[GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Use this area for all discussions of the "gaming" aspect of 40K/Tau.
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Temennigru
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#37 » Feb 06 2018 04:37

Roz'gyr wrote:
So we should be mix of mobility, firepower and durability (this was mostly about our tanks and Battlesuits). But the design notes might have changed for us in the meanwhile.


If rules stay the same, we won't have firepower or mobility. We will just have durability for cheap :/

Our index was the most screwed up in terms of both fluff and crunch. That is why we expect such a big change (one that we will probably never get and many people will be disappointed because the tau won't feel tau).

I don't really want to go back to the riptide wing way of things. I just want something that I can have fun with. Weapons and units that are just numbers are not fun.
One of my favorite weapons in 7e was a comissar melee weapon that gave you counterattacks during fight phase. It was never really useful, but just trying to figure out how to make it work made me have fun with the game. And the fact that the rules looked so cool made me pick it quite a few times in my tau/astra soup army.

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Arka0415
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#38 » Feb 06 2018 04:57

Temennigru wrote:
Roz'gyr wrote:So we should be mix of mobility, firepower and durability (this was mostly about our tanks and Battlesuits). But the design notes might have changed for us in the meanwhile.

If rules stay the same, we won't have firepower or mobility. We will just have durability for cheap :/

Our index was the most screwed up in terms of both fluff and crunch. That is why we expect such a big change (one that we will probably never get and many people will be disappointed because the tau won't feel tau).

I don't really want to go back to the riptide wing way of things. I just want something that I can have fun with. Weapons and units that are just numbers are not fun.
One of my favorite weapons in 7e was a comissar melee weapon that gave you counterattacks during fight phase. It was never really useful, but just trying to figure out how to make it work made me have fun with the game. And the fact that the rules looked so cool made me pick it quite a few times in my tau/astra soup army.

Tau have never been a "mobile" army- besides Piranhas and Vespid we've never been able to quickly relocate like Eldar, Dark Eldar, or Orks can. Rather, the Tau mobility is actually tactical flexibility, which we get from two sources: deep strike and range.

Tau can put a significant amount of units in deep strike reserve, giving us the ability to deploy our most critical units wherever and whenever we want. Once these units are placed, they have quick movement but aren't exactly fast.

The other aspect of our flexibility is the ranged advantage- we (are supposed to) outrange every other faction, allowing us to strike any part of the battlefield with a significant amount of firepower.

In the new codex we don't need speed I don't think, rather, we need the punch to make our tactical flexibility really worth it.

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Roz'gyr
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#39 » Feb 06 2018 05:11

Temennigru wrote:
Roz'gyr wrote:
So we should be mix of mobility, firepower and durability (this was mostly about our tanks and Battlesuits). But the design notes might have changed for us in the meanwhile.


If rules stay the same, we won't have firepower or mobility. We will just have durability for cheap :/

Our index was the most screwed up in terms of both fluff and crunch. That is why we expect such a big change (one that we will probably never get and many people will be disappointed because the tau won't feel tau).

I don't really want to go back to the riptide wing way of things. I just want something that I can have fun with. Weapons and units that are just numbers are not fun.
One of my favorite weapons in 7e was a comissar melee weapon that gave you counterattacks during fight phase. It was never really useful, but just trying to figure out how to make it work made me have fun with the game. And the fact that the rules looked so cool made me pick it quite a few times in my tau/astra soup army.


Well if our stuff get cheaper on the field we get more firepower. Mobility is currently nonexistent in our Index, yes. I think, since GW want to sell more models, we will get cheaper (so if you finally had that 2000pts build, now you will have to buy 3 more Crisis suits to get back to that value, mwahahaha!) which yes, will make many of us not be able to afford. But past has showed me that every time price of playing a standard 1850 army has gone up (price hike of a model or units getting cheaper points wise) there were complaints and later it calmed down, usually thanks to bundles or things like Start Collecting which to us is something like "Buy these 3 Crisis suits 5€ more expensive and get this Ethereal and 10 Fire Warriors for free." But I believe I am offtopicing.

