How would you beat this Tzeentch list?

Use this area for all discussions of the "gaming" aspect of 40K/Tau.
AN'SHI
Shas
Posts: 86

How would you beat this Tzeentch list?

Post#1 » Oct 12 2017 09:12

i just played a 2k game against the below and basically got crushed. what cam tau do against such reckless hate. i cant really think of a way to win barring using an all drone army which probably wont be good against otger armies thoughts?

Changeling
Herald on disc
3 Tzeentch Daemon princes
4 Malefic Lords

6 x 30 horrors (1 blue + 29 brims)

8 x Flamers

User avatar
Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3083

Re: how do you beat this with tau

Post#2 » Oct 12 2017 11:03

There are armies we just can't really beat atm due our rather weak Index.
Gun-Drone and Commander spam lists are pretty much the strongest we can bring for competetive matches.

User avatar
Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 98

Re: how do you beat this with tau

Post#3 » Oct 13 2017 01:45

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (T'au Empire) [35 PL, 610pts] ++

+ HQ +

Darkstrider [3 PL, 45pts]

Ethereal [2 PL, 45pts]: Honour blade

+ Troops +

Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Kroot

Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Kroot

Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Kroot

Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Kroot

Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Kroot

Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Kroot

+ Fast Attack +

Pathfinder Team [6 PL, 80pts]
. 9x Pathfinder: 9x Markerlight
. Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight

Pathfinder Team [6 PL, 80pts]
. 9x Pathfinder: 9x Markerlight
. Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (T'au Empire) [34 PL, 610pts] ++

+ HQ +

Ethereal [2 PL, 45pts]: Honour blade

Ethereal [2 PL, 45pts]: Honour blade

+ Troops +

Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Kroot

Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Kroot

Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Kroot

Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Kroot

Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Kroot

Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Kroot

+ Fast Attack +

Pathfinder Team [6 PL, 80pts]
. 9x Pathfinder: 9x Markerlight
. Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight

Pathfinder Team [6 PL, 80pts]
. 9x Pathfinder: 9x Markerlight
. Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (T'au Empire) [44 PL, 780pts] ++

+ HQ +

Aun'Va [4 PL, 75pts]: Aun'Va, Ethereal Guard, Ethereal Guard

Ethereal [3 PL, 53pts]: Honour blade, MV4 Shield Drone

+ Troops +

Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Kroot

Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Kroot

Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Kroot

Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Kroot

Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Kroot

Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Kroot

+ Elites +

Firesight Marksman [1 PL, 24pts]: Markerlight

+ Fast Attack +

Pathfinder Team [6 PL, 80pts]
. 9x Pathfinder: 9x Markerlight
. Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight

Pathfinder Team [6 PL, 80pts]
. 9x Pathfinder: 9x Markerlight
. Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight

+ Heavy Support +

MV71 Sniper Drones [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x MV71 Sniper Drone

MV71 Sniper Drones [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x MV71 Sniper Drone

++ Total: [113 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe



Just throw money at your problem. Lots and lots of money, lots and lots of Kroot(specifically 180 kroot 60 path finders). Drown them in the blood of the kroot they slaughter lol.
Kroot can soak up wounds cheaply.
Ethereals would make the kroot efficient in damage versus the enemy target, while making them resilient to spam attacks. Path finders provide decent greater good coverage. Markerlights would help kroot light up their targets. It's basically trying to outspan a spam army more efficently. Sniper drones are to harrass daemon Prince but can be replaced I would try to wittle the blobs to the point battleshock could solve the rest.

Sun sharks pulse bombs may also help

Nymphomanius
Shas
Posts: 120
Contact:

Re: how do you beat this with tau

Post#4 » Oct 13 2017 04:21

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [46 PL, 714pts] ++

+ HQ +

Cadre Fireblade [3 PL, 58pts]: Markerlight, 2x MV1 Gun Drone

Commander [7 PL, 176pts]: 4x Fusion blaster, 2x MV1 Gun Drone

+ Fast Attack +

Tactical Drones [6 PL, 80pts]: 10x MV1 Gun Drone

Tactical Drones [6 PL, 80pts]: 10x MV1 Gun Drone

Tactical Drones [6 PL, 80pts]: 10x MV1 Gun Drone

Tactical Drones [6 PL, 80pts]: 10x MV1 Gun Drone

Tactical Drones [6 PL, 80pts]: 10x MV1 Gun Drone

Tactical Drones [6 PL, 80pts]: 10x MV1 Gun Drone

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [46 PL, 714pts] ++

+ HQ +

Cadre Fireblade [3 PL, 58pts]: Markerlight, 2x MV1 Gun Drone

Commander [7 PL, 176pts]: 4x Fusion blaster, 2x MV1 Gun Drone

+ Fast Attack +

Tactical Drones [6 PL, 80pts]: 10x MV1 Gun Drone

Tactical Drones [6 PL, 80pts]: 10x MV1 Gun Drone

Tactical Drones [6 PL, 80pts]: 10x MV1 Gun Drone

Tactical Drones [6 PL, 80pts]: 10x MV1 Gun Drone

Tactical Drones [6 PL, 80pts]: 10x MV1 Gun Drone

Tactical Drones [6 PL, 80pts]: 10x MV1 Gun Drone

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [41 PL, 572pts] ++

+ HQ +

Cadre Fireblade [2 PL, 42pts]: Markerlight

Ethereal [3 PL, 50pts]: Honour blade, Hover Drone

+ Fast Attack +

Tactical Drones [6 PL, 80pts]: 10x MV1 Gun Drone

Tactical Drones [6 PL, 80pts]: 10x MV1 Gun Drone

Tactical Drones [6 PL, 80pts]: 10x MV1 Gun Drone

Tactical Drones [6 PL, 80pts]: 10x MV1 Gun Drone

Tactical Drones [6 PL, 80pts]: 10x MV1 Gun Drone

Tactical Drones [6 PL, 80pts]: 10x MV1 Gun Drone

++ Total: [133 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

If you're going to go spam drone spam 180 gun drones 3 fireblade 2 QFC and an ethereal without fireblades its720 shots a turn even hitting on 5's will force enough saves of those brimstone horrors to cause a nightmare for your opponent

User avatar
Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 98

Re: how do you beat this with tau

Post#5 » Oct 13 2017 04:45

Giving up a commander weapon for a drone controller is probably worth it here. Add inspring warlord trait to ethereal to buff itself to LD 10 it can pass on to drones is also good

fraction64
Shas'Saal
Posts: 191

Re: how do you beat this with tau

Post#6 » Oct 13 2017 05:26

Will mention that the changling imposes a -1 to hit penalty when targeting Tzeentch daemons within 9" of it I believe. Drones won't do so well against that.

User avatar
Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 98

Re: how do you beat this with tau

Post#7 » Oct 13 2017 05:47

fraction64 wrote:Will mention that the changling imposes a -1 to hit penalty when targeting Tzeentch daemons within 9" of it I believe. Drones won't do so well against that.

The kroot list has a lot of path finders. The ethereal can grant reroll. Making pathfinders lit up the deamons easier with ML . Once 5 lights are on you cancel that effect

Maybe large 9 crisis teams with flame throwers and stealth suit homing beacons might work. Using the homing beacon to get the crisis suit really close. Using the accompanying drones to drop in close combat to prevent shooting on secondary daemon units for a turn?
Last edited by Lostroninsoul on Oct 13 2017 10:06, edited 1 time in total.

Nymphomanius
Shas
Posts: 120
Contact:

Re: how do you beat this with tau

Post#8 » Oct 13 2017 06:36

Also remember that in CC you have the advantage for once it takes 36 attacks from brimstone horrors to kill 1 drone due to their mighty str1

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1518

Re: how do you beat this with tau

Post#9 » Oct 13 2017 10:42

Panzer wrote:There are armies we just can't really beat atm due our rather weak Index.
Gun-Drone and Commander spam lists are pretty much the strongest we can bring for competetive matches.

I'm going to agree with Panzer here. That list is nasty- sure, there are ways to tailor a list that could try and put a dent in that insane Horror spam, but why bother? It's unlikely that you'll play against that player too much, and it's not really worth the effort to buy new models to tackle one overpowered list. Wait for the new Tau Codex to drop, then we'll talk! :D

User avatar
nic
Kroot'La
Kroot'La
Posts: 763

Re: how do you beat this with tau

Post#10 » Oct 14 2017 02:41

AN'SHI wrote:i just played a 2k game against the below and basically got crushed. what cam tau do against such reckless hate. i cant really think of a way to win barring using an all drone army which probably wont be good against otger armies thoughts?

Changeling
Herald on disc
3 Tzeentch Daemon princes
4 Malefic Lords

6 x 30 horrors (1 blue + 29 brims)

8 x Flamers


I think you can either win that match-up on the scenario or not at all. So it really depends on the tournament scenario - I presume this is tournament play/practice because that list has no real place outside of tournaments.

To survive long enough to win on the scenario you need numbers of bodies, preferably mobile bodies so you can out-maneuver and outscore your opponent in the middle-game. As long as smite spam is popular I think Kroot Hounds will be one of our most useful units. Do not play entirely defensively with the Hounds, they are more than capable of holding their own against Brimstone Horrors so get them stuck in to lock those big blobs in place and force all the Daemon characters to either sit on the periphery smiting Hounds or come out from behind their screen where you can try to shoot them.

Pretty awful match-up generally.

AN'SHI
Shas
Posts: 86

Re: how do you beat this with tau

Post#11 » Oct 14 2017 07:13

so basically tailor to only beat this list but against other lists i wont do so to well sigh.... I hope the new dex comes out soon and gives some answers.

yes this is a pretty nasty tournmement list playing itc rules I ran sniper drones 2 units of 9 and let me say that if i didnt have them in the list it would of been gg from the get go.

this is what i ran

HQ 1040
Commander (176) - fusion x4 shield drones x2
Commander (176) - fusion x4 shield drones x2
Commander coldstar (166) - missile pod, high yield burst cannon, ats, shield generator, shield drones x2 - leader with 6+ fnp
Commander (154) - cib x3 ats shield drones x2
Commander (154) - cib x3 ats shield drones x2
Commander (169) - mp x3 drone controller x2 shield drones
Ethereal (45)

Elite 418
Xv9 (130) - double barrel burst cannon, drone controller, x4 gun drones
Stealth suite x3 (132), burst cannon x3, homing beacon, gun drones x2, multi tracker x3
Stealth suit x3 (132) - burst cannon x3, homing beacon gun drones x2, multi tracker x3
fire sight (24) marker light

Fast 212
Pathfinder x7 (68) - ion rifle x3, marker lights x4
Pathfinder x7 (68) - ion rifle x3, marker lights x4
Pathfinders x8 (76) - ion rifle x3, marker lights x5

heavy 324
sniper drone (162) x9
sniper drone (162) x9

6 battle points
Supreme command detachment
Vanguard detachment
Outrider detachment

User avatar
nic
Kroot'La
Kroot'La
Posts: 763

Re: how do you beat this with tau

Post#12 » Oct 14 2017 09:18

I would not call it tailoring if you decide adapt your list to a smite-heavy meta - the resulting list would maybe have enough durability to win out on the mission. One of the key ways to mitigate smite is to put a larger number of cheap wounds on the table - points per wound becomes a useful metric of a durable list against Smite.

Even quite a small scale change such as swapping out one commander for units of Kroot Hounds might give you a fighting chance. A QFC swapped for Hounds takes out 6 wounds from your list and adds in 40 disposable wounds to eat Smite for a couple of turns - or to block assaults from Daemon Princes. As this is ITC I would tend to take them in small units as that really reduces the efficiency of Smite or single model assault and there is not so much kill point penalty for doing so in ITC scenarios. At 4 points per wound Kroot Hounds are as durable as Tau get against Smite.

I have not been persuaded of the merits of sniper drones yet but if they can pick off the Changeling while the return smites are still just killing cheap Hounds you might be in with a chance of pinning your opponent back and preventing them from out-scoring you.

User avatar
Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3083

Re: how do you beat this with tau

Post#13 » Oct 14 2017 09:21

Well it's a 348p investment for those few S5 AP0 shots.
If you think you need them then keep them, however I don't think they are worth it at all. Could get more Commander or 40 more Gun Drones for those points. Or even one of our overpriced units like Hammerhead or a Broadside would be a better investment imo.

User avatar
Tael
Fio'O
Fio'O
Posts: 5772
Contact:

Re: How would you beat this Tzeentch list?

Post#14 » Oct 16 2017 06:10

Edited title to better reflect and indicate content :D

Return to “General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests