Coldstar Commander usage?

A review of past Tactics by commanders during the First, Second, Third & Fourth Phase Expansion.
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Overheal
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Re: Coldstar Commander usage?

Post#19 » Dec 21 2016 12:57

Does it benefit from anything in Death to the Skies?
"auto-include" like stormsurges or riptides.
It makes me sad because surges look like fat chickens and riptides are cool and should only be fielded once, anything more feels like cheezy spam. Model is a centerpiece in my collection, I put days into that paint up and its technically still not done :P

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Val'Sitsor
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Re: Coldstar Commander usage?

Post#20 » Dec 21 2016 02:27

Overheal wrote:Does it benefit from anything in Death to the Skies?


It can use lflyer ace table from white dwarf, IIRC.

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Panzer
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Re: Coldstar Commander usage?

Post#21 » Dec 21 2016 03:44

materpillar wrote:I don't think the rules are bad per say. The Coldstar Battlesuit is a really cool ruleset in my opinion. It adds an original and interesting unit to our codex. It performs decently enough in a more casual/fluff oriented setting. It's just not an exceptionally point efficient "auto-include" like stormsurges or riptides.

I kinda disagree there. Its rules have too many flaws (T4, no sig systems, fix weapons, point costs) to not be bad imo.
The idea was good and yes it is indeed interesting. And also yes in games where you would field Vespid, Railsides, Pathfinder with special weapons and Stealth Suits outside of formations it might do decently enough (but even there it performed underwhelming i found) but that doesn't change the fact that the rules are pretty bad.
There is an area between auto-include and bad and that's unfortunately not where the Coldstar is.

Val'Sitsor wrote:
Overheal wrote:Does it benefit from anything in Death to the Skies?


It can use lflyer ace table from white dwarf, IIRC.

Nop unfortunately not. Death from the Skies gave nothing to FMC. It's a 100% Flyer (vehicle) supplement.

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materpillar
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: Coldstar Commander usage?

Post#22 » Dec 21 2016 04:37

Panzer wrote:I kinda disagree there. Its rules have too many flaws (T4, no sig systems, fix weapons, point costs) to not be bad imo.
The idea was good and yes it is indeed interesting. And also yes in games where you would field Vespid, Railsides, Pathfinder with special weapons and Stealth Suits outside of formations it might do decently enough (but even there it performed underwhelming i found) but that doesn't change the fact that the rules are pretty bad.

There is an area between auto-include and bad and that's unfortunately not where the Coldstar is.

Compared to other HQ choices I think that area is right around where the coldstar suit falls. I'm not super familiar with the competitive scene but aren't the best HQ choices the ethereal (cause it's cheap) and the regular crisis HQ (cause its flexible)? Then Farsight, shadowsun and the cadre fireblade are pretty good but not really common in tournaments. These are followed by darkstrider and aun'va who are niche but not terrible. Lastly, Aun'shi who is just terrible.

I feel like the coldstar suit sits around in a similar category as darkstrider/aun'va. Where it's pretty niche but I don't feel bad running it.
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Val'Sitsor
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Re: Coldstar Commander usage?

Post#23 » Dec 21 2016 10:29

Panzer wrote:Nop unfortunately not. Death from the Skies gave nothing to FMC. It's a 100% Flyer (vehicle) supplement.


I didn't say "Death From the Skies", I said "White Dwarf". There were an addition around the time when flyer boardgame "Stormcloud attack" came out. They add "flyer ace" table for tyranids and other FMC as i recall

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Panzer
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Re: Coldstar Commander usage?

Post#24 » Dec 22 2016 01:28

Val'Sitsor wrote:
Panzer wrote:Nop unfortunately not. Death from the Skies gave nothing to FMC. It's a 100% Flyer (vehicle) supplement.


I didn't say "Death From the Skies", I said "White Dwarf". There were an addition around the time when flyer boardgame "Stormcloud attack" came out. They add "flyer ace" table for tyranids and other FMC as i recall

Ah right, I didn't read that right. Well at least in battlescribe and in onlinecodex he can't get flyer ace so I'd still say no to it regardless. :P

materpillar wrote:
Panzer wrote:I kinda disagree there. Its rules have too many flaws (T4, no sig systems, fix weapons, point costs) to not be bad imo.
The idea was good and yes it is indeed interesting. And also yes in games where you would field Vespid, Railsides, Pathfinder with special weapons and Stealth Suits outside of formations it might do decently enough (but even there it performed underwhelming i found) but that doesn't change the fact that the rules are pretty bad.

There is an area between auto-include and bad and that's unfortunately not where the Coldstar is.

Compared to other HQ choices I think that area is right around where the coldstar suit falls. I'm not super familiar with the competitive scene but aren't the best HQ choices the ethereal (cause it's cheap) and the regular crisis HQ (cause its flexible)? Then Farsight, shadowsun and the cadre fireblade are pretty good but not really common in tournaments. These are followed by darkstrider and aun'va who are niche but not terrible. Lastly, Aun'shi who is just terrible.

I feel like the coldstar suit sits around in a similar category as darkstrider/aun'va. Where it's pretty niche but I don't feel bad running it.


Afaik the Commander is the only one who gets used on actual serious tournaments because the utility of a Mark'O is simply unbeaten. Some odd ones still use Farsight for a DS bomb or Shadowsun for a mini-deathstar but usually not without an additional Commander.
Ethereals and the others are pretty rare outside of casual games. Maybe a Fireblade as cheap tax HQ that doesn't give a free VP like the Ethereal but that's it.

