How do you actually deal with AV14 ?

A review of past Tactics by commanders during the First, Second, Third & Fourth Phase Expansion.
User avatar
555ea
Shas'Saal
Posts: 35

How do you actually deal with AV14 ?

Post#1 » Apr 12 2017 09:07

Hi all!

There are lots and lots heavy armored vehicles in my meta, ork wagons, land raiders, necron monoliths, leman russes ...
As HRR are S8 i really struggle with opening AV14 metal boxes. At a 1500 points game having 2 railsides and a riptide I almost never succeed opening them during turn 1. And during turn 2 the transports actually succeed at delivering their close combat filling wiping everything out.

What are the options available ?
3 Railside squadron, possibly with a Longstrike (no target locks removes flexibility and the point cost is too high) ?
3 Ion riptides hoping for a triple nova charge for s9 ap2 ?
Hope for 6s with lots of ion weapons ?
Suicide jump with lots of fusion blasters and then die from the content of the transport ?

I'd like something reliable, able to glance to death, something like HYMPs but S8 :sad:

User avatar
Unicornsilovethem
Shas'Saal
Posts: 278

Re: How do you actually deal with AV14 ?

Post#2 » Apr 12 2017 09:31

Depends a bit on the target. Does it have 2 or 8 hull points? Does it have AV14 in all directions?

For the heaviest targets I use Gunfort, Y'vahra and Stormsurge D missiles. For smaller targets, suicide Fusion suits. Don't be afraid to lose the suits to whatever comes out from the transports - it means they didn't reach their intended targets. If it has AV10 in the rear, Burst cannons do the job easily.

If you know you're up against a bunch of Leman Russes, go for the triple Longstrike with railguns. They'll blow one up every shooting phase. The unit costs a good chunk, but can quickly pay for itself due to how quickly it removes enemy vehicles.

User avatar
Mirth
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 83

Re: How do you actually deal with AV14 ?

Post#3 » Apr 12 2017 11:31

The Y'vahra is probably the single-best anti-armor unit we have, barring none, and a single one of them will tear through single Land Raiders and such with little problem (as long as it is properly supported). Two of them make armor lists cry. :)

Unicorn is definitely right- the Stormsurge will put some serious hurt on heavy-armored targets, as will a properly manned Gunfort. Only thing I can think of for effectively dealing with the armor is actually to avoid it- if they aren't AV14 on all sides, then the OSC with three Ghoskeels and target locks will shred a couple of tanks per-turn, but they can't do too much other than run up and hit Land Raiders and Monoliths.

The fusion suicide squad is effective as well- losing a suit to take down a transport (particularly if it is an expensive transport) is definitely worth it, as, for example, terminators with THammers that have to walk are not nearly as scary as Terminators that get to come charging out of a Land Raider. ;)
When we forget we are soldiers, we stop fighting.

User avatar
Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3159

Re: How do you actually deal with AV14 ?

Post#4 » Apr 12 2017 12:30

You shouldn't think about Rail weaponry when it comes to anti tank tbh. They are really lacking there. ^^

Fusion Blaster is the way to go. Drop some Crisis and melta them away. If you don't want to risk too many points in one go and raise the chance for them to arrive use multiple double FB monats instead of one big unit. It's okay when they die after doing their job.

Other ways are the Yvahra with its sweet Haywire weapon or the Optimised Stealth Cadre against vehicle with weak rear armor.

User avatar
nic
Kroot'La
Kroot'La
Posts: 766

Re: How do you actually deal with AV14 ?

Post#5 » Apr 12 2017 02:42

Waiting for Crisis suits to arrive from reserves is an issue if you are dealing with AV14 transports.

In that case one of the things to consider would be Piranha armed with Fusion Blasters in a Hunter Cadre. Zoom them 30" across the table using Ambushes & Feints to get into Melta range, apply markerlights and see what happens. In case of disastrous dice you have at least put some blocking units in the way so the transports cannot get close to anything more valuable.

