New Tigershark AX 1-0 Images

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Panzer
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Re: New Tigershark AX 1-0 Images

Post#19 » Oct 20 2017 06:29

I agree. They're beautiful. If they were plastic I would get them. However resin is just a pain to work with and way too expensive (in money) so I'll probably never get one of those.

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Arka0415
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Re: New Tigershark AX 1-0 Images

Post#20 » Oct 20 2017 06:52

Panzer wrote:I agree. They're beautiful. If they were plastic I would get them. However resin is just a pain to work with and way too expensive (in money) so I'll probably never get one of those.

Eh, don't think about the money! The only thing that matters is damage efficiency

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Panzer
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Re: New Tigershark AX 1-0 Images

Post#21 » Oct 20 2017 06:58

Then there's still the argument that I don't like to work with big chunks of Resin. :P

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QimRas
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Re: New Tigershark AX 1-0 Images

Post#22 » Oct 20 2017 08:08

BY the way, these suckers got a new datasheet from the Index. Seems Forgeworld decided to give us the option of CIBs instead of Burst Cannons on the wing turrets.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-c ... AX-1-0.pdf

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Panzer
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Re: New Tigershark AX 1-0 Images

Post#23 » Oct 20 2017 08:42

I somehow begin to dislike that ion weapons are always the better alternative to anything that's not super specialiced like Fusion Blaster or Flamer. Glad at least the Riptide is an exception by now. :roll:

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QimRas
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Re: New Tigershark AX 1-0 Images

Post#24 » Oct 20 2017 09:01

Panzer wrote:I somehow begin to dislike that ion weapons are always the better alternative to anything that's not super specialiced like Fusion Blaster or Flamer. Glad at least the Riptide is an exception by now. :roll:


Agreed. I think Burst weapons really need something to distinguish themselves from other weapons. We already have a huge amount of Str5 AP0 weapons.

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Arka0415
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Re: New Tigershark AX 1-0 Images

Post#25 » Oct 20 2017 06:50

QimRas wrote:BY the way, these suckers got a new datasheet from the Index. Seems Forgeworld decided to give us the option of CIBs instead of Burst Cannons on the wing turrets.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-c ... AX-1-0.pdf

And, this is the reason we can't actually field these things. 130 points for one Rail Cannon? For a weapon that has one shot and 2D6 damage? If this thing just had 10 Lascannons it'd be much better, and much cheaper. Against units with the Titanic keyword this flyer is going to be a monster, but only in those cases.

I mean, if we could put a Heavy Rail Cannon on a Hammerhead, it would still be worse than a Predator.

If we could put a Heavy Rail Cannon on a Hammerhead for free, it would get ~15% more points per wound.

(Note: And the other tank-hunter flyer, the Barracuda, gets a short-ranged Heavy Rail Rifle. For as many points as a Heavy Rail Rifle and a Railgun combined. Great. Is this a joke?)

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Panzer
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Re: New Tigershark AX 1-0 Images

Post#26 » Oct 20 2017 07:06

Well Forgeworld was never good at balancing their weapons with GW weapons. Can't say I'm surprised.

Jacket
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Re: New Tigershark AX 1-0 Images

Post#27 » Oct 21 2017 04:27

Arka0415 wrote:I absolutely love these Forgeworld flyers. They're everything Tau titan-hunters should be- not giant walkers, but strike aircraft that can swoop in, blast stuff, and fly out. Beautiful.

But, I just can't justify the price tag (in points) since they're probably not all that competitive. The Barracuda is lacks the alpha strike firepower it needs and the Tiger Shark is just frighteningly expensive...

I like both actually. If I had to choose at gunpoint only one though it would be Ta'unar. I grabbed the Tigerhshark and Barracuda Wing. This is going to be fantastic.

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StealthKnightSteg
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Re: New Tigershark AX 1-0 Images

Post#28 » Oct 23 2017 02:41

Either I'm going crazy or someone in the design/rules department smoked something wrong...

New weapon type: Macro:

Macro Weapons:
This is an additional weapon type to the five types presented in the main Warhammer 40,000
rulebook. Macro weapons are truly gigantic in proportion, often the size of armoured vehicles in their own right
in many cases. Such mighty weapons are unwieldy and only able to be mounted on the largest of war engines
such as Titans, but their power is enough to annihilate the most well-protected target and is particularly effective
against the fortifications and the largest war machines, against which their power can be fully spent.
A model armed with a Macro weapon may not fire it if it has moved previously in the turn, unless the firing unit
also has the Titanic keyword.
No Macro weapon may be used to make Overwatch attacks. When used against
units with the Titanic or Building keyword, the damage inflicted by a Macro weapon is doubled (this doubling
takes place after any randomised damage has been rolled for).


Movement of the Tiger shark: 20-75" (or 20-45" / 20-30") So there is a minimum movement, so for the Tiger Shark to use the Heavy Rail Canon then it has to be a Titan.. right?

