New Tigershark Fighter-Bomber up for pre-order

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PeeJ
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New Tigershark Fighter-Bomber up for pre-order

Post#1 » Nov 10 2017 05:57

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-EU/sear ... 3206404541

Now on Forgeworld, ships 17-Nov and the pre-order Air Caste models are back.

Sorry if this has already been posted, I didn't see a post if there has been one.

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Rizzle
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Re: New Tigershark Fighter-Bomber up for pre-order

Post#2 » Nov 10 2017 06:30

Ooooo!

I'm so torn over this release. I wants a plane of my own! But my backlog is so vast and my playtime so small that I think I'll continue to defer for now. It's petty, but I think I might feel differently if the pre-order freebie included some of the Air Caste Pilot sculpts. I'd love another copy of the frowning pistol-wielding chap for Shadow War.

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Panzer
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Re: New Tigershark Fighter-Bomber up for pre-order

Post#3 » Nov 10 2017 06:38

I want it real bad...but I won't give FW money as long as they stick to Resin. Bummer. :D

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Beerson
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Re: New Tigershark Fighter-Bomber up for pre-order

Post#4 » Nov 10 2017 06:49

Panzer wrote:I want it real bad...but I won't give FW money as long as they stick to Resin. Bummer. :D


same here, but I guess as long as FW sticks to resin, worst case I will order it elsewhere for fraction of the price (actual value of resin model), no way I'm paying THAT money for resin fix-it-yourself

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Arka0415
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Re: New Tigershark Fighter-Bomber up for pre-order

Post#5 » Nov 10 2017 06:52

Beerson wrote:no way I'm paying THAT money for resin fix-it-yourself

This is the one thing keeping me too from getting FW stuff. Love the models, love resin (in general) but why can't they be more like Paulson and make flawless casts? So much repair work needed when it comes to FW models.

PeeJ
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Re: New Tigershark Fighter-Bomber up for pre-order

Post#6 » Nov 10 2017 07:51

Arka0415 wrote:
Beerson wrote:no way I'm paying THAT money for resin fix-it-yourself

This is the one thing keeping me too from getting FW stuff. Love the models, love resin (in general) but why can't they be more like Paulson and make flawless casts? So much repair work needed when it comes to FW models.


I suspect it depends heavily on how early in the run your cast is. My AX-1-0 is practically flawless.

The customer service from ForgeWorld is also unreal, when you do have an issue, they send out replacement parts very quickly and generally do specific re-casts for you which come out with amazing quality (in my experience).

I understand people complaining about the price, but realistically, it's not just the cost of the resin you are paying for. It's the artists time, the development of the design, software costs, rent costs, tooling costs and a premium for the IP, on top of the material cost. That's without going into other costs like advertising, support staff, rules teams etc. It all needs to be paid for by what they sell, which is these models. Plus, it is a luxury/premium item, not as mass produced/widespread as the plastics.

Yes, it's expensive and you can get recasts elsewhere cheaper, but realistically the re-casters don't have the overheads that GW/FW do. They just take a completed product and copy it. Yes you can get it ripped off elsewhere, but then you are relying on other people keeping that part of the company profitable enough for new stuff to be released, and if people are honest with themselves, you can't complain about the quality of the model sculptss, they are incredible.

The gouging is nowhere near as bad as people make out with these "Theres 3 pence of plastic in those models" rants. Thats either very niaive or just deliberately obtuse.

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Panzer
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Re: New Tigershark Fighter-Bomber up for pre-order

Post#7 » Nov 10 2017 07:59

The problem is that the moulds for Resin get used by FW until they barely resemble the original anymore which of course increases the rate of failures the longer it gets used. Also that it's expensive which can't get excused with the artists time etc. since that one is the same for plastics. Also that it sucks to work with. Also that it's quite heavy. Also that FW Resin moulds are way less detailed that GWs new plastic ranges.

The only advantage of Resin is for FW because they need to sell less models before starting to actually earn money for it and they can better produce on demand instead of having to store all the produced models somewhere constantly.

FW is simply still stuck in the "we only produce few special models for people who really want it instead of whole ranges" mentality of their past instead of producing properly in bigger capacities like GW. People would for sure buy a lot more FW stuff if it were similar to GWs new plastic in price and quality.