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Overheal
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Re: Coldstar Commander usage?

Post#25 » Dec 22 2016 11:28

The Mark'O seems somewhat disadvantaged in cost now to a VX-01 Net. Just given that the drones are more survivable, shoot better and you can take more of them in exchange for the commander's points and they don't make a single target. Add to that, a buffmander is the most boring way I can think of to use a commander, even if it makes 'sense' to. So I have no idea what I'm going to do with this commander on the field :( this is why I've slowly worked my way around painting any crisis suits, short of a few things and nice extras the army is all done, but I haven't any inspiration as to how to use my commander and suits.

Or as someone suggested in the A&F thread, would a coldstar work best staying within 12" of a fast vehicle formation to benefit the Ambushes & Feints rule?

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Panzer
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Re: Coldstar Commander usage?

Post#26 » Dec 22 2016 01:03

The Drone-Net is very good as well. The main thing it offers compared to a Mark'O though is redundancy and intercepting markerlights while the Commander gives BS5 Markerlights. One offers more utility, the other is more straight forward. Both are good in their own way. ;)

To be honest there aren't a lot of things we can do with a Commander tbh. Coldstar is one thing. Mark'O or Buff'O the two really good ones. Then there is the Fusion Blade one....what's left? Shooting?
He has the same weapons as other Crisis which we can easily buff to BS5 as well so that's not very interesting and there isn't much else we could give him utility wise that wouldn't result in a Mark'O/Buff'O...or a very gimmicky loadout that isn't doing much in the end.

The Commander is very good with specific loadouts. But he is also very limited in what we can do with him to make him actually useful so if you aren't interested in a Mark'O, Fusion Blades or Coldstar there isn't really a point in taking him over a cheap Fireblade or one of the named Characters imo.

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Aldarion
Shas'La
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Re: Coldstar Commander usage?

Post#27 » Jan 16 2017 09:58

Well. in my experience using Coldstar:

- he is not as easy to kill that we thing: i play few battles and never he died (using shield and stims)
- he is a tremendous distraction and an apetitive objective: that makes him a perfect bait for any ambush do you want to make (like an horde of flanking kroots, or deepstrike crisis comming from the sky)
- is an excelent anti aircraft and interceptor: because his mobility, he can chase every flyer or deepstriking units if you put interceptor. this was work very fine to me.
- put two colstar, one in each side of the table and you would split the attencion of your opponent so bad: i play with two Coldstar and a couple of riptides in the middle, and my opponent must thing very bad where to put his attention. he choose my riptides, then, coldstars makes very good job killing target units.


i really love coldstar, and i thing GW makes a good unit, but with T5 it would be perfect.
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Panzer
Shas'Saal
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Re: Coldstar Commander usage?

Post#28 » Jan 16 2017 01:54

Eh. My opponents tend to simply ignore the Coldstar if i gave him shield and stim. 6 S5 AP5 and 2 S7 AP4 shots is no real threat in a Tau army. If i give him something else (like Drone Controller or EWO or whatever) I have to be REALLY careful or it's just an easy warlord kill for the enemy. No stim means you only rely on a 3+ armor or 4++ which is not really tanky at all. No shield means you can take a lot of small arms fire easily but you'd have to jink against anything with AP1-3 because you really don't want to risk falling from the sky with T4.

A Mark'O or even a Buff'O have so much more impact if played right.

That being said a Coldstar with Drone Controller and 2 Markerlight Drones is still fun and okay-ish in casual games. Just need to be pretty careful where you land and you unfortunately can't afford a target lock or else you would sacrifice all survivability. I definitely do plan to play two of those against friends from time to time just because it's so exotic and the Coldstar is awesome model and fluff wise....even if not rules-wise unfortunately.

ChazzAtron
Shas'Saal
Posts: 8

Re: Coldstar Commander usage?

Post#29 » Apr 01 2017 01:26

I was curious and tried out the Coldstar Commander. It was a 4 person team game at 500pts each - Tau and Necron vs Eldar and Grey Knights.

The GKs stayed in reserve... I mean, they STAYED until they auto came in, which really made the game lopsided. The Eldar had cover behind buildings and used a Fire Prism to go after stuff, but they didn't have a chance.

My Coldstar Commander swooped up and nailed a Guardian Squad, running it off the board. He then swooped behind the Fire Prism and took it out with his High Output Burst Cannon (too close for missiles, he switched to guns ;) ). Then he swooped to the other Guardian Squad but they made their leadership check and stayed put. Only after all of this did the GKs show up, but after failing to hit my jinking Devilfish, we decided to call the game. My commander could have just went back to gliding and gunned down the remaining Guardians and the Farseerer, but we figured at that point it was just too painful to play out.

This was only really possible because at the low points, no one had flyers or skyfire. I did put a shield generator and stims on the commander in case someone got a lucky shot off, but even then it was a pretty one sided example.

I think there are some things that the Coldstar might be ok at (like swooping behind tanks for rear armor shots/placing a banana in their tail pipe), but the cost along with lack of customization and squishiness (1 wound while swooping could equal death!), I don't think it's overall worth it.

Fun maybe, but 1 flyer, skyfire weapon, or lucky lasgun is going to drop a lot of points out of the sky.
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