I'm another new guy!

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Zadocfish
Shas
Posts: 12

I'm another new guy!

Post#1 » Nov 07 2017 11:33

Hi! I just recently got into WH40K, after a long absence from the game.

I got into Tau because it's always been my favorite faction, and now I'm lucid enough to play actual games with them.

Also, drones. They're like Skinks; crazy tactical flexibility and fairly sturdy for relatively low cost, on adorable bodies. I love them so. They're one of the things that got me into the faction.

I have a SC box, I should be getting a box of Stealth Suits, a package of Pathfinders, and a Commander real soon (I'm using them as incentives for myself for a project) and... possibly another SC box, but frankly the problem is that that would only put me at 1250 and I'd rather be at either 1000 or 1500. So, maybe another box of Stealth Suits and enough bits to turn my Crisis team into all-Flamers? Eh... I don't know, just yet.

Anyways, glad to be here! I hope to learn how to use this tricky army a bit better.
I am a Christian.

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 175

Re: I'm another new guy!

Post#2 » Nov 08 2017 12:50

Flamer crisis suits are good at barbecuing infantry and can do some damage to vechiles. The problem with heatwave suits is they are best for infantry units using a stealth suit/homing beacon delivery system. That's a 317 point investment to nuke infantry.
I use my crisis suits as tank hunters. At 593 points I can pretty much nuke a tank on the spot.
My two teams strike close together to share the one dc model
5 suits with 2 cyclic ion blasters 1ats
1 suit with1 ats, 1 cyclic 1 drone controller
9 marker drones.

This is my new favorite crisis suit set up. It offers 11.4 damage on average to vechiles in one round of shooting (+7 toughness +3 save targets) @ markerlights ~5. They also shoot infantry well. You may need to proxy, buy, or make cyclic ion blasters though.
Fusion blaster commanders are for more efficient at tank hunting. But I like the suits still since the drone marker light package and only own one regular commander

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: I'm another new guy!

Post#3 » Nov 08 2017 02:31

I love my Flamer Crisis. One of my favorite units currently. In casual games you don't even necessarily have to use the Stealth Suit+Homing Beacon combo.
However what I consider a must-have for that unit is taking max Shield Drones so they actually survive in the middle of the enemy (and on their way towards it). Such a unit is incredibly durable and can even tie up lots of enemy units so they can't shoot at you in return before jumping away and keep shooting next turn. Did I mention how great Shield Drones are for soaking up Overwatch? :D

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1944

Re: I'm another new guy!

Post#4 » Nov 08 2017 02:54

Lostroninsoul wrote:Flamer crisis suits are good at barbecuing infantry and can do some damage to vechiles. The problem with heatwave suits is they are best for infantry units using a stealth suit/homing beacon delivery system. That's a 317 point investment to nuke infantry.

It's true that this is a powerful combo, but it costs 365 points, not 317. You can't forget to bring Gun Drones and/or Shield Drones.

Lostroninsoul wrote:I use my crisis suits as tank hunters. At 593 points I can pretty much nuke a tank on the spot.
My two teams strike close together to share the one dc model
5 suits with 2 cyclic ion blasters 1ats
1 suit with1 ats, 1 cyclic 1 drone controller
9 marker drones.

I'm sure this is a great squad, but it's far too expensive. For 593 points you could buy many different units which would be better at hunting tanks. XV8s w/ Fusion Blasters, Commanders w/ Fusion Blasters, the Stormsurge, and the Y'vahra are better options. In fact, CIB XV8s are good, but not great, at tank-hunting I'd say. Use your Fusion Blasters as alpha strike weapons, and save the CIB XV8s for backup damage. Here are some comparisons:

1. Group #1: 1 unit of 5x XV8s w/ 9x CIBs, 5x ATS, Drone Controller; 9x Marker Drones (593)
vs. Rhino: 12.4 damage
vs. Leman Russ: 9.3 damage
vs. Land Raider: 7 damage

2. Group #2: 2 units of 3x XV8s w/ 6x Fusion Blasters; 6x Gun Drones (600)
vs. Rhino: 15.8 damage
vs. Leman Russ: 12.3 damage
vs. Land Raider: 9.7 damage

3. Group 3: 3 units of Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (528)
vs. Rhino: 23.3 damage
vs. Leman Russ: 17.5 damage
vs. Land Raider: 14.6 damage

Once you consider the fact that Group #1 is re-rolling ones and adding 1 to its hit rolls (due to the Markerlights), and that Group #2 and Group #3 aren't, you realize how much stronger the latter two squads are. With Markerlight bonuses, Group #2 and Group #3 (which are already stronger than Group #1) outperform Group #1 by an even greater margin.

Now, if you come across weak transports you can easily destroy them with CIBs. However, CIBs excel not because they can "nuke" tanks (they can't) but because they can competently engage any target.

I love CIBs, they're my favorite weapon in the Index! However, I wouldn't endorse them as an anti-tank alpha strike weapon.

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Harkus959
Shas'Saal
Posts: 131

Re: I'm another new guy!

Post#5 » Nov 08 2017 05:34

This is possibly the most active membership profile thread I've ever seen.

If you're looking to expand consider holding out until December and then picking up the battle force kit:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26755

It gives you most of what you'd get in start collecting plus a bunch extra, and saves you even more money compared to buying individual kits.

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Zadocfish
Shas
Posts: 12

Re: I'm another new guy!

Post#6 » Nov 08 2017 05:39

Huh. So, Fusions aren't totally useless on Crisis Suits? Sweet. I need a tank-hunting unit. Maybe a group of 3 x3 Flamers + 6 Gun Drones, and another of 3 x3 Fusions + Gun Drones?

Anyways, thanks for all the math!

As for Shield Drones... eh, Gun Drones are only 1/3rd worse at re-directing hits (no FNP) than Shields, can screen just as effectively, and add a GARBAGE TON of shots to the damage pool, especially with a Controller somewhere replacing a weapon. Shield Drones are more survivable, sure, but they can't actually hurt things, which means they aren't as flexible. I want this army to be as tactically flexible as humanly possible (hence making a unit of 6 independent shield drones; whatever needs some cover, they can float around and provide it). I think for a dedicated "screw this target in particular" unit like Crisis Teams, the additional 24 shots are too good to pass up... plus, the Gun Drones can then converge with a couple of Striker teams and a Fireblade and just destroy anything smaller than a Carnifex that tries to get too close.
I am a Christian.

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Zadocfish
Shas
Posts: 12

Re: I'm another new guy!

Post#7 » Nov 08 2017 05:40

Harkus959 wrote:This is possibly the most active membership profile thread I've ever seen.


People really seem to like debating unit effectiveness here, which is awesome. The more of that, the better for everyone.
I am a Christian.

User avatar
Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: I'm another new guy!

Post#8 » Nov 08 2017 05:51

Zadocfish wrote:Huh. So, Fusions aren't totally useless on Crisis Suits? Sweet. I need a tank-hunting unit. Maybe a group of 3 x3 Flamers + 6 Gun Drones, and another of 3 x3 Fusions + Gun Drones?

Anyways, thanks for all the math!

As for Shield Drones... eh, Gun Drones are only 1/3rd worse at re-directing hits (no FNP) than Shields, can screen just as effectively, and add a GARBAGE TON of shots to the damage pool, especially with a Controller somewhere replacing a weapon. Shield Drones are more survivable, sure, but they can't actually hurt things, which means they aren't as flexible. I want this army to be as tactically flexible as humanly possible (hence making a unit of 6 independent shield drones; whatever needs some cover, they can float around and provide it). I think for a dedicated "screw this target in particular" unit like Crisis Teams, the additional 24 shots are too good to pass up... plus, the Gun Drones can then converge with a couple of Striker teams and a Fireblade and just destroy anything smaller than a Carnifex that tries to get too close.

It also means that Gun Drones are a viable target to shoot at with anti-infantry weaponry and are likely to die before they can tank Lascannon shots or similar for your Crisis.
Shield Drones are one of the worst targets to shoot at. Opponents tend to ignore them because they do "nothing" and by doing that you can do much more tactically with them plus it keeps the Crisis save. It's fun to see Lascannon shots get swallowed up by a single 5+ FnP. The face on your opponent when you do that a few times is priceless. ;)

Also of course Fusion Blaster Crisis aren't useless. Just not very cost efficient compared to other choices.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1944

Re: I'm another new guy!

Post#9 » Nov 08 2017 06:34

Zadocfish wrote:Huh. So, Fusions aren't totally useless on Crisis Suits? Sweet. I need a tank-hunting unit. Maybe a group of 3 x3 Flamers + 6 Gun Drones, and another of 3 x3 Fusions + Gun Drones?

Anyways, thanks for all the math!

You'll find that Fusion Blasters are a powerful choice in terms of damage, but they're certainly expensive. In my opinion, and in the opinions of a lot of the players here, triple Fusion Blasters is just too expensive- I don't want to load 360+ points on a squad with BS4+. So, people go with two Fusion Blasters each, then add a cheap upgrade in the 3rd slot. Flamers, Shield Generators, or (depending on meta) Velocity Trackers can be good here.

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