Why I run large squads.

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SlipperyPeteED
Shas
Posts: 14

Why I run large squads.

Post#1 » Feb 02 2018 04:22

I understand the disadvantages surrounding large squads.
-Fewer drone slots
-more susceptible to morale

I do it because it makes it easier for Aura effects.
I play a gun line focused tau. I out two large packs of 12 fire warriors separated by an ethereal and a cadre fire blade. I do it like this so my gun line of 24 fire warriors can march up the center of the field while getting both the ethereal effects and the cadres.

Also a nice bonus means that sometimes i get to deploy first :P

Id love to hear your responses and criticisms and am absolutely open to changing up my tactics if i hear a compelling enough argument :D

Wes
Shas
Posts: 55

Re: Why I run large squads.

Post#2 » Feb 02 2018 06:09

What is your experience with the large gun lines in morale phase?

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 3123

Re: Why I run large squads.

Post#3 » Feb 02 2018 06:37

Wes wrote:What is your experience with the large gun lines in morale phase?

With an Ethereal and the Bonding Knife rule, here are the numbers for average additional losses:

1 model killed: 0
2 models killed: 0
3 model killed: 0
4 models killed: 0
5 models killed: 0.16
6 models killed: 0.5
7 models killed: 1
8 models killed: 1.67
9 models killed: 2
10 models killed: 1.67
11 models killed: 1
12 models killed: 0

Once you hit 8 models killed you stand a pretty good chance of losing the entire squad. Personally I've found that squads of 9 are very manageable for morale, but the full 12 is risky.

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Aspiring Commander
Shas'Saal
Posts: 67

Re: Why I run large squads.

Post#4 » Feb 02 2018 06:45

If I end up running large numbers of fire warriors, I always split them down into MSU now.

With the changes for deployment and going first in chapter approved, I don't feel there is as much pressure to get an army down in as few drops as possible.

Also It means that if you end up in a situation where a squad gets decimated (I.E., it meets wulfen in combat, gets shot on by rubric marines with flamers, inceptor marines drop from the sky) the most models you lose is 5. With a squad of 12, you'll likely see 6-8 die initially then 1 or 2 more running.

If you run 30 fire warriors in 6 five man squads with ethereal and fireblade support, this makes it incredibly easy to make 2 battalion detachments and get 6 easy command points.

The only downside with using lots of small units, and the general downside of tau so far, is playing any mission that uses kill points. All the small units of pathfinders and fire warriors + 2 man drone teams with commanders and stealth teams really add up.

Hope this all helps :)
'We act as one, and united we cannot fall'

-Commander Shadowsun

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Beerson
Shas'Saal
Posts: 214

Re: Why I run large squads.

Post#5 » Feb 02 2018 11:31

I think two big things that you are missing are CP and manta strike
During list building you want as many infantry squads as possible to get decent amount of CP, this is even more pressing with our new stratagem and the huge probability that we are getting "balanced" by stratagems in codex, which means that we will need every CP we can get to stay relevant
and you need many squads to allow for good amount of manta drops (if I remember correctly, only 50% of your squads can manta strike),

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CDR_Farsight
Shas'Saal
Posts: 260

Re: Why I run large squads.

Post#6 » Feb 02 2018 11:35

Aspiring Commander wrote:If I end up running large numbers of fire warriors, I always split them down into MSU now.

With the changes for deployment and going first in chapter approved, I don't feel there is as much pressure to get an army down in as few drops as possible.

Also It means that if you end up in a situation where a squad gets decimated (I.E., it meets wulfen in combat, gets shot on by rubric marines with flamers, inceptor marines drop from the sky) the most models you lose is 5. With a squad of 12, you'll likely see 6-8 die initially then 1 or 2 more running.

If you run 30 fire warriors in 6 five man squads with ethereal and fireblade support, this makes it incredibly easy to make 2 battalion detachments and get 6 easy command points.

The only downside with using lots of small units, and the general downside of tau so far, is playing any mission that uses kill points. All the small units of pathfinders and fire warriors + 2 man drone teams with commanders and stealth teams really add up.

Hope this all helps :)


I would LOVE to see a rule that drone squads under 4 models don't count for Kill Points!
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

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gunrock
Shas
Posts: 106

Re: Why I run large squads.

Post#7 » Feb 02 2018 07:19

SlipperyPeteED wrote:I understand the disadvantages surrounding large squads.
-Fewer drone slots
-more susceptible to morale

I do it because it makes it easier for Aura effects.
I play a gun line focused tau. I out two large packs of 12 fire warriors separated by an ethereal and a cadre fire blade. I do it like this so my gun line of 24 fire warriors can march up the center of the field while getting both the ethereal effects and the cadres.

Also a nice bonus means that sometimes i get to deploy first :P

Id love to hear your responses and criticisms and am absolutely open to changing up my tactics if i hear a compelling enough argument :D


I'm not sure your aura argument is necessarily true. Fireblade and Ethereal both want to be center of two minimum squads (or 6 man, max 7), which puts them in range of everything. This also only becomes an issue after you've gone 4 rows deep. The opposite might actually be true as a 10 man squad has to stay in 2'' coherency.

Image

Here's a photo of my infantry mounted to rulers which shows the distancing. As you can see with two HQ's cover everything within 4 rows of themselves without any issues. the firewarriors are exactly 2'' from eachother (max unit coherency distance) which is just a bit more then the ethereal needs. On the whole I think minimum squads are just a lot more menuverable, they also give you more control of firing order which is important with markerlights.

Image
(minor update) - Here's where the outer bounds of two HQ's at 6 inch radius are, basically the 5th column should be 5 units, and the outer limits you can fit one six man squad and 5 man squad. These are spaced at 1 and 1/4'' between columns so you may be able to squeeze an extra infantry in.

Thoughts?
All the rivers run into the sea, Yet the sea is not full; Unto the place whither the rivers go, Thither they go again.

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