Devilfish & Breacher Tactics

A review of past Tactics by commanders during the First, Second, Third & Fourth Phase Expansion.
Blade Runner
Shas'Saal
Posts: 63

Devilfish & Breacher Tactics

Post#1 » Oct 21 2016 08:32

A question about how a devilfish and Breacher team work together. Is it possible to have a devilfish hover up to an enemy unit, disembarked the Breachers, unloaded their killing power while staying in base contact with the devilfish, then reembark in the same turn?

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Jefffar
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 1016

Re: Devilfish & Breacher Tactics

Post#2 » Oct 21 2016 09:45

No. I recommend rereading the section on transports in the main rulebook.

But careful positioning of the Devilfish and it's drones can create cover/blockage from the retaliation of the enemy.

Ricordis
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 334

Re: Devilfish & Breacher Tactics

Post#3 » Oct 22 2016 01:59

I play with Breachers (9+ui+MV36) in a Devilfish (Point Defense + Sensor Spines) being part of a Hunter Contingent mainly against Astartes.

They act very well at clearing out victory points.
Wednesday my buddy blocked two VPs with Devastorsquads and Pods.
Turn 2: Get close, disembark Breachers and Drones. Combine Fire Devilfish, Breachers and Drones (thus 3 units) and get +1BS.
Devastors completely Annihilated.
Turn 3: Commander deep striking next to the breachers. Breachers in 12" range of the commander thus able to walk 6", run up to 6" and shoot with full BS. I did and annihilated another Devastor Squad.

Breachers are a highly surgical tool and no Khorne Berzerkers.

Blade Runner
Shas'Saal
Posts: 63

Re: Devilfish & Breacher Tactics

Post#4 » Oct 22 2016 09:44

That's a bad ass tip thanks Ricordis

tehlegend
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 524

Re: Devilfish & Breacher Tactics

Post#5 » Oct 22 2016 09:47

I liken breachers in a devilfish as the new FoF, except instead of moving and shooting for sustained damage over time, they excel as a Mont'ka unit. they shut down most monstrous creatures and MEq squads in one firing turn, at risk of exposure.

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Jefffar
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 1016

Re: Devilfish & Breacher Tactics

Post#6 » Oct 22 2016 04:43

The Breachers do a pretty good job adding some teeth to this editions Fish of Fury.

A multi Fish formation with a unit of Breachers and a couple of units of Strikers offers some interesting abilities. Unload all three at the first objective, then leave one unit of Strikers behind with a drone turret to control the objective/add fire support whole you go after another objective with the remaining Breachers and the second unit of Strikers.

Then, with the second objective taken, the Breachers along with three supporting Devilfish, can either go clean out a third objective or act as a mobile fire support/reinforcement for the Striker squads.

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CoffeeGrunt
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1122

Re: Devilfish & Breacher Tactics

Post#7 » Oct 22 2016 05:22

I run a squad with Darkstrider and Outflank them. They rarely struggle to find a target to assassinate once they come out, and can really worry my opponent in the long run, especially if I'm applying pressure to them.

Also I'd personally take a Disruption Pod over Sensor Spines + Point Defense, as Krak Grenades aren't the threat they used to be and PD only means you're snap-firing a Burst Cannon, and paying 10pts for the privilege. DPod keeps it alive and gives it a tasty 3+ Jink to make sure it gets to the fight, but tbh I just run it vanilla normally.

Bear in mind that if you take the 'Fish with Drones in the Hunter Cadre - the big Formation of Formations - you can scoot 6", disembark the Drones, and have Fish, Drones and Breachers all target the same squad for +1 BS, which is nice. Then go send the Drones off to harass things once the Breachers have cleaned house and are back aboard hunting the next target. :)

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AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 821

Re: Devilfish & Breacher Tactics

Post#8 » Oct 23 2016 05:52

I've been theorycrafting the applications of Breacher teams and they are a very difficult unit to justify. This is because they fall into the oh so familiar pitfall of "It's good, but I can get better units for the points".

Point Cost - This is the biggest concern with the unit. Your team has to be mobile, so giving a devilfish is almost a requirement. After upgrades, troop increases, etc, the squad itself comes close to 200pts. At that point you can start to argue "what else could I take instead?". You could find plenty of solutions to that question, most of which are often more durable and more shooty than the team itself.

Armament - The Breacher team has what is essentially a pulse rifle with an up-close and powerful 5in or less blast weapon. This is what makes them scary. Getting an enemy unit in range of that can melt MEQs. However, getting into range of the target itself is the biggest problem. They also lack ways to get close enough without help from another unit. More on that.

Survival - The edition of the guardian drone is what makes this unit durable. Having a 5++ save isn't amazing, but it's pretty damn good for normal rank and file infantry that are under 100pts. So while they can certainly take punishment, they are still on a rather weak statline. T3, 1W and 4+ saves still make them pretty weak for the job they are trying to do, which is getting as close to the enemy as possible.

They do have some benefits that could be applied though. As was mentioned, Darkstrider is a useful edition to this squad. It is possible to do some shenanigans with his outflank, and again with his special rules. It is important to remember though that the unit is still very immobile, which again, is the hardest part about this unit.