I see what you mean with the Comissar weapon. Truth is I haven't seen much of the other codicii, maybe a bit of Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, bit of AdMech and Astra Militarum. Most of what I have seen felt... uninspired. All of the units felt like "This is the role of this unit and this is the simple way it does it." while for example 6th edition Daemons of Chaos codex felt very fluffy, fun to play (but nowhere near competitive tier) and filled to the brim with fantastic stuff with weird mechanics and randomness which immediately made you think "how am I going to make this work and make it into at least semi-coherent army which can do stuff I want it to do?"
All of the 8th edition feels very very streamlined. Much less randomness and rules you need to remember but much less what you describe- stuff that make you think "This looks fun. I wonder how can I make it work." I personally don't mind that much since most of what I do is model and paint (Let's say 3-4 long evening in a week, 4-5 hours each compared to 2-3 games a month about 3-4 hours each) and they can't take fun out of it if I decide on a crazy color scheme or interesting conversion. But we will need to get into terms with fact that 8th is bleak and simplified (on the other hand 7th was maybe too full of special rules and untested rules and formations turning out to be OP or extra weak) compared to the previous editions. I have come to terms with it, but that doesn't means I wouldn't enjoy some weirder and more unique stuff for each fraction.

But back to the game of prediction. I want to see more people to write what they think will be in the new codex. ;)
Walk softly. And carry a big BRUSH.

Nymphomanius
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#40 » Feb 06 2018 07:48

Arka0415 wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:
Torch wrote:
It would be glorious! :evil:


What's that you want to overcharge your space marine plasma cannon against my ghostkeel? You'll need a 6 to hit then and btw you kill yourself on a 1,2,3+4 enjoy your reroll of 1's :D :fear: :dead:

God I hope we get that wargear back to force units to overheat their weapons I'm happy for relic or stratagem but relic is more likely.

It's unlikely that we'll get this one, as high model-count armies (Tyranids and Guard) don't get it. I think GW wants us to be seen as a high model-count army, for good or for ill.


Sorry if I wasn't clear but through my jest I was implying the -1 to hit stratagem wasn't coming to us what I'm hoping we get back in relic form is the item that caused 1 unit a turn to have all their weapons explode on a 1 regardless of what weapons they were, which would be awesome now combined with stealth suits and ghostkeels

PeeJ
Shas'La
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#41 » Feb 07 2018 07:24

Swinging for the fences here ladies and gents, there's going to be a lot of lots points for things being here that aren't included, but hey, I had fun! I also did no math at all with regards to points changes, just picked numbers out of the air ;)

Markerlight Table Changes - (1pt per correct change/entry on your table);


    * 1 ML - Seeker/Destroyer Missiles hit at BS
    * 2 ML - +1 BS
    * 3 ML - Re-Roll 1's to hit
    * 4 ML - No Change
    * 5 ML - T'au empire units ignore any 'to hit' modifiers (including those for moving and firing heavy weapons, or advancing and firing assault weapons)



Unit Points Changes - (1pt per correct unit/change, bonus point for correct CHANGE value // -1pt per incorrect guess)

    * Crisis - Down - 12
    * Crisis Bodyguard- Down - 10
    * Commander - Up - 20
    * Broadside - Down - 20
    * XV95 - Down -20
    * Riptide - Down - 59
    * Dun Drones - up - 4
    * Shadowsun - Down - 10
    * Farsight - Down - 10
    * Devilfish - Down -21



Weapon Points Changes - (1pt per correct Weapon/change, 1 bonus point for correct CHANGE value // -1pt per incorrect guess)

    * Burst Cannon - Down - 4
    * High Output BC - Down - 6
    * HRR - Down - 10
    * CIR - Down - 4
    * Flamer - Up - 1
    * Ion Rifle - Up - 2
    * Missile Pod - Down - 6
    * Plasma Rife - Down - 1
    * Ion Accelerator - Down - 40
    * Ion Cannon - Down - 10
    * Rail Rifle - Down - 5
    * HBC - Down - 10
    * Pulse Driver Cannon - Down - 10



Strategems - (1pt per correct rule/effect, 1 bonus point for correct CP cost)

    * JSJ (All Jetpack Models) - 3 CP
    * Riptide Wing Ripple Fire Ability - 3 CP
    * Set up 1/2 none-DS units in DS - 1/3 CP
    * Self-Destruct suit to cause damage within a set radius when a suit dies - 1CP
    * Enemy Unit Weapons have 'Gets Hot' rule for 1 turn - 1 CP
    * Aircaste Support (some sort of once per game 'roll to assign mortal wounds to enemy unit' setup) - 2CP
    * "Fall Back Role" (After an enemy unit declares a charge, use this to allow the 'charged' unit to make a roll to see how far they move away from the charging unit) - 1CP
    * Renamed Elday Illusion Strategy - Exactly the same cost/rule to change deployment, just renamed
    * Overwatch Schenanegins (+1 to a units OW) - 1CP
    * Ejection System (When a battlesuit is destroyed, replace it with a mon'at firewarrior armed with a Pulse pistol - Can deny a 'slay the warlord') - 1CP
    * Co-ordinated Fire (Multiple units shooting at the same target get +1 BS after the first unit has fired) - 2CP
    * Stand Still, Shoot Twice (infantry unit) - 1 CP



Septs - (1pt per sept featured// -1 per not-featured sept

    * T'au
    * Vior'la
    * Farsight Enclaves
    * Sa'Cea
    * Dal'yth
    * Ke'lshan
    * Bork'an



Signature Systems - (1pt per system featured, 5 bonus points for guessing the accompanying rule/buff/stats line // -1 per not-featured system

    * Iridium Armour - 2+ save
    * Fusion Blades - STR +1 / AP -2
    * repair nanites - chance to repair D3 wounds in the morale phase
    * Prototype Shield Generator - 3+ INV
    * Onager Gauntlet - Basically a powerfist
    * Talisman of Arthas Moloch - Grants 'Deny the Witch' roll



Traits - (1pt per trait featured, 1 bonus point for correct sept // -1pt for not-featured trait

    * Renamed True Grit - Farsight Enclaves
    * Renamed Salamander Train - Vior'la
    * Renamed Imperial Fists Trait - Sa'Cea
    * Renamed Ultramarines Trait - T'au



Misc - 1pt per miscellaneous change predicted // -1pt per incorrect prediction

    * Sniper Drones can target characters
    * Hammerhead gets the Lemon Rust 'half move/fire twice' rule

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Albatraoz
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#42 » Feb 15 2018 06:35

Long time lurker, first time posting. :biggrin:
This looked like fun so I thought I'd give it a shot. I might add more in the way of points changes but I may not. who knows?!


Markerlight Table Changes - (1pt per correct change/entry on your table);

they may very well change the markerlight after the first token but I'm not sure how



Unit Points Changes - (1pt per correct unit/change, bonus point for correct CHANGE value // -1pt per incorrect guess)

  • VX88 decrease by 15 to 65
  • XV95 Ghostkeel decrease by 12 to 70
  • Pathfinder decrease by 1 to 4
  • XV8 Crisis decrease by 10 to 32
  • TY7 Devilfish decrease by 21 to 80
  • Commander Shadowsun decrease by 23 to 144
  • Commander Farsight decrease by 26 to 125
  • TX7 Hammerhead Gunship decrease by 17 to 100
  • TX78 Sky Ray Gunship decreases by 17 to 102
  • XV105 Riptide decrease by 40 points



Weapon Points Changes - (1pt per correct Weapon/change, 1 bonus point for correct CHANGE value // -1pt per incorrect guess)

one of our weapons will likely get exploding attacks like the necron's telsa weapons, Smart Missile System is my guess


  • Fusion blaster increase by 4 to 25
  • Heavy rail rifle decrease by 30 to 33
  • High Yield Missile Pod decrease by 20 to 21
  • Cyclic ion raker decrease by 4 to 35
  • Fusion collider increase by 1 to 50
  • Heavy Burst Cannon decrease 10 to 45
  • Ion Accelerator decrease by 22 to 85
  • Cyclic ion blaster decrease by 2 to 16


Strategems - (1pt per correct rule/effect, 1 bonus point for correct CP cost)

I do think that most unit keywords will get a stratagem that affects it specifically, but for what buff I don't know. I think GW has a base bunch of strats for codex now, with a bunch of new names over the same mechanic for a different chapter or race. I don't have time (or money) to cross reference every codex/stratagem. I bet we get a strat like 'Killshot' or 'Linked Fire' for our few heavy support options. we'll probably get around 15-18 total.

  • Rapid Iterative Prototyping 1-3cp (every codex has had this)
    you can take an extra 1 (1cp) or 2 (3cp) relics, er, Signature Systems
  • VECTORED RETRO THURSTERS 1cp (the eldar have one of these already)
    You can use this Stratagem after a friendly BATTLESUIT unit shoots in your Shooting phase. If you do so, the unit can immediately move 8" as if it were the Movement phase (it cannot Advance as part of this move). However, it cannot charge in the same turn that it does so.
  • UPLINKED MARKERLIGHT 1cp (in Chapter Approved)
    Use this Stratagem after an enemy unit has been hit by a markerlight fired by a model from your army. Place D3+1 markerlight counters next to that unit instead of only 1.
  • PATHFINDERS 1cp (in a different codex, but I forget which)
    Use this Stratagem at the start of an enemy Shooting phase. Pick a <SEPT> PATHFINDER? unit from your army that is in cover. Attacks that target that unit in this phase will only hit on rolls of a 6, irrespective of any modifiers.
  • POWER OVERWHELMING 1cp('veterans of the long war' or 'scorch bugs')
    Use this Stratagem when a T'AU EMPIRE BATTLESUIT unit is selected to attack in a Shooting phase. You can add 1 to all wound rolls made for the unit until the end of the phase.
  • EMERGENCY EJECTION PROTOCOL Use this Stratagem if your warlord is dead and has the BATTLESUIT key word, roll a dice, on a 3+ your warlord is still slain, but not for the purposes of scoring (like the Cypher ability)


Septs - (1pt per sept featured// -1 per not-featured sept)

This feels like throwing darts at a wall and I'm bad a playing darts. There are a number (18?) of septs in the 7e codex so I semi-randomly chose 8 + FSE

  • T'AU - add 1 to leadership of T'AU EMPIRE units from this sept.
  • BORK'AN - Units from this sept add 6" to the maximum range of Heavy or Rapid Fire weapons they fire which would normally have a range of 24" or more.
  • TAU'N - bonus to FLY/FLYER/JET PACK keyword? gain 'hard to hit'?
  • N'DRAS - -1 enemy to hit for all T'AUEMPIRE units from this sept
  • VIOR'LA - INFANTRY and BATTLESUT units from this sept can Advance and still shoot any weapon type (except Heavy weapons). When they do so,they do not suffer the usual penalties to hit rolls for Assault weapons. VEHICLES from this sept do not suffer the penalty to their hit rolls for moving and firing Heavy weapons. If a TITANIC VEHICLE from this sept Advances, it treats all Heavy weapons it is equipped with as Assault weapons until the end of the turn
  • KE'LSHAN - +1 to wound anything without the T'AU EMPIRE keyword
  • T'ROS - you can include ASTRA MILITARUM units and T'AU EMPIRE units in the same matched play army, even though these units don’t have any Faction keywords in common. However, you can only include one Astra Militarum Detachment (one in which every unit has the Astra Militarum keyword) in a Battle-forged army for each T'au Empire Detachment (one in which every unit has the T'au Empire keyword) in that army. In such cases, simply ignore the Astra Militarum units when choosing your army’s Faction.
  • FAL'SHIA- can take an extra relic
  • FARSIGHT ENCLAVES - you can take battlesuits as troop choices


Signature Systems - (1pt per system featured, 5 bonus points for guessing the accompanying rule/buff/stats line // -1 per not-featured system)

I'm guessing at it'll probably be 6-7 relics including PURETIDE ENGRAM NEUROCHIP
  • PURETIDE ENGRAM NEUROCHIP (We know this one, but free points plzmayb?)
    Once per battle, you can re-roll a single hit roll, wound roll or damage roll made for the bearer, or a friendly <SEPT> unit within 6" of the bearer. In addition, if your army is Battle-forged and the bearer is on the battlefield, roll a D6 each time you or your opponent use a Stratagem; on a 6 you gain a bonus Command Point.
  • ONAGER GUANTLET
    Onager Guantlet has the following profile
    Onager Guantlet Melee Melee x2 -4 D3 When attacking with this weapon, you must subtract 1 from the hit roll.
  • NEUROWEB SYSTEM JAMMER
    Once Per Battle, at the start of the enemy shooting phase a model with a Neuroweb System Jammer can use it to target a single enemy unit within 12". All shots from that unit are treated as if they were overcharged (i.e. mortal wounds on hit rolls of 1)
  • FAILSAFE DETONATOR
    Model with the BATTLESUIT key word only. If a model with a FAILSAFE DETONATOR is slain within 1" of an enemy model, all models within 6" take D3 mortal wounds
  • XV8-02 CRISIS 'IRIDIUM' BATTLESUIT Add 1 to Toughness characteristic and a 2+ armor save. If your model didn't have the BATTLESUIT keyword before it does now.
  • REPULSOR IMPACT FIELD
    After the enemy has completed all of their charge moves, any enemy units that charged a unit equipped with a Repulsor Impact Field suffer D6 S5 hits on each model in the enemy unit that completed a charge.
  • COMMAND AND CONTROL NODE
    if a model equiped with this wargear all shooting attacks made by friendly <SEPT> BATTLESUIT units and <SEPT> DRONE units within 6" never suffer penalties to hit. In addition, if the bearer does not shoot in the shooting phase, friendly <SEPT> BATTLESUIT units and <SEPT> DRONE units within 6" may also add one to their hit rolls.
  • MULTI-SPECTRUM SENSOR SUITE
    All shooting attacks made by other friendly <SEPT> BATTLESUIT units and <SEPT> DRONE units within 6" ignore cover.
  • FUSION BLADES
    Commander with two fusion blasters from <FARSIGHT ENCLAVES> or <FAL'SHIA> only.
      Fusion Blades replaces this model’s fusion blasters and has the following profile:
    • Fusion Blades(melee) Melee Melee 8 -4 D6
      If you make one or more hit rolls of 1, the fusion blades stop working (either profile) and the bearer suffers a mortal wound after all of this weapon’s shots have been resolved.
    • Fusion Blades(ranged) 18" Assault 2 8 -4 D6
      If the target is within half range of this weapon, roll two dice when inflicting damage with it and discard the lowest result.
  • MIRRORCODEX (FARSIGHT ENCLAVES only?)
    If a model in your army has the Mirrorcodex, you can add 1 to your dice roll when Seizing the Initiative. Furthermore, if a model in your army is bearing the Mirrorcodex, roll a D6 at the beginning of each of your turns and consult the table below. The effects listed affect the bearer and all friendly units within 6", and last until the end of the turn.
    D6 EFFECT
    1-3 None
    4 Preferred Enemy (Space Marines)
    5 Preferred Enemy (Space Marines and Astra Militarum)
    6 Preferred Enemy


