I will still be able to use CIBs on crisis, even if they get removed in the codex?

Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comm ... codex_use/

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QimRas
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#719 » Nov 16 2017 01:25

ErSe0831 wrote:I might be getting my english words all jumbled up after work... Is this flowchart trying to tell me I will still be able to use CIBs on crisis, even if they get removed in the codex?

Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comm ... codex_use/


Reeeeeally curious where that commentary came from. It has a page number, so I feel like it might be Chapter Approved, but not sure.

If that is the case, they are really opening up a lot of potential issues and shinaniganry. It would mean that books stack on top of each other as opposed to replace each other. That is going to be a nightmare. I will be happy to see Autarchs keep their wargear, though.

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Panzer
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#720 » Nov 16 2017 01:34

ErSe0831 wrote:I might be getting my english words all jumbled up after work... Is this flowchart trying to tell me I will still be able to use CIBs on crisis, even if they get removed in the codex?

Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comm ... codex_use/


This might be from the Chapter Approved but with the current rules it's not the case.
GW once said that if a Datasheet didn't make it into the Codex you can use its Index version (note that it's not in any FAQ or Errata so far). Some people interpreted it as being allowed to use removed wargear options as well which is something completely different and in no way supported by what GW said.


QimRas wrote:If that is the case, they are really opening up a lot of potential issues and shinaniganry. It would mean that books stack on top of each other as opposed to replace each other. That is going to be a nightmare. I will be happy to see Autarchs keep their wargear, though.

Not really. It only talks about the Index, not about any released book pre the current one.


Anyway if that page is legit I expect it to be only a temporary thing and getting removed when it gets into round two of Codex releases in a few years.


EDIT: found the source. WarCom has a new page for all the FAQs but it seems to be either buggy or overloaded so it sometimes doesn't load properly.
Here's the link: https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/

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