A properly manned Gunfort will usually stop a Land Raider or Monolith in its tracks - either by exploding it or by Stunning or Immobilising. You would actually be pretty unlucky to fail to get at least one of those results. Once it is stopped you can destroy it at leisure as S10 Armourbane will cut through AV14.

User avatar
Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3159

Re: How do you actually deal with AV14 ?

Post#6 » Apr 12 2017 02:52

nic wrote:Waiting for Crisis suits to arrive from reserves is an issue if you are dealing with AV14 transports.

That's true. Hence why I recommend using multiple monats instead of a big unit. It's much easier to fail a single 3+ roll than three 3+ rolls. ;)

Anyway, I love the Infiltration Cadre so I usually don't have the issue of reserves arriving late. 9 out of 10 times Pathfinder with Rail Rifles are just too juicy a target to not trigger the Intervention Request Beacons....and if not the Pathfinder then the Piranha with Fusion Blaster. :D

ChazzAtron
Shas'Saal
Posts: 8

Re: How do you actually deal with AV14 ?

Post#7 » Apr 12 2017 04:41

I concur with Panzer regarding Railsides against AV 14... it's just not enough dakka. Against something like a Monolith/Obelisk that can regen HP with Living Metal, you've gotta sling more than 1 shot at it.

I recently played a 1000pt game against my friend, him using a base Necron Decurion detachment or whatever it is (for the 4+ Reanimation Protocols) and took the Obelisk auxilary choice with 1 Monolith. Sure half his army was in 2 vehicles, but 2 hard to kill vehicles.

I was expecting a single Monolith (I know my friend too well), but not the Obelisk which has I think 2 more HP. Killing it in a single shooting phase at 1000pts is difficult when you know it's coming, and really hard when you don't.

My anti-armor was my Farsight Bomb with 4 Twin Fusion Blaster Crisis Suits and a 'Vre acting as a low-rent Buffmander. Sadly it deepstruck a turn later than the Monolith/Obelisk, but it did explode the Monolith creeping up on the 4 VP objective.

The Obelisk wiped out 2 small units of Crisis Suits I was planning to use as long range shooting objective holders, and tried to go after my Ion/FB Riptide (with Stims). I ALMOST took out the Obelisk before the game timed out on turn 6, with some lucky Nova FB double taps and (yes) a smash attack. I would have taken it out if it weren't for Living Metal healing a HP. Still, I punched it so there's that. Riptide still had 2 wounds left at the end; considering the amount of shots it was taking from the Obelisk and other units, I'm pretty happy with that.

Lessons learned? You can't be super sneaky when it comes to AV 14 all around. The Farsight Bomb was about all I could muster, praying it could get one than hopefully survive to get the other. Since it came out later than I hoped, the 2 were split up more than I liked so I decided to go after his HQ that was closer. The more pew pew the better; I've already planned ahead for future games with him and dealing with the floating pyramids. Mostly it involves more fusion blasters, among other things.

A PEN/Farsight Dawnblade Contingent would help for armor pen re-rolls, especially with the sheer amount of 18" melta that Tau can bring to bear. Also good against regular Necrons, and their annoying Reanimation Protocols. JSJ to block line of sight and melt them.
With great mustache comes great responsibility

User avatar
materpillar
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 156

Re: How do you actually deal with AV14 ?

Post#8 » Apr 12 2017 08:00

My standard operating procedure for landraiders is to ignore them and feed whatever comes out of them a few squads of kroot or fire warriors while I win elsewhere. I've found this to be more effective than killing them for the most part.

If they really must die though. Y'vahras as previously stated will utterly melt them, with like hilarious ease. I imagine a stormsurge would destroy most any av 14 with a wave of D missiles.

For a less cheesy route deepstriking fusion blaster crisis suits is probably the only other way to consistently pop them in one round of shooting.

Longstrike in a hammerhead also does an ok job of dealing with them.


Just slap Fusion Blasters (stealth, piranhas, etc) on stuff and shoot it until it dies. Also if landraiders are empty go in and smash them with ghostkeels and riptides. I've killed a couple of landraiders that way.
----- Akul Contingent -----
Engagement Results 54-18-8

Jacket
Shas'Saal
Posts: 358

Re: How do you actually deal with AV14 ?

Post#9 » Apr 13 2017 12:10

A Ta'unar would work. Hahah. If a bit overkill.

User avatar
AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 793

Re: How do you actually deal with AV14 ?

Post#10 » Apr 13 2017 06:21

Y'Varha is probably your best bet. It has haywire attacks which give you a high change to glance the vehicle to death no matter their armor facing. Followed by Storm Surge and Crisis Fusion Suits, in the order. Keep in mind that the Y'Varha is currently considered to be in the experimental rules, so it may not be allowed in tournament play.
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

User avatar
Unicornsilovethem
Shas'Saal
Posts: 278

Re: How do you actually deal with AV14 ?

Post#11 » Apr 15 2017 09:41

Another thing that hasn't been brought up - are you facing superheavy vehicles or not? They ignore all penetration results except for Explode!, and those only remove a further D3 hull points rather than blow the entire thing up.

Against non-superheavies, attacking with AP1 weapons (Fusion, Railguns) usually makes a big difference since for every Penetrating hit you get 1/3 chance to kill the vehicle outright. Against superheavies, AP1/2 doesn't make that big of a deal, and you might have better results with massed fire. It's why Y'vahra is so good despite its AP3. With maximum luck you can get 6 S8 hits, plus 6 haywires.

If you're up against a superheavy with poor rear armor, e.g. a Baneblade with 9HP and rear AV12, Fusion is not that much better than CIBs. A single Fusion hit takes (prob of rolling exactly 4)+(prob of rolling 5+)*(1+1/3*D3) hull points, which is 0.0833+(0.8333)*(1+1/3*2) =~ 1.472 in expectation. A single CIB hit takes 1/3 hull points, and you shoot three of them giving 1 hull point. So CIB hits are worse (obviously) against the Baneblade, but not by that much. And they have better range and are better against the rest of the army.

User avatar
azlanpower
Shas'Saal
Posts: 87
Contact:

Re: How do you actually deal with AV14 ?

Post#12 » Apr 16 2017 09:11

Good topic.
Recently had an Apocalypse game with oponent using combined Eldar and necrons VS Tau and Imperial knights. Really2 tough battle.

Necrons itself 1 obelisk and 1 tessaract is one of the main problems as all around AV14 AND living metal!

I did try it. Yep. RIPTIDE WING novacharge IA to str 9 ordnance...2 rounds of shootings from riptide hailfire.....well didnt do sh*t! We're talking super heavies here. All those wasted shots str9 ordnance.

LUCKILY, i have TAUNAR SUPREMACY at my disposal :) Hes the one that bring them down. D blast.

So my conclusion vs AV14 superheavies is Taunar. Multiple str 9 or 8 shots, with ordance or melta(which doesnt affect superheavies) wont do nothin but drop a few HP at best.

Another option is stormsurge. Bring the Heavy Retribution cadre. BUT bring drone net as well coz you those markerlights to boost to str D and up yr BS. At best you 8 str D shoots from 4 destroyer missiles from each SS.

Any other option would be the usual crisis bomb but really vs AV14....you that much luck. Vs AV14 non super heavies prob melta will do the job but like i said superheavies not affected by melta shots.

Againts all other vehicles with low rear armor, OSC is the solution. 2 models of Ghostkeel as a unit in OSC formation will easily get the job done.

User avatar
Unicornsilovethem
Shas'Saal
Posts: 278

Re: How do you actually deal with AV14 ?

Post#13 » Apr 18 2017 12:49

azlanpower wrote:melta(which doesnt affect superheavies)

Sure it does. You may be referencing an old rule - some googling led me to a page from 2014 where they are saying that rule is no longer in effect - but in 7th no such blanket exception exists for Superheavies.

Return to “Archival Datacore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest