Start Collecting box and 4th ed. conversion advice

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Beerson
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Start Collecting box and 4th ed. conversion advice

Post#1 » Oct 22 2017 02:02

Hey fellow T'au commanders, I've recently got back into 40k to dust off my old semi-painted 4th edition Battleforce box, buying the new Start collecting box to get some more models (mainly drones, but that was huge disappointment) and I need some advice

first off, there seems to be 3 crisis suit variants in the box, and this is kind of bugging my mind, I get that there are 3 base models, 1 iridium conversion, but I don't fully understand the bodyguard thing, looking at the models it would seem this is supposed to be 2 bodyguards and one commander setup, but If that would be the case people would be talking about that, on the other hand having 3 bodyguards seems weird to me, especially as only one of them gets to look the part, anyone can clarify this to me?
also any point of building bodyguards in the first place?

secondly, I have two old XV8 variants, the optional suit/commander that came with the battleforce and an old Broadside, could you give me some input on how to convert them to fit more with the new models? I thought about using spare XV8 pieces for the conversion, but though everyone says they are bigger and beefier (or so it seems), the pieces look pretty much the same as the old ones with a bit more detail
btw. if anyone could share detailed shot of commander/coldstar pieces on or fresh out of sprue for measure, it would help a lot

lastly, any idea how to get gun drones at reasonable price (except ebay)? Unless the codex changes them in big way, I plan to roll an army focused on drones instead of infantry, and I thought that I'd get some good value by buying 8 gun drones with the Collecting box having some gun pieces from FW left for conversion, but to my huge disappointment, only 4 of the 8 drones can be assembled as gun drones, is this the same with the XV8 box? Or what other boxes offer gun drones at good value?

sorry if this was asked before, but I had really hard time finding any valid answers

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Panzer
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Re: Start Collecting box and 4th ed. conversion advice

Post#2 » Oct 22 2017 02:18

The Crisis models look differently but are basically the same. The one with more armor plates is supposed to represent the Iridium armor one but that doesn't make any sense since the fluff tells us the Iridium suit isn't any bulkier than the regular Crisis due using a special alloy instead of thicker armor plates (which is what the Broadside is).
So use the one with armor plates as Shas'Vre ,don't use it at all, collect three of them to build a unit that looks a bit tougher than regular Crisis (which is what I'm doing for my Flamer squad), or as actual Bodyguard Crisis as you assumed. ;)

The Bodyguard Crisis use the exact same model as the regular Crisis. Just a different Datasheet where all of the are Shas'Vre and have a bodyguard special rule (not really worth it thanks to Drones).

The Commander these days is the one with the Enforcer Crisis Suit. It's bigger and more detailed than the Crisis Suits you get in the Crisis box (which is part of the Start Collecting box).

The old Crisis models are a bit smaller due posing and less detailed than the new ones. I use one I got gifted as Commander after some slight conversion, but to be honest I'm looking to replace him with a newer model. It just looks odd standing beside the newer models.
To convert them some simple things you could do is adding pauldrons, cutting off the thrusters and re-attach them slightly higher (something I do with all Crisis models, even the new ones), add the knee-pad bitz from the Crisis box and/or using other bitz as head. And giving them the bigger bases of course.

I think the Start Collecting box is pretty much the cheapest source of Drones unless you find a really good deal on ebay. :D
Yes it's the same with the XV8 box. The Start Collecting box is actually 100% the same content as the Firewarrior, XV8 and Ethereal box. Just repackaged into one big box.

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Arka0415
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Re: Start Collecting box and 4th ed. conversion advice

Post#3 » Oct 22 2017 07:30

Beerson wrote:first off, there seems to be 3 crisis suit variants in the box, and this is kind of bugging my mind, I get that there are 3 base models, 1 iridium conversion

Ignore the bulky chestplate and the bulky legs (or use them in conversions, your call), and you should have enough parts for three standard XV8s. There are loads of extra options in the set (like the unique head, kneepads, etc), so once you cut out the parts, set them aside and find the parts that, for each, you have a matching set of three of. These are the parts for the ordinary XV8s.

Beerson wrote:secondly, I have two old XV8 variants, the optional suit/commander that came with the battleforce and an old Broadside, could you give me some input on how to convert them to fit more with the new models?

Sadly, the new and old XV8 sets aren't very compatible, and the new and old Broadside sets are not compatible at all. Feel free to use the old XV8s as XV8s, and the new XV8s as Commanders if you like. Or, just mix new and old XV8s in the same army- no one will mind! Maybe some of your pilots prefer the antique suits?