So I decided to speak with my wallet and simply refuse to buy FW Resin except for specialist games like BB or Necromunda if I have to and especially not big models from them. Period.
Last edited by Panzer on Nov 10 2017 08:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Arka0415
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Re: New Tigershark Fighter-Bomber up for pre-order

Post#8 » Nov 10 2017 08:00

PeeJ wrote:I suspect it depends heavily on how early in the run your cast is. My AX-1-0 is practically flawless.

The customer service from ForgeWorld is also unreal, when you do have an issue, they send out replacement parts very quickly and generally do specific re-casts for you which come out with amazing quality (in my experience).

I understand people complaining about the price, but realistically, it's not just the cost of the resin you are paying for. It's the artists time, the development of the design, software costs, rent costs, tooling costs and a premium for the IP, on top of the material cost. That's without going into other costs like advertising, support staff, rules teams etc. It all needs to be paid for by what they sell, which is these models. Plus, it is a luxury/premium item, not as mass produced/widespread as the plastics.

The price really isn't too bad. It's not a whole lot more than GW's prices and you get better, cooler stuff. I've seen a lot of posts online about wacky, warped resin though and it's made me hesitant about the casts.

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Ghostly Daemon
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Re: New Tigershark Fighter-Bomber up for pre-order

Post#9 » Nov 10 2017 08:18

Arka0415 wrote:The price really isn't too bad. It's not a whole lot more than GW's prices and you get better, cooler stuff. I've seen a lot of posts online about wacky, warped resin though and it's made me hesitant about the casts.


Just to add to this - the price isn't terrible when you consider what you're getting. I recently bought some Remora drones that were absolutely flawless minus the occasional mould line, which you'd have to deal with on plastic models anyway. I also got the new AX-1-0 and of course on a bigger model, it was much more of a pain to deal with but in reality, the quality was excellent and I'm just nitpicking :D
:fear: :fear: :fear: :fear: :fear: :evil:

PeeJ
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Re: New Tigershark Fighter-Bomber up for pre-order

Post#10 » Nov 10 2017 08:22

Panzer wrote:The problem is that the moulds for Resin get used by FW until they barely resemble the original anymore which of course increases the rate of failures the longer it gets used.


This is bad, I agree.

Panzer wrote: Also that it's expensive which can't get excused with the artists time etc. since that one is the same for plastics.


Yes, but the cost/business models for the 2 companies are entirely different. They have different artists, which they still need to pay and are separate entities still when it comes to profit/cost I believe.

Panzer wrote: Also that it sucks to work with. Also that it's quite heavy.


True.

Panzer wrote: Also that FW Resin moulds are way less detailed that GWs new plastic ranges.


I'll say that is debatable at best, and I'm being generous there. FW models just are of a different standard still and it's easy to see when they are side by side with GW models. The details are much much finer.

Panzer wrote: The only advantage of Resin is for FW because they need to sell less models before starting to actually earn money for it and they can better produce on demand instead of having to store all the produced models somewhere constantly.

FW is simply still stuck in the "we only produce few special models for people who really want it instead of whole ranges" mentality of their past instead of producing properly in bigger capacities like GW. People would for sure buy a lot more FW stuff if it were similar to GWs new plastic in price and quality.


No, this is not just them being stubborn, it is their business model, and one that is clearly succesful for them. GW/FW are not in the habbit of just throwing potential money away. If they have evidence that they can make money from a product (i.e. sell enough of it in platic to warrant the tooling and stockist costs) then they port it over to plastic; See the Skyray, Bainblade and 30K marines.

Panzer wrote: So I decided to speak with my wallet and simply refuse to buy FW Resin except for specialist games like BB or Necromunda if I have to and especially not big models from them. Period.


That is absolutely fine, if you don't want to buy FW stuff then I have no issues with that. But people trying to explain away getting knock-offs from China are just lying to themselves. If the model is good enough that you want it, pay the money to the company that put in the R&D/support costs to produce it. Not some guy in China selling knockoff re-casts that has absolutely no production costs and likely is taking a much bigger profit than FW because of it.
Last edited by PeeJ on Nov 10 2017 08:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Arka0415
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Re: New Tigershark Fighter-Bomber up for pre-order

Post#11 » Nov 10 2017 08:27

PeeJ wrote:I'll say that is debatable at best, and I'm being generous there. FW models just are of a different standard still and it's easy to see when they are side by side with GW models. The details are much much finer.

Not with my painting skills! I'm sure I could obscure those finer details right up for you.

PeeJ wrote:That is absolutely fine, if you don't want to buy FW stuff then I have no issues with that. But people trying to explain away getting knock-offs from China are just lying to themselves. If the model is good enough that you want it, pay the money to the company that put in the R&D/support costs to produce it. Not some guy in China selling knockoff re-casts that has absolutely not production costs and likely is taking a much bigger profit that FW because of it.

This is something we can't reiterate enough. Those companies are absolutely a stain on the hobby.

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Panzer
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Re: New Tigershark Fighter-Bomber up for pre-order

Post#12 » Nov 10 2017 08:56

PeeJ wrote:No, this is not just them being stubborn, it is their business model, and one that is clearly succesful for them.

Those two things are not mutually exclusive to eachother. :D

PeeJ wrote:
Panzer wrote: So I decided to speak with my wallet and simply refuse to buy FW Resin except for specialist games like BB or Necromunda if I have to and especially not big models from them. Period.


That is absolutely fine, if you don't want to buy FW stuff then I have no issues with that. But people trying to explain away getting knock-offs from China are just lying to themselves. If the model is good enough that you want it, pay the money to the company that put in the R&D/support costs to produce it. Not some guy in China selling knockoff re-casts that has absolutely no production costs and likely is taking a much bigger profit than FW because of it.

Yeah not gonna buy chinacast stuff. I've also never seen chinacast for a decent price that has the same level of detail as the FW stuff.
Quite ridiculous that people search for a cheaper way to get those models and in return accept less detailed models if you ask me.

And yes while FW Resin is quite detailed...I think the new plastic ranges of GW are better. They really improved a lot. ;)

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Kakapo42
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Re: New Tigershark Fighter-Bomber up for pre-order

Post#13 » Nov 10 2017 09:01

For what it's worth, I've always had great experience with Forgeworld models. I've made more than a few purchases with them in recent history but have only ever encountered one or two serious mould defects (and even then they were either virtually unnoticeable to the untrained eye or fairly simple to repair). Their customer service is also top-notch.

However, I must warn against further such talk, as it is starting to get somewhat off-topic. Let's stick to discussing this new Forgeworld release for the Tau range rather than the perceived merits of Forgeworld's MO.
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Re: New Tigershark Fighter-Bomber up for pre-order

Post#14 » Nov 10 2017 11:30

Kakapo42 wrote:For what it's worth, I've always had great experience with Forgeworld models. I've made more than a few purchases with them in recent history but have only ever encountered one or two serious mould defects (and even then they were either virtually unnoticeable to the untrained eye or fairly simple to repair). Their customer service is also top-notch.

However, I must warn against further such talk, as it is starting to get somewhat off-topic. Let's stick to discussing this new Forgeworld release for the Tau range rather than the perceived merits of Forgeworld's MO.

Every model I've ordered from them has had at least one minor thing wrong with it but it's quick and free to get a replacement part.

Although I am opening my first Barracuda from their bundle and it was flawless barring the usual cleaning.

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nic
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Re: New Tigershark Fighter-Bomber up for pre-order

Post#15 » Nov 10 2017 02:17

For what its worth the new data sheet just gives the ability to swap out the burst cannons for CIB. Not much change but then I don't think it needed much - this was one of the FW data sheets that they got more or less right.

My only problem is how much I want one and how much it is irrational to spend that much money on a model I barely have room for. :-?

PeeJ
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Re: New Tigershark Fighter-Bomber up for pre-order

Post#16 » Nov 10 2017 04:42

nic wrote:For what its worth the new data sheet just gives the ability to swap out the burst cannons for CIB. Not much change but then I don't think it needed much - this was one of the FW data sheets that they got more or less right.

My only problem is how much I want one and how much it is irrational to spend that much money on a model I barely have room for. :-?


If it helps ease your quandry, I have the new AX-1-0 and the cast is just beautiful.

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Haechi
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Re: New Tigershark Fighter-Bomber up for pre-order

Post#17 » Nov 10 2017 06:49

To get back to the model and its rules, I like it.
If you start on the board next to a Commander to yell Mont'Ka, You can have serious 2+ Firepower on the first round. With twin Ion Cannons and the free Missiles, you do have a strong Alpha strike capable of taking out some serious threat. It comes at 453 points, without the Commander, but it's a tough nut to crack as well and able to stay at long range. Might be a decent entry.

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