[GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Use this area for all discussions of the "gaming" aspect of 40K/Tau.
Nymphomanius
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#19 » Jan 30 2018 02:30

Temennigru wrote:Fusion Kuraida: + range

What's a fusion kuraida? And how do I get one? :D

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Temennigru
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#20 » Jan 30 2018 03:51

Nymphomanius wrote:
Temennigru wrote:Fusion Kuraida: + range

What's a fusion kuraida? And how do I get one? :D

It's how you say fusion collider in t'au :P

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Osocruel
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#21 » Jan 30 2018 05:09

Temennigru wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:
Temennigru wrote:Fusion Kuraida: + range

What's a fusion kuraida? And how do I get one? :D

It's how you say fusion collider in t'au :P


This is too funny! :)

Gather
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#22 » Jan 30 2018 11:04

Unit Point Changes
Commanders go up 25 points
Gun Drones go up by 2 points

Strategems
3cp -- Target unit can shoot again
1cp -- In the Charge phase, models with Jetpack keyword can do a move action instead of charging (AKA JSJ).
2cp -- Unit can fall back and shoot.
2cp -- +1 to Overwatch
1cp -- Pathfinders gain durability (Can only be hit on a 6?)
1cp -- Immediately deploy a Stormsurge's Anchors.

Septs
Farsight Sept -- Reroll failed Charges
Fi'rios Sept -- Halved Moral Losses
T'au Sept -- Conditional Reroll 1's (All Weapons/Models are firing at the same target and maybe haven't moved this turn)
Vior'la Sept -- Rapid Fire is treated as Assault after advancing
Sa'cea Sept -- Hits on 5/6 when firing Overwatch/For the Greater Good
Bork'an -- Rapid Fire at 24"

Misc
Cadre Fireblade's extra shot aura only effects infantry.
Tidewall Shieldline deals a Mortal Wound each time you roll a 6 (After re-rolls, before modifiers).

For the dream, Tidewall Shieldline gets a 5++ save.

AleksandrGRC
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#23 » Jan 30 2018 11:34

New carbine squad for Firewarriors (seems likely$$)
Maybe even a new crisis type of unit using same modle. (or buffed bodyguards like “deploys with commanders then acts seperatly)

Skyray bonus vs fly(wish for a seeker refill stratagem)

drone units that start as three or less do not count towards VP conditions or objectives.
Ghostkeels drones count as characters(or something to rework the keel just a tad).

Anything like doublefire or jsj n such will apply to one unit. Thats also itc but i think we will just get one unit period anyways because tau stigma but that could be a benifit if some of them are 2cp or 1cp.

Some sort of optional grenade stratagems like others have mentioned.

Someway to guarantee high levels of damage for random damage single shot weapons. Like rerolls.

And most importantly
More ways to get the ever so important reroll ones to hit. :smile:

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Arka0415
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#24 » Jan 30 2018 11:41

AleksandrGRC wrote:And most importantly
More ways to get the ever so important reroll ones to hit.

I'm calling it now- AleksandrGRC wins the pool! :D

PeeJ
Shas'La
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#25 » Jan 31 2018 05:06

Arka0415 wrote:
AleksandrGRC wrote:And most importantly
More ways to get the ever so important reroll ones to hit.

I'm calling it now- AleksandrGRC wins the pool! :D


I know you 'never re-roll a re-roll', but maybe we are underestimating GW and they didn't give us 48 ways to get re-roll 1's by accident. Maybe they are all separate to-hit rolls that stack unless otherwise stated (like the different FNP's) and we have all been playing it wrong! ;)

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Roz'gyr
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#26 » Feb 05 2018 11:44

Yay, a game. Well, it's been a few years since i have posted here on ATT, so why not.