Beerson wrote:I thought about using spare XV8 pieces for the conversion, but though everyone says they are bigger and beefier (or so it seems), the pieces look pretty much the same as the old ones with a bit more detail
btw. if anyone could share detailed shot of commander/coldstar pieces on or fresh out of sprue for measure, it would help a lot

The new suits aren't really bigger, but they are wider. You'll get a similarly-sized suit with a bulkier, linebacker-esque stance. The parts are compatible, but the old ones will have markedly less detail.

Coldstar/Commander parts, on the other hand, are very different- those suits are much bigger than XV8s.

Beerson wrote:lastly, any idea how to get gun drones at reasonable price (except ebay)? Unless the codex changes them in big way, I plan to roll an army focused on drones instead of infantry, and I thought that I'd get some good value by buying 8 gun drones with the Collecting box having some gun pieces from FW left for conversion

eBay is the best place for that, however, you might want to hold off on that idea. The new codex will likely be released within 5-6 months, and Gun Drones might change. For the time being, I wouldn't spend money on "experimental" army setups since there might be big changes just down the road.

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Beerson
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Re: Start Collecting box and 4th ed. conversion advice

Post#4 » Oct 24 2017 01:31

hmm, now I'm thinking I will turn the 3 suits (or two and an old one) into old broadsides, given that I want to replace that god awful metal railguns that came with the broadside anyway so why not make 3 sets while I'm at it, 3 broadsides is also pretty decent thing to have for just about any army list, better then 3 crisis anyway

on the commander, I am thinking about recreating the model by just slapping lots of green/brown stuff over it, either make it match the new ones at least in size, or do something unique with it, maybe making it look a bit like Gardes suits from Knights of Sidonia and naming the commander

on the drones, I gave up, I am likely going to make some bluestuff molds for the guns, maybe use altered breacher guns as the template since they look cooler, also I would really like to add some sort of head/optics to it like the remora drones have (maybe just the markerlight optics piece glued under the center) so I guess I will build all or most of my standalone drones from greenstuff-brownstuff mixture as alternative models, also want to make mold based off of the drone part of the turret to make better missile drones for my broadside(s), too bad they wouldn't fit into the hammerhead sockets
maybe if they release a droneforce box or something like that I will buy that, but for now, buying drones is a no-no

also thinking about molding some shoulderpads to replace tau sept symbol with either vior'la (I will be painting white) or custom sept markings (if I will be resculpting the commander and maybe broadsides by my own design, I could as well give it a sept fluff to match), anyone knows a collection of player made sept markings or something like that so I don't invent the same thing as some else?

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Panzer
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Re: Start Collecting box and 4th ed. conversion advice

Post#5 » Oct 24 2017 03:36

Beerson wrote: 3 broadsides is also pretty decent thing to have for just about any army list, better then 3 crisis anyway

I'd like to disagree. While Crisis actually do have their uses in lists (like tripple flamer squads for example), Broadsides are just too expensive. Even more than Crisis are. Fitting 3 into your list would gimp your list heavily (500p with HRR+Plasma+no support systems / 630p with HYMP+SMS+ATS which is probably the most competetive loadout).

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Arka0415
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Re: Start Collecting box and 4th ed. conversion advice

Post#6 » Oct 24 2017 06:50

Beerson wrote:hmm, now I'm thinking I will turn the 3 suits (or two and an old one) into old broadsides, given that I want to replace that god awful metal railguns that came with the broadside anyway so why not make 3 sets while I'm at it, 3 broadsides is also pretty decent thing to have for just about any army list, better then 3 crisis anyway

I'd hold off, at least until the codex comes out. For the time being Broadsides are a very underpowered choice in our index.

Beerson wrote:on the commander, I am thinking about recreating the model by just slapping lots of green/brown stuff over it, either make it match the new ones at least in size, or do something unique with it, maybe making it look a bit like Gardes suits from Knights of Sidonia and naming the commander

This could be cool! I haven't seen many small-scale models or figures for Knights of Sidonia so it may be tricky to find parts/models that are around the same size as XV8s. Making the parts on your own may be the only option.

Beerson wrote:on the drones, I gave up, I am likely going to make some bluestuff molds for the guns, maybe use altered breacher guns as the template since they look cooler

...

maybe if they release a droneforce box or something like that I will buy that, but for now, buying drones is a no-no
I'm not sure where you're looking, but Tau Drones are all over eBay. If you take your time and recognize good deals I bet you could pick up Drones for $3/model.

