Chapter Approved Leaks Discussion

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Lostroninsoul
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Re: Chapter Approved Leaks Discussion

Post#109 » Dec 01 2017 05:33

SinisterSamurai wrote:I'm expecting a fast FAQ on this one, but, here's the new character rule.
http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1512114809065.jpg
There's one intended difference, and differences I believe are unintended.
First up, the intended change is simply clarification, as seen in recent FAQs and commentary:
Characters must be the closest target, no ifs, ands, or buts. If another unit is hiding behind a wall, but is closer, you still can't target the character. This was intended to prevent "Rhino sniping," where a player uses large, blocky vehicles to obscure other units, so that the, "nearest visible" target was a character.

The first unintended difference, is the change from "Wounds Characteristic" to simple "Wounds." A person could easily exploit this to argue that a when a large character model is reduced to 9 wounds, they become immune to targeting.

The second unintended change is the loss of the "shooting phase" restriction, which means characters are no untargetable during overwatch, even if they charge first, should another unit be closer when the character declares the charge. For T'au, this also affects our cooperative overwatches.

Again, I believe that these two "side effects," will be errata'd quickly, but it is up to you, the individual player, to determine whether these changes are valid in your games.

Based on the picture your interpretation 'appears' correct. However, it is a tiny snipet of the page it is on. It is entirely possibly that it is being taking out of context. It maybe in a section labeled "shooting phase rules" ect. So we will have to wait and see what the full page says. I have a hunch it is on a shooting phase rule page, tbh.

Nymphomanius
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Re: Chapter Approved Leaks Discussion

Post#110 » Dec 01 2017 07:01

SinisterSamurai wrote:The second unintended change is the loss of the "shooting phase" restriction, which means characters are no untargetable during overwatch, even if they charge first, should another unit be closer when the character declares the charge. For T'au, this also affects our cooperative overwatches.


I don't think it will apply to overwatch because you don't select a target, you are reacting to a charge.

Though I would agree you now can't target characters with psychic powers unless they are closest unit.

Though the 9 wounds bit I would say is 9 wounds on profile still, a hive tyrant doesn't become invisible because I shot it :D

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SinisterSamurai
Kor'La
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Re: Chapter Approved Leaks Discussion

Post#111 » Dec 01 2017 07:38

Lostroninsoul wrote: Based on the picture your interpretation 'appears' correct. However, it is a tiny snipet of the page it is on. It is entirely possibly that it is being taking out of context. It maybe in a section labeled "shooting phase rules" ect. So we will have to wait and see what the full page says. I have a hunch it is on a shooting phase rule page, tbh.

Fair enough, but I've seen the page itself, and there's not really any additional context. This is from a section of matched play rules updates. This section does not rehash the core rules with a "shooting section," as it were. The part above talks about how and why rules are changing. The next part below discusses one of the other "new" match play rules, like boots on the ground or limits of command.

I totally understand giving it the benefit of the doubt, though. That preface might have something.
Nymphomanius wrote:I don't think it will apply to overwatch because you don't select a target, you are reacting to a charge.

Though I would agree you now can't target characters with psychic powers unless they are closest unit.

Though the 9 wounds bit I would say is 9 wounds on profile still, a hive tyrant doesn't become invisible because I shot it :D

Most persons I've debated this with argue that overwatch uses all of the rules for shooting, and psychic powers don't "target." I'm not telling you how to interpret the rule, but rather advising players of an issue they may have to discuss with an opponent who interprets them that way.

Nymphomanius
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Re: Chapter Approved Leaks Discussion

Post#112 » Dec 01 2017 08:56

SinisterSamurai wrote:Most persons I've debated this with argue that overwatch uses all of the rules for shooting, and psychic powers don't "target." I'm not telling you how to interpret the rule, but rather advising players of an issue they may have to discuss with an opponent who interprets them that way.


What about psychic powers that select a target unit? How is that not targeting?

