Why are the Krootox and Shapers uncompetitive?

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Pottsey
Shas'Saal
Posts: 44

Why are the Krootox and Shapers uncompetitive?

Post#1 » Aug 24 2017 05:56

I have come across a number of Tau players that say the Krootox and Shapers are uncompetitive but I am not seeing why. They seem to full the 30”+ range S7 role nicely for relatively little pts and combined with a sharper ,wound most targets on 3+ and reroll 1’s. 102pts for 9 wounds and a decent rapid fire weapon doesn’t seem too bad to me even with the poor amour save.

Plus I use the marksmen and shaper to fill the Elites up cheaply for the Brigade 9 CP points. So what am I missing, why do so many Tau players not use these or say they are uncompetitive?

The reason I bring this up is I have a 2v1 game coming up and my roll is to sit in the deployment shooting while the other persons assaults. The Krootox seems to be the best way to put out S7 long range shots. Anything better?

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3545

Re: Why are the Krootox and Shapers uncompetitive?

Post#2 » Aug 24 2017 06:05

Shaper because they don't do anything. They buff a unit that can't do anything except for taking up space. Kroot are already better when getting replaced with Drones or Pathfinder depending on what exactly you want them for.
Buffing them won't make them good enough to warrant taking them over the other two.

Krootox are neat but die to a stiff breeze without having a unit to hide in like Ion Rifle Pathfinder could for example.

Pottsey
Shas'Saal
Posts: 44

Re: Why are the Krootox and Shapers uncompetitive?

Post#3 » Aug 24 2017 06:20

Panzer wrote:Shaper because they don't do anything. They buff a unit that can't do anything except for taking up space. Kroot are already better when getting replaced with Drones or Pathfinder depending on what exactly you want them for.
Buffing them won't make them good enough to warrant taking them over the other two.

Krootox are neat but die to a stiff breeze without having a unit to hide in like Ion Rifle Pathfinder could for example.

Don't do anything? Not got my index on me, I thought Shapers also boost Hounds and Krootox? I agree basic Kroot are not worth taking but with Krootox they do something useful don't they?. Hounds I use as a cheap halo to stop deepstrikes being close to my key units.

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Vector Strike
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 955

Re: Why are the Krootox and Shapers uncompetitive?

Post#4 » Aug 24 2017 06:42

Kroot Shaper allows Kroot units to re-roll wound rolls of 1. It goes well with Krootox, but not with the others, which are certainly faster than him (Shaper doesn't possess the Vanguard redeploy).
He also lets Kroot units to use his Ld, but an Ethereal does the same and has higher Ld.

His most special rule, on the other hand, is completely useless. He needs to kill a model with his puny S3 AP0 D1 knife to let Kroot units near him forego morale tests. If you take small Kroot units, morale tests won't be a nuisance anyway...

I'd only take a Shaper if you want to field zounds of Krootoxes - nothing else.

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nic
Kroot'La
Kroot'La
Posts: 786

Re: Why are the Krootox and Shapers uncompetitive?

Post#5 » Sep 04 2017 03:32

Krootox are far from terrible but nor are they the best option in the codex so with several competing options that are better overall they can not really be considered competitive. The real problem with Krootox is not their statline and points cost so much as the Cavalry type - this obstructs nearly all attempts at making them more survivable. They struggle to gain benefit from cover, cannot benefit from drone Saviour Protocols or use Tidewall fortifications. They do not even benefit from an Ethereal using Sense of Stone. The only durability they really gain is from running lots of them as solo model units but that gives away far too many kill points in most competitive environments and hinders the ability to dictate who goes first.

In my experience a lot of the above applies far less in smaller games, Krootox do better in lower points level games and I would consider them possibly competitive in Combat Patrol tournaments.

A lot of the issues with Kroot Shapers stem from the problems of Krootox - which are their most obvious thing to buff. Yes you can buff up large numbers of Kroot Carnivores and this does significantly improve their shooting but in a competitive context Kroot Carnivores are going to be taken for some combination of their scout-move screening ability and Objective Secured: bolter-equivalent shooting just lacks enough impact to be worth investing more points in buffing it. Unless you are going all-kroot an Ethereal is almost always a better cheap buffing character than a Kroot Shaper; and the Cadre Fireblade tends to eclipse both if you are taking numbers of Gun Drones or Strike Teams.

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