Commander joining a deep-striking broadside team

A review of past Tactics by commanders during the First, Second, Third & Fourth Phase Expansion.
eRa
Shas'Saal
Posts: 9

Commander joining a deep-striking broadside team

Post#1 » Jan 03 2017 05:34

Hey there!

I'm currently adding a retaliation cadre to my tau army, and I thought of something:

Is it worth it to add my commander to the broadside team? Here's what I'm thinking:

For a 1500pt army:

Commander - TL, VRT, 2 weapons (not sure which yet, either 2 PRs or CiBs), iridium armor, PEC, NSJ, onager gauntlet, 2 shield drones
-196

XV88 broadside team (3) - [TL] x2, [EWO], 6 missile drones
-282

XV8 crisis team (1) - [FB, TL FB]
-57

XV8 crisis team (1) - [FB, TL FB]
-57

XV8 crisis team (?) - [not sure about this squad's loadout, but definitely double plasma]
-

XV104 riptide team (1) - [IA, EWO]
-190


I'd be deep-striking to make use of the special rule. What the commander brings to the broadside team is really nice: tank hunters, hit&run (allowing for me to be a bit more aggressive with my deep strike location), 2 shield drones as well as his own survivability. There are of course downsides as well: no bs5 marker drones, a combined unit cost of almost 500pts and I'll be hurting a lot on turn 1.

I was thinking of running this as a hunter contingent, so I'd probably go msu with the hunter cadre to make best use of the special rules, and use the mandatory second commander to buff some marker drones.

Thoughts?

Edit: I failed to mention, but the xv88s have hymp of course.
Last edited by eRa on Jan 03 2017 11:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Denirosek
Por'La
Por'La
Posts: 57

Re: Commander joining a deep-striking broadside team

Post#2 » Jan 03 2017 07:27

Hello :) Unfortunately, this won't work as well as you'd want it to, besides, imho, you'll be wasting your Commander. To prove my point:

a) You already have all the weapons on a Broadside twin-linked. Wouldn't it be better to have them twin-linked on the Crisis Suits as well?

b)You're thinking about picking a relatively short-ranged weapons like Plasma Rifles and Cyclic Ion Blaster in addidtion to a not-that-mobile long-ranged team. While it isn't something that's inherently wrong, it might be problematic in the game itself because of the range difference.

c)Even with Vectored Rethro-Thrusters your Broadsides Team won't be that mobile, and with your Commander there (and presumably Warlord as well), it'll be an easy target for your opponnent's AP2 weaponry. Unless you take them down immidieately after dropping your Retaliation Cadre and pray they don't have Interceptor, you're making your already high-priority target a top-priority one.

d)The worst bubble burst of my comment - Puretide Engram Neurochip works only on a model, not his unit, as the rule says "This model haas that rule until the start of his next Movement phase". So no, your Broadsides won't have the Tank-Hunter special rule. However, you might consider taking the Retaliation as a Core Formation in a Dawn Blade Contingent, where you have the Killing Blow special roll, allowing you to reroll failed Penetration and Glancing hits against an opponnent's vehicle (or gain shred against non-vehicle unit). And your Broadsides can pick shield drones by themselves, you don't need a Commander to do so.

To sum it up, a Commander is unnecessary in your Broadsides Team in order to make it an effective unit, while it can improve your Crisis Suit squads to an extent much greater than you could hope with the Broadsides. The only thing a Commander would be of any use in Broadsides Team, apart from being additional 4 wounds, would be for his ignores cover MSSS, but given you can do that with just two Markerlights, it's simply not worth it.
Prosper, as Tau shall.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3064

Re: Commander joining a deep-striking broadside team

Post#3 » Jan 03 2017 08:13

I need to chip in here.
The PEN buffs are ones that get transfered to the whole unit. Just read up on them in the BRB.

However I agree with the rest of your arguments. Broadsides don't benefit as much from a Buff'O as Crisis would so instead of possibly two dangerous units (if taking the Buff'O in a Crisis unit along with the Broadsides) you'd only have one slightly more dangerous unit.

eRa
Shas'Saal
Posts: 9

Re: Commander joining a deep-striking broadside team

Post#4 » Jan 03 2017 08:20

Thanks for the reply, you make a good point regarding the range discrepancy. What if I gave the commander 2 MPs and used the squad to control the midfield?