Also if an overwatch uses all the rules for a shooting attack including target selection when being charged can I overwatch against any unit I can see that's in range even if it's not the one declaring the charge?

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Beerson
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Re: Chapter Approved Leaks Discussion

Post#113 » Dec 01 2017 03:04

I think it's pretty obvious that this rule doesn't apply on overwatch, as you are not selecting target, you are shooting on the unit that charges, and anyone trying to tell you otherwise is probably "that guy"

Personally I thing this new rule is outright wrong, not just illogical.
If they were trying to stop cheesing by blocking LoS to shoot at characters, introducing new, even worse cheese is not the solution.

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SinisterSamurai
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Re: Chapter Approved Leaks Discussion

Post#114 » Dec 02 2017 12:11

Again, yes. I believe that the intent is clear, when held against the old rule and FAQs. I believe that this will be FAQed.

CelticBarbarian
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Re: Chapter Approved Leaks Discussion

Post#115 » Dec 05 2017 12:18

Grogalmighty wrote:Hey bro I am just saying how it is.

Also, don't use forgeworld as a barometer, what they make is entirely up to the director of that studio and he is the only Tau fan at GW.

"Only Tau fan at GW", aren't you forgetting about Phil Kelly? You know, the guy who basically defined the Farsight Enclaves lore and conformed Shas'O'Kais' canon status?

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AnonAmbientLight
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Re: Chapter Approved Leaks Discussion

Post#116 » Dec 06 2017 04:18

They did an FAQ that said that characters can be shot in overwatch even if they are not the closest model at the moment of their charge.

The character changes in CA do not change this fact.
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

CelticBarbarian
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Re: Chapter Approved Leaks Discussion

Post#117 » Dec 07 2017 03:40

AnonAmbientLight wrote:They did an FAQ that said that characters can be shot in overwatch even if they are not the closest model at the moment of their charge.

The character changes in CA do not change this fact.


Yeah... though most people I play tend to try sending in at least one squad of mooks to tie them up in melee before the character gets in.

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AnonAmbientLight
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Re: Chapter Approved Leaks Discussion

Post#118 » Dec 07 2017 03:44

That's fine. That's what you're supposed to do.

But if there was a squad of space marines in front and a chapter master charged your line from behind those space marines, you get to fire overwatch on the chapter master.

That doesn't change with the CA ruling. The CA ruling was to fix "clever use of game mechanics" from being taken advantage of.
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

PeeJ
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Re: Chapter Approved Leaks Discussion

Post#119 » Dec 07 2017 09:57

AnonAmbientLight wrote:That doesn't change with the CA ruling. The CA ruling was to fix "clever use of game mechanics" from being taken advantage of.


It was implemented because some people were parking tanks (Rhinos specifically) in such a way to block LOS to units closer than the characters so they could shoot at them IIRC?

It's good to know that the CA rule doesn't change the FAQ, but i'm sure there will be some out there that try to claim that it does, because people.

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StealthKnightSteg
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Re: Chapter Approved Leaks Discussion

Post#120 » Dec 08 2017 03:53

What I missed in the CA book was a point to confine the HQ spam a little...
I was really hoping on an extra rule for the Supreme Command Detachment. Something like that you can only employ this detachment if you have 3 of the following detachments in any combination already in your army (Patrol, Battalion, Brigade, Vanguard, Spearhead and Outrider)
That way it would be a more thematic solution.

Nymphomanius
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Re: Chapter Approved Leaks Discussion

Post#121 » Dec 08 2017 07:20

StealthKnightSteg wrote:What I missed in the CA book was a point to confine the HQ spam a little...
I was really hoping on an extra rule for the Supreme Command Detachment. Something like that you can only employ this detachment if you have 3 of the following detachments in any combination already in your army (Patrol, Battalion, Brigade, Vanguard, Spearhead and Outrider)
That way it would be a more thematic solution.


