Challenges for Tau in Cities of Death

A review of past Tactics by commanders during the First, Second, Third & Fourth Phase Expansion.
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Quince25
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Post#73 » Jun 09 2006 06:56

I've created a thread in the rules section to discuss this jetpack movement further...
http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?p=20321#20321

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Afghan Jones
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Post#74 » Jun 12 2006 06:56

Hi Guys, jsut played my first COD game against black templars and it is seriously hard work against marines.

A unit of marines stuck in a medical facility (feel no pain) is nigh on impossible to shift. they will always be taking either armour or cover saves (cant negate both without lots of plasma/fusion coupled with several markerlight hits) plus the 4+ feel no pain save.

added to that the fact that the extra terrain means assault marines are a complete nightmare as its rare you will get LOS to them before they charge.

being fully mech'd up will help but when you need to clear MEQs out of a building (especially when thats the objective) tau really seem to struggle as they have no assault capabilities to speak of.

mont'ka
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Post#75 » Jun 12 2006 07:15

Afghan Jones wrote:but when you need to clear MEQs out of a building (especially when thats the objective) tau really seem to struggle as they have no assault capabilities to speak of.


I've played a few games now and although I was no doubt helped by the fact that it were all small games[either CP or 500pts regular] on 4'by 4'boards I actually found my Tau weren't to shabby at assaulting.I normally use 2 BC/FL/MT Crisis suits and 12 Kroot as my assault group, 2 x 6 Carabine warriors[incl Shas'ui] as support and a Sniper drone team as security.
Between them the [infiltrating] Kroot and the 2 Crisis suits seem to be able to clear a building quite effectively especially when "shot in" by the 12FW's/Sniper drones.
Obviously they must be assigned to a realistic goal[limited objective].
I tried to winkle out a 10 Necron warrior squad backed up by a Wraight from a med facility in one game and got a rightfull bloody nose.
Instead I should have shot up his 2 5man Flayed one squads first and then just kill enough Warriors to make him fade away.

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Markerlite
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Post#76 » Jun 12 2006 07:46

The interesting question I have come across in CoD is around skimmers and the sensor spines...
In the Cod Codex it states that skimmers are not allowed to enter buildings... is this over-ridden if the skimmer has a sensor spine? I would suggest yes, but I have no reasonable argument to support this apart from the fact the sensor spine appears to be tailor made for CoD...

Any idea's?
Markerlite
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mont'ka
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Post#77 » Jun 12 2006 07:55

I'd say no, can't see a skimmer actually moving into a building.
Sensor spines are more in the line of allowing the skimmer to fly through[lightly] wooded terrain or maybe trough obstructed streets but not inside buildings.

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Afghan Jones
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Post#78 » Jun 13 2006 02:46

sensor spines do seem tailor made for COD especially as the new codex was presumably written at the same time as the COD book (look on the inside front cover of the codex and a few other pictures, COD terrain in background)

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GodHead
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Post#79 » Jun 13 2006 02:52

No. I'd say not. Ruined Buildings are different entities from regular terrain. Sensor Spines allow you to enter regular terrain, but are still expressly forbidden from entering Ruined Buildings.

The wording in Cityfight is very clear, and would be totally unnecessary if Sensor Spines let you enter them, as there is no other way in 4th edition for any Skimmer to enter any kind of terrain... I had my hopes up until I read it myself. No Skimmers period.
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spmusubi
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Post#80 » Jun 14 2006 08:32

I dunno about that. "Whilst doing so, the vehicle does not hover above a terrain feature - instead, it is counted as actually moving through it." (Codex: Tau Empire, pg31)

Building ruins are a new type of terrain introduced in CoD, but I would say they are definitely terrain features. There really shouldn't be any problem moving your skimmers through ruins.

However, they still may not claim buildings, as it's specifically stated that "skimmers may not enter or occupy city ruins..." (CoD, pg9). Sensor Spines allow skimmers to enter ruins, but doesn't provide an exemption to the second part.

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GodHead
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Post#81 » Jun 15 2006 02:16

No. I would say being that "skimmers may not enter or occupy ruins..." would prevent them from entering ruins regardless of Sensor Spines.

It's too specific to be ignored.
Rules Lawyer.

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Dethray
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Post#82 » Jun 15 2006 03:49

GodHead wrote:No. I would say being that "skimmers may not enter or occupy ruins..." would prevent them from entering ruins regardless of Sensor Spines.

It's too specific to be ignored.


I am not too sure about that one. Did they say that Skimmers may not enter ruins but hover over them in the CoD book? If Skimmers hover over them, then Sensor spines work because sensor spines allow the user to move through a terrain feature instead of "hovering over" it.

To me it sounds more like general Skimmers cannot enter city ruins, but not necessarily true if you have the right equipment...

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GodHead
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Post#83 » Jun 15 2006 04:09

No, the general rule for all terrain is that Skimmers hover over it.

Sensor Spines counter that, allowing you to move into it, as a normal vehicle would.

Cities of Death expressly forbids vehicles from entering City Ruins.

What would be the point of forbidding it in Cities of Death if they didn't have things like Sensor Spines in mind? There is no other way for Skimmers to enter a terrain piece without special wargear like Sensor Spines, so that is exactly what they were trying to prevent.
Rules Lawyer.

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5thstreet
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Post#84 » Jun 15 2006 08:37

I was under the impression that codex/army specific rules over-ride those in general rule books. For example, according to the BBB you have to meet or exceed the armor value of a vehicle to get a result, but in the Necron codex any gauss weapon only needs a 6 no matter the strength. I'm sure there a hundred more examples like this.

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spmusubi
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Post#85 » Jun 15 2006 09:43

Yeah, specific rules override general ones. For example, models may not move through impassable terrain, which is a general rule. However, Tyranid flesh hooks and Eldar Pathfinders have specific rules that allow them to move through impassable terrain.

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Orange-Bell
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Post#86 » Jun 15 2006 10:23

...but you could argue that Cities of Death is a set of special rules that overrides another set of special rules.

That and it specifically says that skimmers may not enter city ruins. Seeing Tau vehicles are the only ones that can possibly do this, I think it is referring to them. After all, why would the rules forbid a Falcon from entering ruins if it can't normally?
O-B

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Dethray
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Post#87 » Jun 15 2006 11:10

GodHead wrote:What would be the point of forbidding it in Cities of Death if they didn't have things like Sensor Spines in mind? There is no other way for Skimmers to enter a terrain piece without special wargear like Sensor Spines, so that is exactly what they were trying to prevent.


Not too sure about them considering the Tau race that much, look elsewhere in this forum for a post I made about a CoD mission that is completely hopeless for the Tau :neutral:

Managed to check my rule books just now, and I agree with you. Skimmers can't enter ruins even with spines. But nonetheless it still beats taking all sorts of DTT for normal vehicles :roll:

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spmusubi
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Post#88 » Jun 15 2006 11:36

Orange-Bell wrote:...but you could argue that Cities of Death is a set of special rules that overrides another set of special rules.

That and it specifically says that skimmers may not enter city ruins. Seeing Tau vehicles are the only ones that can possibly do this, I think it is referring to them. After all, why would the rules forbid a Falcon from entering ruins if it can't normally?


The skimmers may not enter ruins isn't a specific rule though, it's a general one. It's phrased that "skimmers may not...". The specific rule is that a vehicle equipped with Sensor Spines may move through terrain.

This has me rather puzzled, honestly. The CoD rule that skimmers may not enter ruins is a clarification from the BGB.

"As such, skimmers ignore terrain altogether when they move." (BGB, pg 61) It doesn't say anywhere there that skimmers cannot enter terrain. It does state that they don't receive obscured target benefits as a normal vehicle would.

Straight out of the main rulebook, there's nothing saying that skimmers can't enter terrain. CoD adds on to the main rulebook in that skimmers cannot enter ruins. The Sensor Spines wargear supercedes this (specific over general) and allows equipped skimmers to enter ruins.

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rogue_rover
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Post#89 » Jul 02 2006 03:03

CoD also states, in the same bullet, that skimmers may not disembark troops into a ruin. Yet, if you have Rappelling Lines, you can override this general rule. Therefore, I would say that sensor spines also allow you to override this general rule for entering and occupying ruins.

I am getting ready to play a CoD for the first time, so I would like to hear how others faired using this rule.

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Afghan Jones
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Post#90 » Jul 05 2006 07:30

I've played a few different COD battles and the biggest challenges seem to be as follows.

1. Cover & armour saves on MEQ's - plasma/ion/fusion coupled with PF ML hits works well here.

2. Dreadnoughts - had trouble with lascannon toting dreads. They count as infantry for the terrain and its hard to get LOS on them with a railgun around the buildings. Chasing their rear armour with Dfish gundrones is an ok option here.

3. Assault marines. These are a flippin nighmare. The abundance of terrain means they will rarely be out in the open, and its easy peasy for the enemy to get them within charge range but out of LOS. These units have been the biggest problem for me so far.

4. what the hell is up with that total destruction mission????????? :(

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