Modeling Tau Females - a discussion

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Glarblar
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Modeling Tau Females - a discussion

Post#1 » Aug 18 2017 09:36

This is a hybrid between modeling and lore question:

I've got modeling a couple of Tau Females on my to-do list. I think we've all seen the Weeb female tau and I don't think thats very canon. I'm curious how people think tau reproduce as that could lead into what they look like or how you model them. They do exist in the Fire caste as seen by Shadowsun.

I'd like to do a variable armor to indicate females, just some small changes like what the military does. But, that would assume that Tau have enlarged mammories and give live birth, where I think they would most likely lay eggs.

I understand this is a bit of an odd topic.

R.D.
Shas'La
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Re: Modeling Tau Females - a discussion

Post#2 » Aug 18 2017 09:47

I just use the female Tau heads that come with some recent model kits, and paint then a shade of cyan as opposed to the dark blue I do males, so they stand out. :)

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Glarblar
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Re: Modeling Tau Females - a discussion

Post#3 » Aug 18 2017 09:54

R.D. wrote:I just use the female Tau heads that come with some recent model kits, and paint then a shade of cyan as opposed to the dark blue I do males, so they stand out. :)


Thats a great idea, and makes sense. I don't like using head so it wouldn't work for me :-/

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El'mo
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Re: Modeling Tau Females - a discussion

Post#4 » Aug 18 2017 01:03

In reality there is not a great difference in body armour shapes between male and female soldiers - forget the standard fantasy type highly stylised female chest armour...have a look at the armour of Brienne of Tarth (GoT) for a more realistic example.

The only real difference is that human females have wider hips and are usually shorter which is very hard to show on a standard 28mm model.

The T'au are helped out here by the facial vent difference between the male and female heads so this is the easiest way to show T'au female troops.

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Glarblar
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Re: Modeling Tau Females - a discussion

Post#5 » Aug 18 2017 01:10

El'mo wrote:In reality there is not a great difference in body armour shapes between male and female soldiers -


http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2013/09/26/new-body-armor-women-military/

Agreed, I was planning on small changes to the chestpiece

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Froglift
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Re: Modeling Tau Females - a discussion

Post#6 » Aug 18 2017 01:54

I think that the current models can be either Male or Female without having to do any modeling, but I see what you are saying. From what I've been searching it looks like the mate pretty much like we do.

From some forum after I did a quick search:
1:The female Tau are given a set time kind of like a schedual of when they are fertile. On this schedual they may go and mate with a firewarrior either at random simply to have the child or with their signifigant other. This is condidered taking leave and Tau pregnancy is very short.

2: Once the baby is born it is with the parents for a brief time before they are redeployed back into combat. As soon as that happens the baby is taken into the custody of a type of 'trainer' or academy. Think Jedi. The Tau family remain in contact but may not see eachother for several Tau'cyr at a time.


This guy says that you can find this info in the novel Fire Warrior. So hopefully not eggs. Please. No eggs.

Moedeling I think you are very limited. I am using this model as a Fireblade. I like it because it's not as over sexualized as everything else on the site.

If there was a way to make the models slightly slimmer I think that would help in distinguishing them. Maybe markings on the helmet?
We are men of action, lies do not become us.

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thesnailmaster
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Re: Modeling Tau Females - a discussion

Post#7 » Aug 18 2017 03:39

Personally I enjoy the fact that T'au troops can be either gender without it really needing any adaptions to the models, its also great that GW have started including female heads in the Fire Warrior kits, as well as the ghostkeel pilot.

Basing the T'au fluff of not keeping families together in a way we are used to, I don't think they would have mammary glands. Honestly that is something I'd actually be hopeful for, I am sick of alien species just being like humans/mammals.

Also none of the new kits that have female heads have a torso that you could say s specifically designed for it, Shadowsun, the first female tau mini, doesn't really have anything that different about her except the nasal passage which is now the standard thing.

