The everchanging game: FAQs and Updates

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SinisterSamurai
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The everchanging game: FAQs and Updates

Post#1 » Dec 16 2017 05:36

I don't expect this to get a lot of discussion, but I'm shocked to see it get no mention at all. I figure these are worth noting, especially for our tourney and matched play Shas. https://www.warhammer-community.com/201 ... ge-post-2/

First up is a schedule of future events and FAQs. Whenever we get our Codex, we'll need to pour over it and be immediately vocal about its broken or exploitable rules combinations, because we'll get a specific FAQ within two weeks to address those. Very likely the FAQ will only be to make things work as intended, not change the intention. There'll be Big FAQs twice a year, and THOSE will probably change intentions, while Chapter Approved will change points and such.

2nd up: In that vein, Chapter Approved's FAQ is out and very much fixes the broken wording of it's own updated matched play Character Targeting rule. If you encounter someone who tries to pretend that their injured Hive Tyrant can't be targeted at 9 wounds, or someone tries to screen a character from overwatch fire by making sure they're charging from slightly further away, you're in the clear.

3rd up are the Beta rules, which will be deployed in a few tournaments and might be seen in future CAs. These further change Character Targeting to prevent characters from shielding other characters (They cite Culexus, but I'm thinking about the potential of The Eight), as well as the nerf the psychic phase and smite spam. Currently, it's only a phase where T'au suffer, so any nerf to Psychic is a Tau buff.

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Arka0415
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Re: The everchanging game: FAQs and Updates

Post#2 » Dec 16 2017 05:45

SinisterSamurai wrote:I don't expect this to get a lot of discussion, but I'm shocked to see it get no mention at all. I figure these are worth noting, especially for our tourney and matched play Shas.

Looks like this is new. Interesting. Knowing when an FAQ is coming soon, and when to bite the bullet and use the rules as-is, will be useful.

SinisterSamurai wrote:First up is a schedule of future events and FAQs. Whenever we get our Codex, we'll need to pour over it

I am looking forward to this more than literally any other event in my life. :P

SinisterSamurai wrote:...as well as the nerf the psychic phase and smite spam. Currently, it's only a phase where T'au suffer, so any nerf to Psychic is a Tau buff.

Less Smite will be great for us. However, some armies rely on smite, and this basically ruins smite past the third cast. I'm glad to see Psychic armies take a small nerf, but I do feel bad for Tyranid and Grey Knights players.

pilky
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Re: The everchanging game: FAQs and Updates

Post#3 » Dec 16 2017 07:08

SinisterSamurai wrote:2nd up: In that vein, Chapter Approved's FAQ is out and very much fixes the broken wording of it's own updated matched play Character Targeting rule. If you encounter someone who tries to pretend that their injured Hive Tyrant can't be targeted at 9 wounds, or someone tries to screen a character from overwatch fire by making sure they're charging from slightly further away, you're in the clear.


Their injured Hive Tyrant can't be targeted freely at 9 wounds though. The FAQ's whole point was to make that clear

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Arka0415
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Re: The everchanging game: FAQs and Updates

Post#4 » Dec 16 2017 07:31

pilky wrote:
SinisterSamurai wrote:2nd up: In that vein, Chapter Approved's FAQ is out and very much fixes the broken wording of it's own updated matched play Character Targeting rule. If you encounter someone who tries to pretend that their injured Hive Tyrant can't be targeted at 9 wounds, or someone tries to screen a character from overwatch fire by making sure they're charging from slightly further away, you're in the clear.


Their injured Hive Tyrant can't be targeted freely at 9 wounds though. The FAQ's whole point was to make that clear

It's wounds characteristic, not wounds remaining. For example Longstrike has a wounds characteristic of 13, regardless of the number of wounds he has remaining.

pilky
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Re: The everchanging game: FAQs and Updates

Post#5 » Dec 16 2017 07:44

Yeah, I just realised that after having some caffeine. Note to self: don’t get into rules discussions in the morning :P

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QimRas
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Re: The everchanging game: FAQs and Updates

Post#6 » Dec 16 2017 07:56

Arka0415 wrote:
SinisterSamurai wrote:...as well as the nerf the psychic phase and smite spam. Currently, it's only a phase where T'au suffer, so any nerf to Psychic is a Tau buff.

Less Smite will be great for us. However, some armies rely on smite, and this basically ruins smite past the third cast. I'm glad to see Psychic armies take a small nerf, but I do feel bad for Tyranid and Grey Knights players.


I know for Craftworlds it wil encourage players to select and use more than one or two of the "best" powers now that they can not rely on Smite as a constant fall back.

There wil also be a certain strategy to Smiting. Do you use your best psyker first, trying to get the highest damage in a single hit, or do you use your weaker ones first to get more smites in?

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nic
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Re: The everchanging game: FAQs and Updates

Post#7 » Dec 16 2017 08:30

Arka0415 wrote:Less Smite will be great for us. However, some armies rely on smite, and this basically ruins smite past the third cast. I'm glad to see Psychic armies take a small nerf, but I do feel bad for Tyranid and Grey Knights players.


Tyranids have other (better) ways to deliver mortal wounds - smite spam was a possible build for them but probably not a good one. I suspect that the beta test feedback on the proposed new rule for 'Nids will be pretty neutral - i.e. decent players easily adjust to the change.

GK are in an awkward place anyway. Some of the salty forum comments elsewhere would make you think this drops them from viable tournament army to junk status - which is hyperbole for a likely loss of 1-2 mortal wound output per turn. Pure GK lists were not competitive, this does not stop a pure GK list winning the LVO any more than a ban on horns would prevent the next Epsom Derby from being won by a unicorn. Even so I do think a tweak to this to not apply to mini-smites looks like a good suggestion in theory and just needs to be backed up by actual play-testing.

Smite spam was horrible and was a key part of some really anti-fun list builds that were crowding out more varied armies from the top tables. It needed some sort of tweak and I think the process for fixing this is dead right even if the exact wording of the proposed rule might want amending before it becomes part of the March FAQ drop.

The beta test character rule looks very good to me. I can't see a major flaw in it but if there is one I'm sure it will show up at one of the major tournaments and that will inform the final FAQ version.

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melaniros
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Re: The everchanging game: FAQs and Updates

Post#8 » Dec 16 2017 09:04

Too much updates and rulebooks!! It was like this in previous editions?

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Arka0415
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Re: The everchanging game: FAQs and Updates

Post#9 » Dec 16 2017 09:09

melaniros wrote:Too much updates and rulebooks!! It was like this in previous editions?

Right now the game is in a weird spot- we're still in the "transition" phase between editions, so there's a lot of things changing. Once the last Codex comes out (Summer 2018 maybe?) we should see the pace of updates slow considerably. Remember that FAQs are not updates, they're just clarifications. So the actual pace of updates is just one Chapter Approved per year.

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DominayTrix
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Re: The everchanging game: FAQs and Updates

Post#10 » Dec 16 2017 09:16

I think the character nerf will hit us pretty hard. It makes it so as soon as the drone cover goes down we can't force people to shoot one Commander at a time. Stealth suits and units of drones could become more mandatory to keep the bubble wrap up. I really hope our codex comes out before the nerf comes through otherwise we could be in an even tougher spot than before.

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Jefffar
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Re: The everchanging game: FAQs and Updates

Post#11 » Dec 16 2017 11:21

That's only a problem if you like to spam commanders.

I think a lot of the rule and stat changes have been geared towards reducing spam, which is a good thing.

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Unusualsuspect
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Re: The everchanging game: FAQs and Updates

Post#12 » Dec 16 2017 12:15

Arka0415 wrote:
melaniros wrote:Too much updates and rulebooks!! It was like this in previous editions?

Right now the game is in a weird spot- we're still in the "transition" phase between editions, so there's a lot of things changing. Once the last Codex comes out (Summer 2018 maybe?) we should see the pace of updates slow considerably. Remember that FAQs are not updates, they're just clarifications. So the actual pace of updates is just one Chapter Approved per year.