Traits - (1pt per trait featured, 1 bonus point for correct sept // -1pt for not-featured trait)

    If the Warlord of your army is an T'AU EMPIRE CHARACTER, you can pick their Warlord Trait from the T'au Empire Traits table, or roll a dice and consult the table to generate their Warlord Trait.
    1. EXEMPLAR OF THE MONT’KA (In Chapter Approved)
      This Warlord can Advance and still shoot as if they hadn’t moved this turn.
    2. EXEMPLAR OF THE KAUYON (In Chapter Approved) You can re-roll failed hit rolls for your Warlord as long as they have not moved this turn. If they have moved for any reason, they lose this trait until the start of their next turn.
    3. PRECISION OF THE SKILLED HUNTER (everyone has one of these) Your warlord can target CHARACTERS even if they are not the closest enemy model
    4. A GHOST WALKS AMONG US your warlord gains a benefit of something useful related to their FLY/JET PACK keyword
    5. ECHOES OF THE GRANDMASTER You can always choose your Warlord to fight first in the Fight phase even if he didn’t charge. If the enemy has units that have charged, or that have a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn is taking place.
    6. EXEMPLAR OF THE SELFLESS CAUSE Friendly T’AU EMPIRE units within 12" of your Warlord automatically pass Morale tests.

    Sept Related warlord traits
    T'AU - EXEMPLAR OF THE SELFLESS CAUSE
    BORK'AN - PRECISION OF THE SKILLED HUNTER
    N'DRA - A GHOST WALKS AMONG US
    TAU'N - EXEMPLAR OF THE KAUYON
    VIOR'LA - ECHOES OF THE GRANDMASTER
    KE'LSHAN - EXEMPLAR OF THE MONT’KA
    FAL'SHIA - add one to the wound characteristic of your warlord and a 6+ fnp
    FARSIGHT ENCLAVES +1 to charge distance and to hit during the fight phase after manta-striking


Misc - (1pt per miscellaneous change predicted // -1pt per incorrect prediction)

  • You can take kroot/vespid and the <SEPT> keyword in the same detachment, but you can't use greater good for non-<SEPT> units, because for reasons!
  • I really hope the multi-tracker changes
  • might make sense thematically to pay 1/3 cp for alien auxiliary like kroot/vespid /gue'vesa instead of a sept trait, symbolizing the water caste spending influence or something to secure allied help
  • looking forward to the JET PACK and BATTLESUIT tags being defined; 6" JETPACK advance?!
  • Darkstrider loses the T'AU sept keyword for the <SEPT> keyowrd

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Temennigru
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Posts: 384

Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#43 » Feb 15 2018 06:52

Arka0415 wrote:Tau have never been a "mobile" army- besides Piranhas and Vespid we've never been able to quickly relocate like Eldar, Dark Eldar, or Orks can. Rather, the Tau mobility is actually tactical flexibility, which we get from two sources: deep strike and range.

From the wiki
the Stormsurge was too cumbersome to be equipped with a Jetpack, thereby excluding it from the style of fluid, mobile warfare practiced by Battlesuit teams

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