The Hunter Cadre / Hunter Contingent would probably be the best place to have this unit. As was mentioned the combined firepower special rule when used in conjunction with the devilfish, detatched gundrones, and breacher team, gives you BS4 (except for drones) for those three as well as ~24 S5 shots at the very least. However, this alone is not enough to make the unit do well IMO. You would have to make use of the Ambushes and Feints special rule from the Hunter Cadre so that they could get in range for their AP3 profile.

And there lies the problem. Without the AP3 profile you're better off taking a Strike Squad or something else. If you cannot reliably get in range to use that profile, the unit is almost a waste of points. Try it yourself in practice games or just with your own units on a table. Even with Ambushes and Feints, the Breacher team has a hard time getting into a solid shooting position to use that AP3 profile.
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

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CoffeeGrunt
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1122

Re: Devilfish & Breacher Tactics

Post#9 » Oct 24 2016 03:37

6" Devilfish move + 6" Disembark + 5" range.

If you can't make it work with a 17" threat range, you can't make anything work. :)

Ricordis
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 334

Re: Devilfish & Breacher Tactics

Post#10 » Oct 24 2016 04:22

Breachers are no allrounder tool. That's true.

In my case Breachers+MV36+Devilfish were perfect for hunting down Devastor Squads with Multi-Meltas.
Low Shot count with high AP: Perfect for sending in some 5++ Troops up and close.

Once a Dreadnought made a big mistake, ignored my Breachers in a Devilfish und turned his front against my Riptide. My Breachers went to the back and gave a load from their Blasters. 3 glances, 2 pens. My enemy simply underestimated the threat caused by some Breachers.

In both cases I was really happy having my Breachers. I think no other unit for the same point cost would have reached that.

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CoffeeGrunt
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1122

Re: Devilfish & Breacher Tactics

Post#11 » Oct 24 2016 05:21

I think people really underestimate how many things can be woefully torn-apart by a bucket full of S6 AP3 attacks. Light vehicles, rear armour, monstrous creatures, MEQ squads, there's little that they're not good against.

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Vector Strike
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 955

Re: Devilfish & Breacher Tactics

Post#12 » Oct 24 2016 07:02

S6 is overall good, no matter the AP (as eldar jetbikes taught us). The problem with Breachers is the range and delivery method.

Those tricks about outflanking them and destroying devastators/dreads are cool, but enemies will learn how to deal with them. Dealing with a Riptide is much more problematic, and they can rain destruction from 72"/36" range.

If only their weapon was 15" and S6 AP3 as its only mode...

---

To not keep only ranting, they work wonders in smaller battlefields, like Kill Team, Carnage and Zone Mortalis. Tables witha lot of impassable terrain are good for them too.

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CoffeeGrunt
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1122

Re: Devilfish & Breacher Tactics

Post#13 » Oct 24 2016 07:06

My opponents haven't managed to adapt to mine, yet. If they try and pound the Devilfish with Anti-Tank, they're just letting the Riptides move up with impunity.

In a multi-threat scenario, they're easy to overlook until they hit. It's keeping them alive to get back in the 'Fish that can be tough. :P

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imran_tauyab
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 128
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Re: Devilfish & Breacher Tactics

Post#14 » Oct 24 2016 09:01

I might be nit picking here but wouldn’t their effective distance be;

Vehicle Move – 6”
Disembark – 2”
Movement – 6”
Weapon Range – 5”

For a total of 19”?
Hailing from Sept Elsy'eir

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CoffeeGrunt
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1122

Re: Devilfish & Breacher Tactics

Post#15 » Oct 24 2016 09:16

Forgot that Disembarking =/= Movement, and that you get the extra 2". Either way it just reinforces my point that they have plenty of reach. :)

R.D.
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 552

Re: Devilfish & Breacher Tactics

Post#16 » Oct 24 2016 10:14

I've found Breachers are often useful as a 'reactive defence' against an enemy that comes to you, like Eldar, DE, drop-podding Marines, and so on. If you're anticipating that, hide them in a D-Fish tucked behind something in your line, and once that enemy comes, they jump out and blast them to bits, offering a good weight of fire for that AP that doesn't divert the long range of other units. Useful against things like Deathwatch.

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imran_tauyab
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
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Re: Devilfish & Breacher Tactics

Post#17 » Oct 24 2016 10:28

CoffeeGrunt wrote:Forgot that Disembarking =/= Movement, and that you get the extra 2". Either way it just reinforces my point that they have plenty of reach. :)


Which I totally agree with :D

Also, lets not forget that we can run and fire snap shots, which we can than buff using markerlights. So if we need that extra distance we can always score a couple of extra ML hits to make sure those snap shots hit.
Hailing from Sept Elsy'eir

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shasocastris
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
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Re: Devilfish & Breacher Tactics

Post#18 » Oct 24 2016 10:44

CoffeeGrunt wrote:Forgot that Disembarking =/= Movement, and that you get the extra 2". Either way it just reinforces my point that they have plenty of reach. :)

That's not how disembarking works in 7th. Disembarking is just moving, staying wholly within 6" of the vehicle (or whatever you roll on difficult terrain. See pg 81 of the rulebook.

(Note, the 2" is still used for *embarking*, just not *disembarking*.)

Cheers!

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