Wrong:
Keywords: Vehicle, Fly, Tiger Shark AX-1-0

So it has an option for a weapon it can't fire.. good going FW!



Edit: Oh good it is actually me! Due to this little rule that I totally missed

Titan Hunter:
This model may fire Macro weapons even if it has moved this turn.

PeeJ
Shas'La
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Re: New Tigershark AX 1-0 Images

Post#29 » Oct 23 2017 03:12

StealthKnightSteg wrote:Edit: Oh good it is actually me! Due to this little rule that I totally missed

Titan Hunter:
This model may fire Macro weapons even if it has moved this turn.


Don't feel bad, that rule is a new addition to this PDF datasheet (and the previous FAQ). Forgeworld did in fact make the oversight you are talking about in the original index and the Tigershark was unusable at launch of 8th because of it.

Also, it is a beautiful model and mines been on pre-order since I got home from my office party Friday night. I'll be at WW in Nottingham this Saturday to collect it (and no doubt impulse buy a couple of hundred pound worth of plastic).

I may pre-order a half-ling eclair.

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Ghostly Daemon
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Re: New Tigershark AX 1-0 Images

Post#30 » Oct 23 2017 05:43

It's an absolutely gorgeous model, I think it won't get used much in my games as we very rarely have justification to use anything over power 20, but against some of the cheese-fest players at our FLGS, this could be very fun! I also totally didn't buy it purely for the Air Caste models... :D

PeeJ wrote:Also, it is a beautiful model and mines been on pre-order since I got home from my office party Friday night. I'll be at WW in Nottingham this Saturday to collect it (and no doubt impulse buy a couple of hundred pound worth of plastic).


You and me both, road trips are exciting times!
:fear: :fear: :fear: :fear: :fear: :evil:

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Bloodknife92
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Re: New Tigershark AX 1-0 Images

Post#31 » Oct 25 2017 06:08

I dunno about everyone else, but this model looks insanely destructive :D
Lets compare it to something of a similar cost right now.

I give you, the Stormsurge, equipped with Pulse Driver Cannon, Cluster Rocket System, 4 Destroyer Missiles, 2 Burst Cannons, 2 Smart Missile Systems, Early Warning Override, Shield Generator and Velocity Tracker(This is how I plan to equip my own 'surge)
Lets look at primary weapons only, for now, and assume we're shooting at, oh I don't know, an Imperial Knight.
Your 'surge gets to fire its PDC and gets D3 attacks. For sake of averages, we roll a 4(2 on D3). You roll to hit with your two hits and your 'surge is Anchored Down, so you need 3+ to hit. You hit with both shots, and now you need to wound. The strength of the weapon is two higher than the toughness of an IK, so it's 3+ again to wound. You pass both again, for argument's sake, it failed its armour saves, and now you get to roll 2D6 damage. You roll 7, the highest common roll on 2D6. You've just dealt 7 damage with your model that cost 4 less than 500 points.

Now we move onto the Tiger Shark AX-1-0. This model costs 87 points more than the 'surge, and if you're still only using its main weapons, and shooting at the same target, you're rolling 2+ to hit with two shots. You hit, now it's more than double the toughness of the IK, so you're also rolling 2+ to wound. Again, you pass, both tests having a 16.5% better chance to pass. The Knight failed any saves it had, and now you're rolling to damage it. You'd normally roll 2D6x2, but because the IK is <Titanic> you get to double that after rolling to deal damage. You roll 14, the average on 2D6 multiplied by two. You now double that. You've just dealt 14 wounds to a normal model, and 28 wounds to the poor Imperial Knight, for only 87 points more. The Imperial Knight model has been destroyed so badly on turn 1 that it literally combusts and Forge World suffers a completely unexplainable law suit because their seemingly dangerless resin product exploded, putting lives at risk :D
The days of goodly English is went
Ziss old dog still has a few tricks!

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Maxwell
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Re: New Tigershark AX 1-0 Images

Post#32 » Oct 25 2017 07:46

Odd that it winds up shooting macro at BS but heavy at -1...

Jacket
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Re: New Tigershark AX 1-0 Images

Post#33 » Oct 25 2017 08:00

Bloodknife92 wrote:I dunno about everyone else, but this model looks insanely destructive :D
Lets compare it to something of a similar cost right now.

I give you, the Stormsurge, equipped with Pulse Driver Cannon, Cluster Rocket System, 4 Destroyer Missiles, 2 Burst Cannons, 2 Smart Missile Systems, Early Warning Override, Shield Generator and Velocity Tracker(This is how I plan to equip my own 'surge)
Lets look at primary weapons only, for now, and assume we're shooting at, oh I don't know, an Imperial Knight.
Your 'surge gets to fire its PDC and gets D3 attacks. For sake of averages, we roll a 4(2 on D3). You roll to hit with your two hits and your 'surge is Anchored Down, so you need 3+ to hit. You hit with both shots, and now you need to wound. The strength of the weapon is two higher than the toughness of an IK, so it's 3+ again to wound. You pass both again, for argument's sake, it failed its armour saves, and now you get to roll 2D6 damage. You roll 7, the highest common roll on 2D6. You've just dealt 7 damage with your model that cost 4 less than 500 points.