Straight up AP2 shouldnt be a massive issue since I can look out sir, but AP2 blasts definitely will.

PEC only gives TH to the model, true, but I believe any IC that has TH also gives it to the unit he joins (like hit&run), so I think they would get TH. And TH is really good on the 'many S7 shots' units. I don't have my rulebook atm so I could be wrong.

The general idea is that my plasma crisis suits use the markerlight hits, so they shouldnt need the TL/ignore cover from the CCN/NS3.

I kinda dislike the buffmander build, as a shas'vre is a lot cheaper and can do the same thing (minus the iridium). But I guess since I have to take a commander I might as well.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3064

Re: Commander joining a deep-striking broadside team

Post#5 » Jan 03 2017 08:48

eRa wrote:Thanks for the reply, you make a good point regarding the range discrepancy. What if I gave the commander 2 MPs and used the squad to control the midfield?

Straight up AP2 shouldnt be a massive issue since I can look out sir, but AP2 blasts definitely will.

PEC only gives TH to the model, true, but I believe any IC that has TH also gives it to the unit he joins (like hit&run), so I think they would get TH. And TH is really good on the 'many S7 shots' units. I don't have my rulebook atm so I could be wrong.

The general idea is that my plasma crisis suits use the markerlight hits, so they shouldnt need the TL/ignore cover from the CCN/NS3.

I kinda dislike the buffmander build, as a shas'vre is a lot cheaper and can do the same thing (minus the iridium). But I guess since I have to take a commander I might as well.


Okay first: you can Look Out Sir! blasts as well. It just determines how many hits go on that unit. ;)
However AP2 is still a problem since Broadsides are expensive and can't jump behind cover like Crisis can do. So while it would be a problem anyway joining them a Commander would make them just a that much tastier target for the opponents AP2 weapons which he otherwise would have to split between a unit with the Iridium Commander and the Broadsides.

Yes the PEN buffs get transfered to the unit as I said before. Doesn't even have to be an IC. Any model with Tank Hunter would be enough to transfer it to the other models as well.



So you want a semi-Buff'O with just the PEN and some weapons + survivability? Okay so we only have to conecentrate on the PEN buffs.
Now the question is how much would a unit with massive S7 spam benefit from the different PEN buffs? Well I used to have him in a unit of 3 Crisis with CIB and TL FB (so 9 S7 shots and 3 TL S8 AP1 shots) and i felt it was often overkill and it put a massive target above their heads so they rarely survived more than 1-2 turns.
Your Broadside unit has 24 S7 shots even. I doubt they'll need Tank Hunter to glance any vehicle to death. ;)

Counter-Attack? That won't save them against any serious melee attack either.
Furious Chrage? Haha yeah.....no. :D
Monster Hunter? Same issue as with Tank Hunter above.
Stubborn? Well it has its uses but nothing i'd build my list around.

Maybe it'd make a bit more sense with HRR Broadsides...but even with that they are probably not as good as ordinary HYMP Broadsides. :roll:

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Unicornsilovethem
Shas'Saal
Posts: 278

Re: Commander joining a deep-striking broadside team

Post#6 » Jan 03 2017 12:33

Attaching a buffmander to a deepstriking Broadside team can work extremely well if the enemy is packing a lot of juicy AV10 back armor vehicles. With 6 Drones and Target Lock on all the Broadsides, you are shooting high-accuracy S7 shots at 4 different targets. The Broadsides are already twinlinked but gain Ignores Cover on the HYMP. Your biggest benefit is with the drones, who now dish out 12 BS3 (on the first turn), Twinlinked, Ignores Cover, Tank Hunters S7 shots. All of this equals a lot of dead tanks.

Your commander won't be shooting except in Overwatch, so give him a double flamer.

Kindrin
Shas'Saal
Posts: 185

Re: Commander joining a deep-striking broadside team

Post#7 » Jan 03 2017 09:45

You should consider a commander with stim injectors, shield generator and iridium armour to tank the shots for your three broadsides. You can play around with giving the commander two missile pods or two fusion blasters and still include the PEN to buff your entire squad. Give your broadsides target locks if you wish to go after two targets.

I've used this loadout successfully many times. The trick is to place your commander on an angle to receive as much of the incoming fire as possible.

Drop the shield drones unless you really have nowhere else to spend the points.

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