Beerson wrote:also thinking about molding some shoulderpads to replace tau sept symbol with either vior'la (I will be painting white) or custom sept markings (if I will be resculpting the commander and maybe broadsides by my own design, I could as well give it a sept fluff to match), anyone knows a collection of player made sept markings or something like that so I don't invent the same thing as some else?

I've met a lot of Tau players in my life, and I've never met someone who sculpted their own sept symbols. If you make it yourself, it'll probably be original! Canon sept symbols can be found here:

Image

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Beerson
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Re: Start Collecting box and 4th ed. conversion advice

Post#7 » Oct 31 2017 10:46

It came to my mind that making my own sept could be a solution to our problem with painting sept that might get wrong stratagems etc.
Making my own I could theoreticaly say this sept is succesor of x so it has same rules as x but different faction keyword, or it might be easier to say this is really x sept painted differently.than having y sept painted and trying to pass it for x sept

by the way I hear the bases were updated for many of our models since 4th, is there any list that might help me choose right base diameters for given model when ordering bases?

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Arka0415
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Re: Start Collecting box and 4th ed. conversion advice

Post#8 » Oct 31 2017 06:40

Beerson wrote:It came to my mind that making my own sept could be a solution to our problem with painting sept that might get wrong stratagems etc.
Making my own I could theoreticaly say this sept is succesor of x so it has same rules as x but different faction keyword, or it might be easier to say this is really x sept painted differently.than having y sept painted and trying to pass it for x sept

You can totally do that!

Beerson wrote:by the way I hear the bases were updated for many of our models since 4th, is there any list that might help me choose right base diameters for given model when ordering bases?

Only a few have changed. Stealthsuits now have 32mm bases (up from 25mm) and XV8s have 50mm bases (up from 40mm). The Broadside also has a large base now, but that's only because it's become a large model.

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Panzer
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Re: Start Collecting box and 4th ed. conversion advice

Post#9 » Oct 31 2017 07:11

Beerson wrote:It came to my mind that making my own sept could be a solution to our problem with painting sept that might get wrong stratagems etc.
Making my own I could theoreticaly say this sept is succesor of x so it has same rules as x but different faction keyword, or it might be easier to say this is really x sept painted differently.than having y sept painted and trying to pass it for x sept

Definitely an option. It has pros and cons.
Pros would be that you are free to use whatever rules you want without it becoming unfluffy and that GW can't screw with your Septs fluff by releasing their own official fluff for it.
Con would be that your Sept will never get mentioned in official fluff ever and will always only be part of your own personal version of the 40k universe (unless someone decides to include your Sept in their fanfic with your agreement of course).

Another thing you could do is to take one of the minor Septs that are unlikely to get their own Sept rules. That way you can still use whatever Sept rule you think fits best while it will still be part of the official fluff. ;)

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StealthKnightSteg
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Re: Start Collecting box and 4th ed. conversion advice

Post#10 » Nov 01 2017 05:08

also take into account that if you want several detachment with each their sept rulings that you have to make sure they are different per detachment (base coloring / marking should suffice)

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Beerson
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Re: Start Collecting box and 4th ed. conversion advice

Post#11 » Nov 01 2017 09:10

Arka0415 wrote:Only a few have changed. Stealthsuits now have 32mm bases (up from 25mm) and XV8s have 50mm bases (up from 40mm). The Broadside also has a large base now, but that's only because it's become a large model.


thank's, what about the commanders, do they use same base as xv8 or bigger one?

Panzer wrote:Con would be that your Sept will never get mentioned in official fluff ever and will always only be part of your own personal version of the 40k universe (unless someone decides to include your Sept in their fanfic with your agreement of course).

Another thing you could do is to take one of the minor Septs that are unlikely to get their own Sept rules. That way you can still use whatever Sept rule you think fits best while it will still be part of the official fluff. ;)


I don't mind not having my sept in other ppl's fluff that much, I'll do my fluff on it when I stop being so damn lazy (never) and then whatever happens :)

I have though about using some of the less known septs, but at that point it's very close to having my own sept, and at least I can choose my colours which is big thing for me when painting tau

StealthKnightSteg wrote:also take into account that if you want several detachment with each their sept rulings that you have to make sure they are different per detachment (base coloring / marking should suffice)


thanks, noted, gotta have to check the whole thing about detachments, didn't quite get into that part of rules yet

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Arka0415
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Re: Start Collecting box and 4th ed. conversion advice

Post#12 » Nov 01 2017 10:05

Beerson wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:Only a few have changed. Stealthsuits now have 32mm bases (up from 25mm) and XV8s have 50mm bases (up from 40mm). The Broadside also has a large base now, but that's only because it's become a large model.


thank's, what about the commanders, do they use same base as xv8 or bigger one?