And finally just as an extra thing, I really despise those sexualized third party mini's, I understand that they are just appealing to the anime / giant battlesuit crowd who also play T'au but its just super lazy.

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Shas'O Bentu'nan
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Re: Modeling Tau Females - a discussion

Post#8 » Aug 18 2017 04:49

thesnailmaster wrote:Personally I enjoy the fact that T'au troops can be either gender without it really needing any adaptions to the models, its also great that GW have started including female heads in the Fire Warrior kits, as well as the ghostkeel pilot.

Basing the T'au fluff of not keeping families together in a way we are used to, I don't think they would have mammary glands. Honestly that is something I'd actually be hopeful for, I am sick of alien species just being like humans/mammals.

Also none of the new kits that have female heads have a torso that you could say s specifically designed for it, Shadowsun, the first female tau mini, doesn't really have anything that different about her except the nasal passage which is now the standard thing.

And finally just as an extra thing, I really despise those sexualized third party mini's, I understand that they are just appealing to the anime / giant battlesuit crowd who also play T'au but its just super lazy.


They may have mammary glands, as they are described as mammalian (literally 'with mammaries'). That said the tau wouldnt nessisary select mates on large glands like humans did (thus pushing evolution in that direction). So they could be small and unlikely affect their figure much less armor shape.
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Panzer
Shas'La
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Re: Modeling Tau Females - a discussion

Post#9 » Aug 18 2017 05:00

It also wouldn't really matter since a woman in full combat gear doesn't really look much different than a man in full combat gear. Maybe a bit smaller but there are also short men and all GW models are one standard size anyway. ;)

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Kael'yn
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Re: Modeling Tau Females - a discussion

Post#10 » Aug 19 2017 05:12

Shas'O Bentu'nan wrote:
thesnailmaster wrote:Personally I enjoy the fact that T'au troops can be either gender without it really needing any adaptions to the models, its also great that GW have started including female heads in the Fire Warrior kits, as well as the ghostkeel pilot.

Basing the T'au fluff of not keeping families together in a way we are used to, I don't think they would have mammary glands. Honestly that is something I'd actually be hopeful for, I am sick of alien species just being like humans/mammals.

Also none of the new kits that have female heads have a torso that you could say s specifically designed for it, Shadowsun, the first female tau mini, doesn't really have anything that different about her except the nasal passage which is now the standard thing.

And finally just as an extra thing, I really despise those sexualized third party mini's, I understand that they are just appealing to the anime / giant battlesuit crowd who also play T'au but its just super lazy.


They may have mammary glands, as they are described as mammalian (literally 'with mammaries'). That said the tau wouldnt nessisary select mates on large glands like humans did (thus pushing evolution in that direction). So they could be small and unlikely affect their figure much less armor shape.


Specially with human being AFAIK the only mammals with visible mammaries without lactating needs.
It could be easily imagined than Tau females get visible boobs only when having babies fo feed, so clearly outside of battlefield.

Please GW no tau laying eggs ... We have kroots to do that !
But it seems unlikely given the fact that Tau does not seems to have a big population growth, so tau child are few per breed and need to be cared for a longer time. Females are also under represented in current Tau canon.
So internal pregnancy with baby caring is probably a tau feature (mammal or marsupial if you don't like eggs, or shark/platypus-like if you prefer eggs).

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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
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Re: Modeling Tau Females - a discussion

Post#11 » Aug 19 2017 08:26

Kael'yn wrote:Specially with human being AFAIK the only mammals with visible mammaries without lactating needs.
It could be easily imagined than Tau females get visible boobs only when having babies fo feed, so clearly outside of battlefield.

Please GW no tau laying eggs ... We have kroots to do that !
But it seems unlikely given the fact that Tau does not seems to have a big population growth, so tau child are few per breed and need to be cared for a longer time. Females are also under represented in current Tau canon.
So internal pregnancy with baby caring is probably a tau feature (mammal or marsupial if you don't like eggs, or shark/platypus-like if you prefer eggs).



I don't think GW has given any indication that Tau are mammals... so they could be ... or not... But even then, human (female) breasts are result of sexual selection&genetic drift, as you said they are almost unnoticeable in other mammals. Other things to consider is that tau bio-science is probably advanced enough so they could "clone" breast milk so it's the same or even higher quality than "the original"(even considering immune system specificity, skin to skin contact, etc.), so the mother would strictly not be needed for it, and any hormonal changes could be altered so she could return to active military service sooner. Humans are also reaching some evolutionary limits related to reproduction... Due to the pelvis "hole" size and large brain, human babies are born very early compared to most (or all?) other mammals, Tau might have different bone structure and thus avoiding this limitation, allowing for longer pregnancy, being more developed after birth...

Ye I too don't like the idea of tau laying eggs... bleh... But I vaguely remember that each tau pregnancy consists of 3 offsprings of the same gender. This would indicate better breeding capability than what humans have, at least in fire/earth castes where the involvement of parents is mostly finished after birth. If low birth numbers (whatever that would mean in this context) were to be observed, without resources being thin, it would most likely be by choice. I mean... even humans can apparently get from 7 million to 180 million in a 100 years while being dirt poor.

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TauMan
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Re: Modeling Tau Females - a discussion

Post#12 » Aug 19 2017 11:42

Calling it now, this discussion has officially "gone off the rails" :dead:

This was suppose to be a discussion about "Modeling Tau Females" not "Tau Physiology and Reproduction". If you want to start a discussion thread on that topic, then please feel free to do so.


Now, back to the discussion topic.

Please note the two following Tau heads.
Image
Note they are very close in design, the only difference really being the nasal silt. However, note the shape of both heads are rectangular. Contrast this to the shape of the head of the only known Tau "female" - Commander Shadowsun; which is oval shaped.

Image
Note, unlike to the two previous examples, the shape of Shadowsun's head is oval shaped (true of the model as well).

If your ignore the nasal slit, then the shape of the head would tell you whether the model was male or female. The first two heads are rectangular and therefore male, and since Shadowsun's face is oval shaped, that she is female. But when you think about judging sex by the shape of nasal slit that would like saying you can tell a person's sex by shape of their nose. Which if you think about it, is not a sound way of determining sex!

Conclusion: It's not the shape of the nasal slit, it's the shape of the face that matters.


Modeling Female Tau Heads
Option #1: Female Kadesh models from Zealot Miniatures.
Pros: You can buy complete models - head, torso, arms and legs; or just the heads. The heads come with different hairstyles, and all have the "Y" that some of you think is "female".
Cons: If have to with the complete models, as the Zealot's Kadesh miniatures are smaller than GW Tau models. A Kadesh heads will look out of place on a GW torso, and a GW head or helmet will look too big on a Kadesh torso. The Kadesh female torsos (see website) are better than the earlier versions; which where heavy on the "booby armour". Then newer versions are still "female" in design, but now look more like Tau body armour.

Option #2
Modeling them yourself.
Here I've never that though there are some members of A.T.T. who have done modifications of Tau heads. Also, I've seen on the internet other people do conversions from other models to make Tau female heads. One guy used Dark Elf, Wood Elf, and Human heads from Warhammer Fantasy, and shaving off the noses. Anyway, as I haven't done this I can any more.

Is there someone here who has?

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Jefffar
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Re: Modeling Tau Females - a discussion

Post#13 » Aug 19 2017 02:58

While the angle both heads are being held at makes them seem rectangular, there is a definite taper to the jaw on the head with the "Y slit" that is missing fom the head with the "I slit".

That taper appears to be in Shadowsun's jaw line as well.

So it could be that a combination of "Y-slit" and tapered jaw are indications of the female of the species.

Both of those would need to present then in a model for it to be 'female'.

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Panzer
Shas'La
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Re: Modeling Tau Females - a discussion

Post#14 » Aug 19 2017 06:29

TauMan wrote:Note, unlike to the two previous examples, the shape of Shadowsun's head is oval shaped (true of the model as well).

If your ignore the nasal slit, then the shape of the head would tell you whether the model was male or female. The first two heads are rectangular and therefore male, and since Shadowsun's face is oval shaped, that she is female. But when you think about judging sex by the shape of nasal slit that would like saying you can tell a person's sex by shape of their nose. Which if you think about it, is not a sound way of determining sex!

With all due respect....that's dumb.

Determining an aliens race sex by the shape of their head is not better than telling their sex by an obvious difference as their nasal slit.
In fact it's even more ridiculous considering that their nasal slit is an obviously alien feature there to distuinguish T'au and that head shapes are completely different even among the same sex as far as we know. Judging something just by Shadowsun is pretty ridiculous as well since it's a laughably small sample size.

No clue why you are trying to ridicule official fluff that hard but it's not going to work this time.

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SinisterSamurai
Kor'La
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Re: Modeling Tau Females - a discussion

Post#15 » Aug 21 2017 02:25

TauMan wrote:If your ignore the nasal slit, then the shape of the head would tell you whether the model was male or female. The first two heads are rectangular and therefore male, and since Shadowsun's face is oval shaped, that she is female. But when you think about judging sex by the shape of nasal slit that would like saying you can tell a person's sex by shape of their nose. Which if you think about it, is not a sound way of determining sex!

Conclusion: It's not the shape of the nasal slit, it's the shape of the face that matters.

Back when the new kits came out, White Dwarf specifically identified the new heads as female. I'm not opposed to head ovaling, but I think that is simply due to the artist style.
Shadowsun also has longer hair than most Tau, but the cultural significance of that is unknown.

Zealot Minis offers "Female Kadesh Heads"
Which have both the Y slit, ovalish heads, and trendy hairstyles.
http://zealotminiatures.com/zealot-shop ... ry=6272033

They also offer "Kadesh Female" torsos, arms, and full kits. They still exhibit a large breast curve, but are otherwise more tasteful than Wargame Exclusive.
On the downside, their minis don't bite GW's Tau style as accurately, so the armor might stand out a bit, and they look a little taller. (Sexual dimorphism?) I haven't seen any good reviews, though, so i can't attest the quality, and the scale issue might just be in my head.

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Panzer
Shas'La
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Re: Modeling Tau Females - a discussion

Post#16 » Aug 21 2017 02:56

SinisterSamurai wrote:
TauMan wrote:If your ignore the nasal slit, then the shape of the head would tell you whether the model was male or female. The first two heads are rectangular and therefore male, and since Shadowsun's face is oval shaped, that she is female. But when you think about judging sex by the shape of nasal slit that would like saying you can tell a person's sex by shape of their nose. Which if you think about it, is not a sound way of determining sex!

Conclusion: It's not the shape of the nasal slit, it's the shape of the face that matters.

Back when the new kits came out, White Dwarf specifically identified the new heads as female. I'm not opposed to head ovaling, but I think that is simply due to the artist style.
Shadowsun also has longer hair than most Tau, but the cultural significance of that is unknown.

Zealot Minis offers "Female Kadesh Heads"
Which have both the Y slit, ovalish heads, and trendy hairstyles.
http://zealotminiatures.com/zealot-shop ... ry=6272033

They also offer "Kadesh Female" torsos, arms, and full kits. They still exhibit a large breast curve, but are otherwise more tasteful than Wargame Exclusive.
On the downside, their minis don't bite GW's Tau style as accurately, so the armor might stand out a bit, and they look a little taller. (Sexual dimorphism?) I haven't seen any good reviews, though, so i can't attest the quality, and the scale issue might just be in my head.

Ah good to hear that it even got mentioned in a White Dwarf. TauMans logic was pretty weird to begin with anyway.

Also to the Kadesh models, I think I remember another user confirming that they are a bit smaller than GW T'au models so just exchanging the heads looks a bit weird (it was about using female heads when it came up iirc).

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