What all does Interceptor hit?

A review of past Tactics by commanders during the First, Second, Third & Fourth Phase Expansion.
TheDragonsDen
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 12

What all does Interceptor hit?

Post#1 » Feb 19 2017 06:01

Hey there, another small question. Weapons or models with the interceptor rule hit what all things? Deep strike, outflank, reserves coming in on the opponents table edge, infiltrators, summoned units (demon like) and what else am I forgetting?

Also, do smart missle pods need LOS to intercept, even though they are homing and do not require LOS to hit?

Thanks again guys.

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Unusualsuspect
Kroot'Ui
Kroot'Ui
Posts: 596

Re: What all does Interceptor hit?

Post#2 » Feb 19 2017 06:55

I don't believe Interceptor has any effect on Infiltrators, as they are placed on the table before the game begins, rather than arriving"from Reserve"...

But generally, if something arrives from Reserve, or is "treated as" arriving from Reserve, then Interceptor applies.

As for the SMS, since the order of application is not explicit either way, I'd argue that you would not need LoS to the target, because even though both Interceptor and Homing are special exceptions to the rule, the default preference is that the Codex trumps the Core.

I can see and understand the other side of the argument, however - the Homing special rule is intended to apply to the normal shooting rules, while Interceptor is an exception to the normal shooting rules and explicitly calls out LoS as a necessity. Still, I'm inclined towards allowing it, given the default presumptions and the lack of a "regardless of other rules" clause in Interceptor.

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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 385

Re: What all does Interceptor hit?

Post#3 » Feb 20 2017 12:50

I think it's pretty clear interceptor SMS don't need LoS. Interceptor rule states that a weapon can be fired if the targetted unit is within it's range and LoS. The weapon's LoS. That is a differentiation for vehicle weapons, as the weapon that has interceptor rule should actualy have LoS, not some other weapon have LoS so you fire the interceptor one which doesn't. It follows normal LoS shooting rules, there's no extra LoS requirement.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: What all does Interceptor hit?

Post#4 » Feb 20 2017 01:35

You can shoot at anything that comes from the reserves. That should be 100% clear tbh.

And no SMS doesn't need LoS to use interceptor.

Bolter&Rail
Shas'Saal
Posts: 78

Re: What all does Interceptor hit?

Post#5 » Feb 21 2017 04:41

you can only fire at things that arrive from reserves during the enemy movement phase since interceptor specifically says it is fired at the end of the enemy's movement. This prevents you from firing at summoned units because that doesnt happen in the movement phase.

As Panzer stated, it's just what comes from reserves (deep strike, flyers, outflanking models etc.)

Regarding SMS I have mixed thoughts on it since it does say the weapon needs LoS to fire interceptor, but obviously SMS says it doesnt need SMS. I tend to say SMS does in fact need LoS and in practice your SMS isn't going to kill much coming in from reserves anyway (but that is obviously situational)...

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: What all does Interceptor hit?

Post#6 » Feb 21 2017 05:14

Bolter&Rail wrote:you can only fire at things that arrive from reserves during the enemy movement phase since interceptor specifically says it is fired at the end of the enemy's movement. This prevents you from firing at summoned units because that doesnt happen in the movement phase.

As Panzer stated, it's just what comes from reserves (deep strike, flyers, outflanking models etc.)

Regarding SMS I have mixed thoughts on it since it does say the weapon needs LoS to fire interceptor, but obviously SMS says it doesnt need SMS. I tend to say SMS does in fact need LoS and in practice your SMS isn't going to kill much coming in from reserves anyway (but that is obviously situational)...

I disagree on the SMS. I'd argue that a special rule from a codex unit goes over a special rule from the BRB. The shooting phase also says you need LoS to shoot something and nobody would say you can't shoot without LoS with the SMS in your shooting phase. ;)

Bolter&Rail
Shas'Saal
Posts: 78

Re: What all does Interceptor hit?

Post#7 » Feb 21 2017 06:56

The argument I have heard against SMS being allowed to intercept things out of LoS is that the intercepting shooting attack is only triggered if the reserved unit is within LoS from the intercepting model. Meaning while yes SMS can ignore LoS for a shooting attack, under the ways the intercept rule is written your [riptide] only gets to have a shooting attack if it has LoS.