... You really think they won't release "8.5" and "8.75" and "9th" editions immediately upon exhausting the Codex pool?

Optimistic.

szeszej
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Re: The everchanging game: FAQs and Updates

Post#13 » Dec 16 2017 12:42

Change is a good thing, generally. If everything stays exactly the same, people lose interest. Slightly changing the rules constantly is what many (video) game developers do nowadays to keep people interested and I think GW finally follows that example.

And of course it's good for business

pilky
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Re: The everchanging game: FAQs and Updates

Post#14 » Dec 16 2017 03:02

Unusualsuspect wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:
melaniros wrote:Too much updates and rulebooks!! It was like this in previous editions?

Right now the game is in a weird spot- we're still in the "transition" phase between editions, so there's a lot of things changing. Once the last Codex comes out (Summer 2018 maybe?) we should see the pace of updates slow considerably. Remember that FAQs are not updates, they're just clarifications. So the actual pace of updates is just one Chapter Approved per year.


... You really think they won't release "8.5" and "8.75" and "9th" editions immediately upon exhausting the Codex pool?

Optimistic.


Do they need to with Chapter Approved? Seems like their plan is to release an update each year to tweak things and add new ways to play (which to me is an improvement over the “set it and forget it” attitude of previous editions)

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DominayTrix
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Re: The everchanging game: FAQs and Updates

Post#15 » Dec 16 2017 05:30

Jefffar wrote:That's only a problem if you like to spam commanders.

I think a lot of the rule and stat changes have been geared towards reducing spam, which is a good thing.


Oh I think its a good thing if we no longer have to spam commanders, but it is still concerning that we could lose one of our affordable viable strategies without anything to replace it. People like me are running normal xv8s as Commanders right now just so they can keep up with their friend's codex armies without having to buy Y'Vahra or two.

Also spam will always be a thing for competitive armies, its just a question of what is being spammed.

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Bloodknife92
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Re: The everchanging game: FAQs and Updates

Post#16 » Dec 16 2017 07:48

DominayTrix wrote:People like me are running normal xv8s as Commanders right now just so they can keep up with their friend's codex armies without having to buy Y'Vahra or two.

As much as I'm going to.regret it, I think I may need to start doing this.... My Crisis Bodyguards just can't perform to the magnitude of my regular opponents(Skitarii, and Militarum tank spam). Damn those Skitarii tanks are cheap and powerful -.-

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Chris
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Re: The everchanging game: FAQs and Updates

Post#17 » Dec 17 2017 10:11

DominayTrix wrote:. People like me are running normal xv8s as Commanders right now just so they can keep up with their friend's codex armies without having to buy Y'Vahra or two.


Although I do the same, I bought a Y’vahra, too. Of course it’s probably the best Tau unit atm, but it’s a really outstanding model, too. I love it.

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Unusualsuspect
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Re: The everchanging game: FAQs and Updates

Post#18 » Dec 17 2017 07:16

pilky wrote:
Unusualsuspect wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:Right now the game is in a weird spot- we're still in the "transition" phase between editions, so there's a lot of things changing. Once the last Codex comes out (Summer 2018 maybe?) we should see the pace of updates slow considerably. Remember that FAQs are not updates, they're just clarifications. So the actual pace of updates is just one Chapter Approved per year.


... You really think they won't release "8.5" and "8.75" and "9th" editions immediately upon exhausting the Codex pool?

Optimistic.


Do they need to with Chapter Approved? Seems like their plan is to release an update each year to tweak things and add new ways to play (which to me is an improvement over the “set it and forget it” attitude of previous editions)


So they can choose between A) milking new-edition and new-codex money (for some players, multiple codexes) every few years, or B) a much smaller amount in Chapter Approved that they'd be getting anyway (since selling Chapter Approved and new editions are not mutually exclusive).

The question is not what they could do, but what we expect them to do. I do not expect them to get rid of the new-edition-rebuy-your-books-every-few-years paradigm.

Would they NEED to? Probably not (though they might get grumbles from stockholders). But it isn't need that drives my assessment of Arka's statement as "optimistic".

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