If it's an XV8 Commander, 50mm is okay. The Enforcer Commander comes with the proper base in the box set though.

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Beerson
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Re: Start Collecting box and 4th ed. conversion advice

Post#13 » Nov 01 2017 11:06

Arka0415 wrote:If it's an XV8 Commander, 50mm is okay. The Enforcer Commander comes with the proper base in the box set though.


ok, glad to hear that, thanks :)

Nymphomanius
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Re: Start Collecting box and 4th ed. conversion advice

Post#14 » Nov 01 2017 11:33

StealthKnightSteg wrote:also take into account that if you want several detachment with each their sept rulings that you have to make sure they are different per detachment (base coloring / marking should suffice)


Is that an official rule? Because I honestly couldn't care less about fluff that's just who I am and each if my units is painted a different colour with the only over arching theme being bright and glittery (I think I'm going to go blue and orange for the ghostkeel, but I am also contemplating black and gold make him look gangsta :D)
And I honestly thought aslong as it was recorded which units are which on the datasheet it shouldn't matter aslong as it's clear?

P.S. Not a dig or argument here I genuinely want to know if it's a rule

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Panzer
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Re: Start Collecting box and 4th ed. conversion advice

Post#15 » Nov 01 2017 11:40

Nymphomanius wrote:
StealthKnightSteg wrote:also take into account that if you want several detachment with each their sept rulings that you have to make sure they are different per detachment (base coloring / marking should suffice)


Is that an official rule? Because I honestly couldn't care less about fluff that's just who I am and each if my units is painted a different colour with the only over arching theme being bright and glittery (I think I'm going to go blue and orange for the ghostkeel, but I am also contemplating black and gold make him look gangsta :D)
And I honestly thought aslong as it was recorded which units are which on the datasheet it shouldn't matter aslong as it's clear?

P.S. Not a dig or argument here I genuinely want to know if it's a rule

There are no game rules for painting your army. It just helps to tell from which detachment your units are and especially when using different Sept rules/Chapter tactics/etc. it's kinda important to see which unit belongs to which Sept/Chapter/etc since some abilities only affect units of the same Sept/Chapter/etc.

Nymphomanius
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Re: Start Collecting box and 4th ed. conversion advice

Post#16 » Nov 01 2017 12:00

Panzer wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:
StealthKnightSteg wrote:also take into account that if you want several detachment with each their sept rulings that you have to make sure they are different per detachment (base coloring / marking should suffice)


Is that an official rule? Because I honestly couldn't care less about fluff that's just who I am and each if my units is painted a different colour with the only over arching theme being bright and glittery (I think I'm going to go blue and orange for the ghostkeel, but I am also contemplating black and gold make him look gangsta :D)
And I honestly thought aslong as it was recorded which units are which on the datasheet it shouldn't matter aslong as it's clear?

P.S. Not a dig or argument here I genuinely want to know if it's a rule

There are no game rules for painting your army. It just helps to tell from which detachment your units are and especially when using different Sept rules/Chapter tactics/etc. it's kinda important to see which unit belongs to which Sept/Chapter/etc since some abilities only affect units of the same Sept/Chapter/etc.


That's fair enough I'd never aim to cause confusion but right now this only matters for us if we wanted to mix special characters like if you wanted aun va and aun shi in the same list, I'll see what Sept bonuses do what until the codex comes out, until then I'll keep using sept awsomesauce :D

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Arka0415
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Re: Start Collecting box and 4th ed. conversion advice

Post#17 » Nov 01 2017 06:23

Nymphomanius wrote:Is that an official rule? Because I honestly couldn't care less about fluff

Not an official rule, but WYSIWYG is pretty important. If you have two Fire Warriors, and one is T'au and one is Vior'la, and they're identical, that could be an issue, or at least a nuisance for your opponent.

Nymphomanius
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Re: Start Collecting box and 4th ed. conversion advice

Post#18 » Nov 01 2017 06:51

Arka0415 wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:Is that an official rule? Because I honestly couldn't care less about fluff

Not an official rule, but WYSIWYG is pretty important. If you have two Fire Warriors, and one is T'au and one is Vior'la, and they're identical, that could be an issue, or at least a nuisance for your opponent.


I wouldn't know what that means but 1 firewarriors squad is blue, one pink, and one yellow
My crisis suits are green, orange, and red
My head Commander is purple
Another pink
Another black
I haven't painted my stealth suits yet but I'm thinking blue and green
Black and gold for the ghostkeel sounds bossing
And deep blue metallic silver for the piranha

Haven't decided on pathfinders colours yet

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