Septs:
- There will be T'au, Vior'la, Sa'cea, possibly Kel'shan and Bork'an and definitely Farsight Enclaves
- Most probably we will not get the -1 to hit if fired at from 12" or more (Imagine with Ghostkeels and Stalthsuits)
- Conditional re-rolls to-hit of 1 (possibly if not moving- Sa'cea?)
- +1 Leadership, or Bonding Knife procs on 5+ (This would probably go to T'au sept)
- Treating Rapid Fire weapons as Assault or ignoring the penalty for Advancing and firing Assault weapons (Vior'la?)
- +1 on To-hit rolls in melee for Battlesuits or possibly even everyone (Enclaves?)
- +1 to save when in cover for Infantry or always counting as in cover for infantry (Bork'an?)

Unit and Wargear pricing:
- Commanders at least +20pts/+1 Power Rating
- Crisis Team at least -5pts per suit/-2Pwr per basic squad
- Crisis Bodyguards at least -5pts per suit/-2Pwr per basic squad
- Broadside Battlesuit at least -10pts per suit/-1Pwr
- Riptide at least -30pts/2pwr if there is chance for MW from Nova, at least -15pts/-1pwr if the Nova can't wound the suit
- Sky Ray at least -10pts/1pwr
- Sniper Drone team at least -3pts per Drone/-1pwr per squad
- Gun Drone at least +2pts per Drone (or different nerf- see Unit and wargear changes in this post)
- Shadowsun at least -10pts
- Kroot Carnivores at least -1pts per model/-1pwr per basic squad
- Kroot Shaper at least -5pts
- Krootox at least -4pts per model/-1pwr per model
- Devilfish at least -10pts/-1pwr
- Razorshark at least -10pts/-1pwr
- Smart Missile System at least -5pts
- Missile Pod at least -9pts
- Burst cannon at least -2pts (or other buff, see Unit and wargear changes)
- Ion Accelerator at least -20pts
- Ion Cannon at least -10pts
- Rail Rifle at least -5pts
- Heavy Rail Rifle at least -10pts
- High-yield Missile Pod at least -5pts
- Heavy Burst Cannon at least -5pts
- Pulse Driver Cannon at least -20pts
- ATS possibly -2pts

Unit and wargear changes:
- Commander loses Master of War in its current form, instead have constant weaker aura (possibly still Mont'ka and Kauyon interchangible) with range 3" to 6"
- Ethereal's Invocation of Elements might change the Storm of Fire to either not need to be stationary, or give different buff for shooting (maybe even re-roll to-wounds of 1 for Pulse Rifles, Carabines and Pistols within range?)
- Cadre Fireblade's Volley Fire will be restricted to Infantry models only
- Commander Farsight will have Mont'ka (can still change like a commander) aura with longer range
- Commander Shadowsun will have Kauyon (can still change like a commander) aura with longer range and her Command-link Drone will gain a different ability (possibly Ignores Cover for the nominated unit)
- Krootox will finally make his mind about wanting to be both in melee and at range :D possibly being more of a tough (better Save, or 6+ ignore wound) firing platform, changing his current Advance rule for ability to fire his gun without penalty or with -1 after advancing
- Kroot Shaper will gain the same Infiltrate ability as Carnivores.
- Carnivores, Kootoxen and Shapers gain an ability which give them buff when they are in cover, possibly +1 bonus to save, or -1 to-hit for opponent (I would be much more inclined to the first option).
- Ghostkeel might have its Stealth Drones changed, possibly giving them rule which gives them ability which makes them even harder to target if they are in cover.
- Riptide should have the Nova reactor deal MW to him on a chance (on 3+ or 4+ it works properly and doesn't wound the suit), similar to 7th edition, or possibly even remove the chance altogether (Tau might have perfected the Nova Reactor tech in the last few years).
- Tactical Drones- Gun Drones might get nerfed in an unexpected way to stay on current point cost. Possibly something like: "Low powered weapons- treat this model's Pulse Carabines as Assault 1 instead of Assault 2."
- Sniper Drones might get +1 Ballistic Skill
- Sky Ray will get a in-built Velocity Tracker (But you must pay for it for the same price as one for Battlesuits)
- Longstrike might get a nerf in form of adding condition for his buff to BS or similar (For example it only applies for Hammerheads that didn't move)
- Hammerheads probably gain the ability to fire main weapon twice if they don't move (added with Longstrike's buff change making Hammerheads choose between mobility or firepower)
- Standard tanks (Devilfish, Sky Ray, Hammerhead, Longstrike) will get ability to fire Heavy weapons without penalty for moving, or at least gain a possibility of taking a support system for this (Sensor Spines?).
- "Big" Battlesuits (Ghostkeels, Riptides) will gain the ability to fire Heavy weapons after moving without penalty.
- Crisis Bodyguards will get fourth Hardpoint for a system.
- Tidewll Gunrig will be able to fire its Supremacy Railgun on BS of one of the models embarked.
- Airbursting Fragmentation Projector will become constant Assault 5 or Assault 6.
- Burst cannon will get either Range 24" or a bonus shot.
- Fusion Collider will become Heavy 3.
- Heavy Burst Cannon's Nova profile will gain Damage 2.
- High-output Burst Cannon will either get Range 24" or 2 bonus shots.
- Longshot Pulse Rifle will gain the ability to cause a Mortal Wound on a to-wound roll of 6+.
- Pulse Driver Cannon will become Heavy 3 or Heavy 6 if target unit has at least 10 models.
- Rail weapons will get flat Damage values, possibly Rifle D2, Heavy Rifle 4 and Railgun and Supremacy Railgun 6.
- Railgun and Supremacy Railgun might get bonus Str. Possibly +2.
- New Support System- Blacksun Filter- Gives the model immunity to negative modifiers from enemy model's rules for to-hit rolls in the Shooting phase (probably costed about right or overcosted)
- Return of Vehicle support systems, possibly Blacksun Filter for Vehicles (same as on suits), Sensor Spines (Allows to fire Heavy weapons without penalty), Flechette Discharger (At the beginning of the fight phase roll dice equal to the number of models locked in combat with this vehicle. On each roll of 6+ the unit suffers a MW), Distruption Pod/Decoy Launchers- either of those (5+ Invulnurable Save, or -1 on to-hit on the vehicle if it moved in its Movement phase, possibly with minimum moving distance), Automatic Repair System (roll a dice at the start of your turn, on a roll of 6+ the vehicle regains d3 wounds), possibly other Battlesuit systems with the same effect- Multi-Tracker, EWO, Velocity Tracker.

Relics:
- Puretide Engram Neurochip confirmed and exactly the same as CA
- Onager Gauntlet- Exchange all the wearer's attacks for a one to-hit roll at -1 WS. If it hits, the target unit suffers D3 MW, on an unmodified 6+ it suffers D6 MW.
- Iridium suit- 2+ save for a Battlesuit wearer and possibly other bonus (3+ Invuln? +1 Toughness? Some FnP effect?)
- Single Sensor type artifact callback to Multi-spectral Sensor Suite+Command and Control Node from 7th. Possibly once per game instead of shooting the wearer nominates a single T'au unit within 6" of him. That unit will gain some strong shooting buff (possibly re-rolls on all to-hits, or BS 2+?)

Stratagems:
- JSJ stratagem
- A unit type specific stratagem allowing a single unit to shoot twice (Broadsides or Riptides)
- Mobility stratagem for Infantry allowing them to reposition quickly, possibly Pathfinder specific (Move, Advance and fire as if stationary)
- Master of War Mont'ka and Kauyon repurposed as Stratagems- nominate a single Commander and everyone within 6" will gain the benefit.
- Team coordination stratagem- Nominate 3 units from your army that are within 6-12" from each other and they gain +1 BS.
- Overwatch Stratagem allowing a single unit that has fired a "For the Greater Good" Overwatch to fire it again
- Stratagem allowing a single Infantry unit (probably Breacher specific) to fire their Assault and Rapid Fire guns while locked in Close Combat.

That is all, ML table will probably stay unchanged, maybe they remove the Seeker Missile one, and/or change 1 and 5.

This might discourage people from Commander Spam and still want a Commander as a lynchpin and buffer for your army, but with point reduction of Crisis Suits, these should rightfully do the damage now. Adding some Stratagems for Infantry to promote playing more of them and buffing all tanks will allow us to play all parts of our army in concert as it should be.
Walk softly. And carry a big BRUSH.