So you can't use SCD in tournaments where detachment is limited to 3 I get what you're saying but I think this is more a T'au issue than any other army, maybe tyranids but most armies I've seen if they use SCD are only using 1 especially in 1500pts and that area

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StealthKnightSteg
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Re: Chapter Approved Leaks Discussion

Post#122 » Dec 08 2017 07:33

Nymphomanius wrote:
StealthKnightSteg wrote:What I missed in the CA book was a point to confine the HQ spam a little...
I was really hoping on an extra rule for the Supreme Command Detachment. Something like that you can only employ this detachment if you have 3 of the following detachments in any combination already in your army (Patrol, Battalion, Brigade, Vanguard, Spearhead and Outrider)
That way it would be a more thematic solution.


So you can't use SCD in tournaments where detachment is limited to 3 I get what you're saying but I think this is more a T'au issue than any other army, maybe tyranids but most armies I've seen if they use SCD are only using 1 especially in 1500pts and that area


Unfortunatly I have seen armylists almost exclusivly employ this added with maybe a patrol detachment for some non character bodies on the table to take use of the character rule. HQ spam to make use of all the buffing power or individual powers while they cannot be targetted is borderline OP in some situations.

I think together with above mentioned rule I would add a maximum of 1 SCD per army.

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Arka0415
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Re: Chapter Approved Leaks Discussion

Post#123 » Dec 08 2017 08:14

StealthKnightSteg wrote:Unfortunatly I have seen armylists almost exclusivly employ this added with maybe a patrol detachment for some non character bodies on the table to take use of the character rule. HQ spam to make use of all the buffing power or individual powers while they cannot be targetted is borderline OP in some situations.

I think together with above mentioned rule I would add a maximum of 1 SCD per army.

I'm not familiar with these lists but I've heard similar complaints (armies with too many HQs) on other sites. Any factions in particular that you've noticed have good HQ-spam builds?

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StealthKnightSteg
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Re: Chapter Approved Leaks Discussion

Post#124 » Dec 08 2017 08:22

Arka0415 wrote:
StealthKnightSteg wrote:Unfortunatly I have seen armylists almost exclusivly employ this added with maybe a patrol detachment for some non character bodies on the table to take use of the character rule. HQ spam to make use of all the buffing power or individual powers while they cannot be targetted is borderline OP in some situations.

I think together with above mentioned rule I would add a maximum of 1 SCD per army.

I'm not familiar with these lists but I've heard similar complaints (armies with too many HQs) on other sites. Any factions in particular that you've noticed have good HQ-spam builds?


Astra Militarum with all the buffing characters
Girlyman, bannerdude and some more of those overlapping buff characters
and
T'au with 5+ Commanders

Nymphomanius
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Re: Chapter Approved Leaks Discussion

Post#125 » Dec 08 2017 09:15

StealthKnightSteg wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:
StealthKnightSteg wrote:Unfortunatly I have seen armylists almost exclusivly employ this added with maybe a patrol detachment for some non character bodies on the table to take use of the character rule. HQ spam to make use of all the buffing power or individual powers while they cannot be targetted is borderline OP in some situations.

I think together with above mentioned rule I would add a maximum of 1 SCD per army.

I'm not familiar with these lists but I've heard similar complaints (armies with too many HQs) on other sites. Any factions in particular that you've noticed have good HQ-spam builds?


Astra Militarum with all the buffing characters
Girlyman, bannerdude and some more of those overlapping buff characters
and
T'au with 5+ Commanders


Right but you can do both those in 1 SCD you would have to put rowrowrowyourboat gentlydownthestreamlyman in a super heavy auxiliary to keep regiment bonuses, but you can get 9 HQ between 1 SMC and 2 vanguard / outrider / spearhead anyway so again even limiting SMC to 1 wouldn't change that much.

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Yojimbob
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Re: Chapter Approved Leaks Discussion

Post#126 » Dec 08 2017 09:59

Chaos were doing it before they got a few things nerfed I heard. Probably still will.

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