Tried to put more concisely: So while SMS ignores LoS while shooting it only gets the opportunity to shoot in intercept if it has LoS....haha

I don't have the BrB in front of me but the difference may be that for the shooting phase I believe you nominate a unit to make a shooting attack and then you check range/LoS. SMS just gets to ignore the LoS check. The above argument is saying that the given riptide in that situation never gets to declare a shooting attack and thereby allow it to use the SMS Homing special rule in the first place.

Its a weird one and I have questions regarding LoS and intercept as you can see from my other article post in this forum regarding ITC's definition of LoS and intercept. End of story I wouldnt call it clearly wrong to play it either way, but my local gaming/tourny scene require LoS unfortunately :-(

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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 385

Re: What all does Interceptor hit?

Post#8 » Feb 22 2017 12:14

But that would mean you couldn't shoot SMS on units out of LoS in shooting phase either.

In our codex, Homing rule states: SMS can be fired at targets out of the unit's line of sight.

This is the shooting sequence from rulebook:
1) pick a shooting unit
2) pick a target that is in LoS
3-6) select a weapon, resolve hits/wounds/etc.
7) repeat 3-6 for other weapons

From this you can see that in order to shoot SMS in shooting phase to a unit out of LoS, it skips the LoS requirement in the first place. If it didn't, the only way to shoot SMS on a unit that's out of LoS would be selecting another unit as a primary shooting target and using Target Lock.

Besides having to shoot only units that just arrived fron reserve with weapons that have interceptor rules, it does not have any added restrictions over normal shooting phase, And even if it had, homing would skip that too since codex trumps rulebook.

Bolter&Rail
Shas'Saal
Posts: 78

Re: What all does Interceptor hit?

Post#9 » Feb 22 2017 01:32

Thank you for listing shooting sequence (i didnt have on me).

What I am saying is that the Homing rule from our codex allows us to manipulate steps 2-3 you listed above (we select a unit out of LoS and fire with SMS), but that assumes step 1 already was allowed to happen. During a normal shooting phase step 1 happens because its your shooting phase and that's simple enough. The way intercept is worded people can claim step 1 doesnt get to happen unless the model can see the target and is allowed to make a shooting attack.

So I agree if a [riptide] is allowed to make a shooting attack then the SMS allows you to ignore step 2, but intercept only activates a [riptides] shooting if the [riptide] "saw" a model come in from reserves. You are not allowed to utilize the Homing special rule to ignore LoS unless your model is allowed to make a shooting attack in the first place.

I guess this argument falls apart if it's a Stormsurge intercepting and there is a deep-striking unit that is within LoS and one without. This would mean the Stormsurge is allowed to intercept and could declare targets against both deep-striking units and fire the SMS against the one outside of LoS....huh

Luckily SMS is unlikely to change the tide against most things deepstriking against us Tau, but you never know and if you about to take a punch you mind-as-well fire every weapon you can. But the way I have encountered tournament players using intercept the tau model only gets to declare a shooting attack to activate the shooting sequence if it can see something in the first place... (another way around this logic would be see something walk on from reserves well out of range, but then SMS a deep striking unit that is out of LoS nearby)

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: What all does Interceptor hit?

Post#10 » Feb 22 2017 01:36

Bolter&Rail wrote:Thank you for listing shooting sequence (i didnt have on me).

What I am saying is that the Homing rule from our codex allows us to manipulate steps 2-3 you listed above (we select a unit out of LoS and fire with SMS), but that assumes step 1 already was allowed to happen. During a normal shooting phase step 1 happens because its your shooting phase and that's simple enough. The way intercept is worded people can claim step 1 doesnt get to happen unless the model can see the target and is allowed to make a shooting attack.

But to claim that step 1 can't happen because of LoS you'd have to do step 2 before step 1 (or do step 2 twice which is even more ridiculous)..and there the Homing Special rule comes into play again. As soon as you have to check for LoS you look at the Homing rule and see..oh! you can ignore LoS requirements!
It's really easy as that. Stop overthinking it. :D

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