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Arka0415
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#27 » Feb 05 2018 06:21

Roz'gyr wrote:Yay, a game. Well, it's been a few years since i have posted here on ATT, so why not.

...

This might discourage people from Commander Spam and still want a Commander as a lynchpin and buffer for your army, but with point reduction of Crisis Suits, these should rightfully do the damage now. Adding some Stratagems for Infantry to promote playing more of them and buffing all tanks will allow us to play all parts of our army in concert as it should be.

Nice, this is probably the most realistic one yet. I wouldn't be surprised if you end up winning, Roz'gyr!

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Temennigru
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#28 » Feb 05 2018 08:10

Arka0415 wrote:
Roz'gyr wrote:Yay, a game. Well, it's been a few years since i have posted here on ATT, so why not.

...

This might discourage people from Commander Spam and still want a Commander as a lynchpin and buffer for your army, but with point reduction of Crisis Suits, these should rightfully do the damage now. Adding some Stratagems for Infantry to promote playing more of them and buffing all tanks will allow us to play all parts of our army in concert as it should be.

Nice, this is probably the most realistic one yet. I wouldn't be surprised if you end up winning, Roz'gyr!

While I was hoping for more, this will probably be the way they take things, which is disappointing because I don't like our rules at all. They just don't feel unique (aside from savior protocols, which is actually pretty cool).

PS: A fun thing to notice about this post is you get to see what units people have tried playing in 8th. Roz'gyr has obviously played a lot of kroot :P

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Torch
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#29 » Feb 05 2018 08:52

Roz'gyr wrote:- Most probably we will not get the -1 to hit if fired at from 12" or more (Imagine with Ghostkeels and Stalthsuits)


It would be glorious! :evil:

Nymphomanius
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#30 » Feb 05 2018 09:06

Torch wrote:
Roz'gyr wrote:- Most probably we will not get the -1 to hit if fired at from 12" or more (Imagine with Ghostkeels and Stalthsuits)


It would be glorious! :evil:


What's that you want to overcharge your space marine plasma cannon against my ghostkeel? You'll need a 6 to hit then and btw you kill yourself on a 1,2,3+4 enjoy your reroll of 1's :D :fear: :dead:

God I hope we get that wargear back to force units to overheat their weapons I'm happy for relic or stratagem but relic is more likely.

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Arka0415
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#31 » Feb 05 2018 10:07

Nymphomanius wrote:
Torch wrote:
Roz'gyr wrote:- Most probably we will not get the -1 to hit if fired at from 12" or more (Imagine with Ghostkeels and Stalthsuits)


It would be glorious! :evil:


What's that you want to overcharge your space marine plasma cannon against my ghostkeel? You'll need a 6 to hit then and btw you kill yourself on a 1,2,3+4 enjoy your reroll of 1's :D :fear: :dead:

God I hope we get that wargear back to force units to overheat their weapons I'm happy for relic or stratagem but relic is more likely.

It's unlikely that we'll get this one, as high model-count armies (Tyranids and Guard) don't get it. I think GW wants us to be seen as a high model-count army, for good or for ill.

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Torch
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#32 » Feb 06 2018 12:19

Ad Mech got the -1 to hit. Where do they fall as far as model count goes? Because if it's similar to T'au it juuust might be possible. But in all honesty I seriously doubt it.

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SniperTau
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#33 » Feb 06 2018 12:26

It's about the same tbh. both armies have expensive main hqs, cheapish troops, and lots of big specialist choices. we have more variety though. I would say they have less models by only a few.

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Torch
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#34 » Feb 06 2018 01:00

I just want to clarify that I don't actually want a -1 to hit trait. It's my least favorite one because it doesn't make much sense and it feels sorta broken. So even if we did get it I would never use it. (Unless I want to mess with someone and run a full Stealth list :P ) The Guard traits were by far my favorite because they're nifty and fluffy without any one being too good.

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Temennigru
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#35 » Feb 06 2018 04:30

Arka0415 wrote:It's unlikely that we'll get this one, as high model-count armies (Tyranids and Guard) don't get it. I think GW wants us to be seen as a high model-count army, for good or for ill.


Definitely for ill. Crisis suits are 75 bucks and are worth ~75 points without weapons. A knight is 150 and worth ~400 points.
If they make it even more high model count with the current prices, they will literally bankrupt us.
At least the taunar is very efficient points/$ :P
Last edited by Temennigru on Feb 06 2018 04:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Roz'gyr
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Re: [GAME] Codex Predictions Pool

Post#36 » Feb 06 2018 04:33

Arka0415 wrote:Nice, this is probably the most realistic one yet. I wouldn't be surprised if you end up winning, Roz'gyr!


Well, this is all I am willing to bet on (Even if I used a lot of "maybe" or "possibly", I am commited to these tips for the purposes of this game), but I believe there will be more but nothing that I can predict. I just kept it realistic enough.

Temennigru wrote:While I was hoping for more, this will probably be the way they take things, which is disappointing because I don't like our rules at all. They just don't feel unique (aside from savior protocols, which is actually pretty cool).

PS: A fun thing to notice about this post is you get to see what units people have tried playing in 8th. Roz'gyr has obviously played a lot of kroot :P


Well I don't dislike our Index, but I know it is a bit underwhelming. Problem is that people usually want it all- Make it cheaper, make its weapons cheaper, give it new unique rules, the model's characteristics stronger and make its weapon better. If all of these were made so in new Codex... Well the given unit would become ridiculously strong and we're back to 7th and Riptide Wings... And this is what I didn't like and our community is still suffering backlash from it... T'au are the hardest fraction to balance, which is why we've seen in the past things like Fish of Fury alternating with later 4-5th edition being not very strong fraction (arguably weakest in 5th) and then 6th hit. Surprisingly just change to 6th was almost enough for us with introduction of Overwatch, with Codex came Riptide which gave us a few looks but only for a month or so, because then the Wraithknight came. :D and in 7th with formations and stuff we became cheese and I personally, even if I never played more than one Riptide in normal game (only played both of my Riptides once in Apocalypse), has been starting to get these looks from other players, and eye rolling when I brought out my army...

So I am hoping for a little bit more toned-down Codex. Somewhat middle tier maybe a bit higher, but just slight adjustments to some costs, Warlord Traits, Stratagems, Relics and minor rule tweaks we should be fine. and as I know GW they will go the lazy way instead of going back to drawing board and redesign us from basics into what was promised in old codicii. (paraphrasing):

Tau are a fraction on battlefield which excels at taking their enemies down with great firepower, while retaining enough durability to withstand the return fire and mobility to outmaneuver most of the opposing armies.

So we should be mix of mobility, firepower and durability (this was mostly about our tanks and Battlesuits). But the design notes might have changed for us in the meanwhile.

About the Kroot :D yes I play some, since to me a firing squad under 10 models is no firing squad. So I play two full 12 man Strike teams and thus need my 10 Kroot for Battalion and they just feel useless here since they only live for the first turn. And I was planning on painting my lots of Carnivores, Hounds, Krootoxen and a Shaper :D

Arka0415 wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:
Torch wrote:
It would be glorious! :evil:


What's that you want to overcharge your space marine plasma cannon against my ghostkeel? You'll need a 6 to hit then and btw you kill yourself on a 1,2,3+4 enjoy your reroll of 1's :D :fear: :dead:

God I hope we get that wargear back to force units to overheat their weapons I'm happy for relic or stratagem but relic is more likely.

It's unlikely that we'll get this one, as high model-count armies (Tyranids and Guard) don't get it. I think GW wants us to be seen as a high model-count army, for good or for ill.


Well AdMech only have one unit that has the ability natively (Sydonian Dragoon?) and there is a point in model count where it start saving too many chaff infantry from being downed by basic weapons. Other fractions that have it also don't have any very strong units with native -1 to-hit. We have very decent Elite Stealthsuits and Ghostkeel, which can natively gain -2 to-hit.

Well I have again produced a wall of text... Sorry if that irritates some of you.
Walk softly. And carry a big BRUSH.

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