Now we move onto the Tiger Shark AX-1-0. This model costs 87 points more than the 'surge, and if you're still only using its main weapons, and shooting at the same target, you're rolling 2+ to hit with two shots. You hit, now it's more than double the toughness of the IK, so you're also rolling 2+ to wound. Again, you pass, both tests having a 16.5% better chance to pass. The Knight failed any saves it had, and now you're rolling to damage it. You'd normally roll 2D6x2, but because the IK is <Titanic> you get to double that after rolling to deal damage. You roll 14, the average on 2D6 multiplied by two. You now double that. You've just dealt 14 wounds to a normal model, and 28 wounds to the poor Imperial Knight, for only 87 points more. The Imperial Knight model has been destroyed so badly on turn 1 that it literally combusts and Forge World suffers a completely unexplainable law suit because their seemingly dangerless resin product exploded, putting lives at risk :D

Yeap it puts the Ta'unar to shame. Ta'unar's heavy rail cannon needs some sort of boost to make it viable over the Tigershark since its only got one. Not only that but getting rid of its cluster rockets as a second weapon to make it a lame defensive attack only thing is stupid.

Ta'unar dies too easily even with drone support and doesn't put out the firepower of this thing. This thing will get in an alpha strike easy and wreck the key targets it needs.

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Panzer
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Re: New Tigershark AX 1-0 Images

Post#34 » Oct 25 2017 08:45

Maxwell wrote:Odd that it winds up shooting macro at BS but heavy at -1...

Because it was only a hotfix when they noticed without that rule it couldn't shoot its macro weapon at all and FW didn't bother to put any more thought into it after that hotfix.
If you ask me, macro is just aids waiting to happen. D weapons all over again. It makes killing titans easy, so titans will have to become better to stand a chance against macro weapons so other weapons won't even have a chance to realistically kill titans anymore. Not sure why FW always has to introduce something out of the system like that instead of just writing rules for strong weapons.

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Bloodknife92
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Re: New Tigershark AX 1-0 Images

Post#35 » Oct 25 2017 08:57

Panzer wrote:
Maxwell wrote:Odd that it winds up shooting macro at BS but heavy at -1...

Because it was only a hotfix when they noticed without that rule it couldn't shoot its macro weapon at all and FW didn't bother to put any more thought into it after that hotfix.
If you ask me, macro is just aids waiting to happen. D weapons all over again. It makes killing titans easy, so titans will have to become better to stand a chance against macro weapons so other weapons won't even have a chance to realistically kill titans anymore. Not sure why FW always has to introduce something out of the system like that instead of just writing rules for strong weapons.

I totally agree with you. The loss of D has changed nothing, because they just replaced it with Macro instead. Forge World just love making things that can destroy entire armies or entire titans in a single turn. I personally think that even some of the units/models in the GW range need to be bought back a level even more than they have, but Forge World is for those who love having their battles end on turn 2 because of how insanely powerful things are.
The days of goodly English is went
Ziss old dog still has a few tricks!

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Arka0415
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Re: New Tigershark AX 1-0 Images

Post#36 » Oct 26 2017 07:09

Jacket wrote:Yeap it puts the Ta'unar to shame. Ta'unar's heavy rail cannon needs some sort of boost to make it viable over the Tigershark since its only got one. Not only that but getting rid of its cluster rockets as a second weapon to make it a lame defensive attack only thing is stupid.

Ta'unar dies too easily even with drone support and doesn't put out the firepower of this thing. This thing will get in an alpha strike easy and wreck the key targets it needs.

One-shot weapons are never good- take multi-shot weapons wherever you can, especially on models like the Tau'nar where they're basically your whole army.





Bloodknife92 wrote:I dunno about everyone else, but this model looks insanely destructive :D
Lets compare it to something of a similar cost right now.

Unless you're firing at a Titanic unit, I just don't think it is. With the ideal loadout it's 629 points. It has a 5/6 chance to hit, a 5/6 chance to wound, and the enemy may have Invulnerable saves. Remember the chance to roll a 1 with four dice is pretty high. With only two shots, you're looking at 1.4 wounds, or 0.9 wounds if the enemy has an invulnerable save. If we shoot a Land Raider, a model which has no invulnerable save, we're looking at a statistical 9.8 damage. Decent, but nothing life-changing. If we shoot a model that does have an invulnerable save, like a Y'vahra, we're looking at 6.3 damage. That's not decent, that's pitiful. An Imperial Knight has a 5+ invulnerable save, even though you're doubling your damage you're still looking at a statistical 12.6 wounds. A solid hit, but by no means fatal. Remember that the enemy can re-roll at least one invulnerable save with a Command Point, and they will.

Now, if this mighty Heavy Rail Cannon was cheaper and, say, available on the Barracuda or on a Hammerhead, it could be viable. But on a 629-point chassis? :sad:

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